This would fly with me if this was a 0.25/0.25 game. Not 2/5. Unless everyone at the table is comfortable with losing a couple thousand a night, I would insist on seat draws to keep things fresh and reduce the risk of collusion.
Poll: Are Brad & Don colluding? (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Taghkanic
- Start date
dkersey
Straight
I think the host is just trying to minimize his risk (be in position) against a known winning (assuming aggressive) player.
Drawing for seats would be preferred but not a deal breaker for me...but I would definitely watch them for how often they both play in the same hands.
Drawing for seats would be preferred but not a deal breaker for me...but I would definitely watch them for how often they both play in the same hands.
LeLe
4 of a Kind
I always have a fixed seat number 6 in my home game which also happen to be my lucky seat and will let the rest to draw for seats
And my wife will always be in seat 7 whenever she joined us in our casual game. So ya, I don’t think it that uncommon for 2 person to have fixed seats
And my wife will always be in seat 7 whenever she joined us in our casual game. So ya, I don’t think it that uncommon for 2 person to have fixed seats
OP
OP
Yes, he’s very good. One of the tougher ones in the game. I don’t think he has had a losing session in months. But anyway not at all the kind to react to a loss that way.
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Totally could be true, and the most likely hypothesis yet. People usually like picking the seats left of me bc I’m more aggressive preflop. Doesn’t bother me. My players like picking seats and it’s a loyalty reward factor for them coming back.
But that is also why I bounce back and forth between the 3 seat and 9/10 seat.
OP
OP
I think the host has the right to sit where it is convenient. I do that to be near the chips. But the rest ought to be random (which effectively makes the host’s seat random as well).
I play in some games where it is first come, first seated. I don’t have a problem with players picking their spot in that case. It can encourage early arrivals. Just no seat reservations.
And again, I don’t think there is a wrong answer. Draw seat / Pick seats. Both are great. I’m just trying to relay how common and NOT standard it is to pick your seat.
But to assume people that pick the same seats by friends are cheaters, with no hand data or examples at all, is a bit much. Good discussion @Taghkanic
But to assume people that pick the same seats by friends are cheaters, with no hand data or examples at all, is a bit much. Good discussion @Taghkanic
FDLmold
Royal Flush
Random from a bag, 1-10. So if I sit and draw 8, if you draw 9,10,1 you’re to my left, 5,6,7 to my right, and so on. I play cash and people arrive at different times. I never move, but sometimes 4 and 6 sit next to each other, the new guy draws the 5, and we spend 30 seconds moving a bit so #5 can be the meat in the 4-6 sandwich. But it’s perfectly random and just the way I like it.
I would privately say something to the host, to the affect of, it was brought up you guys always sit beside each other they asked if I thought it was questionable, just thought you should know, maybe change up the seating?
That being said, I sit in a particular seat because of the arrangement of furniture and as the bank the chips are out of the way, and there is a guy that likes to sit in the 10 seat.
You also didn't mention the game, so I'll assume MPH (Monkeys Playing Hold'em), in PLO there are other strategies for wanting to sit on someone's right, which would be in line with a tighter bankroll.
Cash Game, drawling for a seat is odd, I am incentivized to show up early to pick my seat.
That being said, I sit in a particular seat because of the arrangement of furniture and as the bank the chips are out of the way, and there is a guy that likes to sit in the 10 seat.
You also didn't mention the game, so I'll assume MPH (Monkeys Playing Hold'em), in PLO there are other strategies for wanting to sit on someone's right, which would be in line with a tighter bankroll.
Cash Game, drawling for a seat is odd, I am incentivized to show up early to pick my seat.
I joined a weekly game a few months ago. Host always sits in the same place for ease of access to chips/bank, kitchen, and bar.
I always sit in the same spot a couple seats to his left, mainly because I'm a big guy, and it's a comfortable seat that is easy to get in and out of. Several other players also seem to have preferred seats for whatever reasons, but I don't suspect anyone in this game of collusion.
I think this is normal for many home games. That said, one player recently asked the host if we could start drawing for seats. It was no problem, with the obvious exception that host's seat is reserved.
I’m almost always the organizer and chip supplier and therefore de facto banker, but I don’t have the room at my place to host. So usually the physical host has priority seating, then I pick the best seat to have access to the chips and spreadsheet on a laptop to track ins and outs. Sometimes the host will defer to my choice for logistical purposes, or vice versa if host is also wrangling food.
Other players fill in seats as they please, no drawing, and then we draw for first dealer. This is a group that’s played together, some folks for 2 decades, I’ve been in the group for a dozen years. Works for us, but I don’t think anyone would object to drawing for seats, accounting for my logistical needs.
Other players fill in seats as they please, no drawing, and then we draw for first dealer. This is a group that’s played together, some folks for 2 decades, I’ve been in the group for a dozen years. Works for us, but I don’t think anyone would object to drawing for seats, accounting for my logistical needs.
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OP
OP
I think my friend’s suspicions were raised by the fact that he was prevented from picking the seat to the right of the host.
OP
OP
It’s 2/5 Hold ’Em cash for the first few hours, then it moves to a rotation of NLHE/PLO/PLO8.
OP
OP
Is there a reason your wife is always to your left?
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
I can totally understand having a conversation with the host and asking about this lil tradition, you're right, it could be some kind of cheating.
But I would be really put off I knew one of my players was accusing me of cheating because I like to sit next to my friend, and asking internet strangers how to handle it rather than just talking to me.
But I would be really put off I knew one of my players was accusing me of cheating because I like to sit next to my friend, and asking internet strangers how to handle it rather than just talking to me.
OP
OP
1. Per the OP, I didn't notice or raise it. My friend did. I thought he raised an interesting and valid question, which happened to be exactly the kind of thing people debate in this section of PCF.
2. Given how touchy some here seem to be about the topic, without even being regs in this particular game, I think that kinda validates the idea that it’s much better to think such questions through first, rather than jumping straight into confronting the host.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
100% understandable. 1, didnt mean for that to seem accusatory, just my perspective. Its definitely a good discussion and Im learning from reading it.
2. Yeah the strong feelings are surprising lol, didnt know there was such stances held. Oh well, broadening what I know. I dont mean confronting the host I just mean a conversation. Im not in the camp of 'testing' them by sitting there.
She’s better with her right hand? (Sorry, bad joke.)
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Drawing for seats in a cash game is a thing? I’ve never seen it
I swear I don’t cheat guys!!!!
Or you’re just bad at it? (Yelling “Booyah Booyah!” every time doesn’t help…)
Outstanding.
When I host we always draw seats for pretty much the same reason. Also changes up the dynamic from session to session.
Always having to sit beside your "best friend" seems a bit childish to me anyway... lame. Especially for a 2/5 game. To me that is rather large stakes where even the appearance of impropriety should be avoided.
Whether they are or not, unless you draw for seats, someone -- and certainly any new player -- will always have that question on his mind.
Or wonder if they're holding hands under the table...
Or wonder if they're holding hands under the table...
ekricket
Royal Flush
Maybe it’s not hands.
Maybe they are exchanging chips or cards.
Maybe Don just likes how Brads hair smells
FWIW, the regular players in our cash games almost always sit in the same seats each session. No one ever gives it a second thought.
OP
OP
What would happen if you sat in someone else’s customary place before they arrived?
ninedeuce
Two Pair
Going to assume @Taghkanic, that you, too, are a winning player in this game, and wish to keep playing there (and thus, keep it alive).
If you want to keep this game light and loose (and profitable) think the last thing you want to do is suggest drawing for seats.
First of all, it adds a bunch of complications. Do you only draw for first X players? Or for everyone who's indicated they'll show?
Just like what happens in classrooms without assigned seats, or open offices without assigned seats, is that folks pretty quickly pick spots and stick with them. Nothing to do with collusion, everything to do with human nature.
Add in the fact that these guys are good friends for decades and of course they might like to sit next to each other.
Healthy, lucrative cash games are delicate organisms, like orchids lol. You need to put in a bit of effort to keep them healthy, and it's not hard to inadvertently kill them off! Suggesting picking seats is not the way to go. If they are colluding somehow, they'll still find a way to do it, and if they aren't, you've suggested making the game more complicated/annoying, and possibly insinuated you don't trust how things have been run up until now.
If you want to keep this game light and loose (and profitable) think the last thing you want to do is suggest drawing for seats.
First of all, it adds a bunch of complications. Do you only draw for first X players? Or for everyone who's indicated they'll show?
Just like what happens in classrooms without assigned seats, or open offices without assigned seats, is that folks pretty quickly pick spots and stick with them. Nothing to do with collusion, everything to do with human nature.
Add in the fact that these guys are good friends for decades and of course they might like to sit next to each other.
Healthy, lucrative cash games are delicate organisms, like orchids lol. You need to put in a bit of effort to keep them healthy, and it's not hard to inadvertently kill them off! Suggesting picking seats is not the way to go. If they are colluding somehow, they'll still find a way to do it, and if they aren't, you've suggested making the game more complicated/annoying, and possibly insinuated you don't trust how things have been run up until now.
OP
OP
Great post, I agree with pretty much everything.
The one thing I find unconvincing in several replies is this odd idea that good friends want/need to sit next to each other at a single-table game.
Are we 9 years old?
It’s not like it’s some gigantic table in a huge public space with a bunch of strangers. The game’s in a private home, in a modest room.
We all can see and hear each other well. Everyone is close to each other, relatively speaking.
The players are adults 35-65 years old. Who at those ages needs to sit next to their best friend every single time, like some kid in 4th grade?
IDGI
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ninedeuce
Two Pair
Yeah, I hear you. I guess I'm thinking of it like this. It sounds like them sitting like this every time is a symbiotic relationship -- Don gets position on the most aggressive player in the game, Brad gets the advantage of a straightforward (too tight/passive?) player to his left and while I never need to sit next to my best friend at the poker table, I have a better time when I do.
To be clear, the setup might not be "innocent" of any poker strategic considerations for each of them, but it's far from collusion.
Also, jealous that you have a regular 2/5 game to go to!
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