Tourney Adding Player mid-game, similar to Re-buys. (1 Viewer)

[DesiBoyz]

Hello PCF Family,
i know this must have been asked before.. but did a quick search and didn't find anything in the first few pages.

Story Behind the question:
one of my friend host a poker tournament game once a month at his house (no limit texas hold'em).. we are all noobs when it comes to poker and we all are learning.. and i'm the one taking care of researching parts and making poker more fun, learn new stuff and explain it to them.. we love to have so many chips(50chips each), our starting stack in 5000 with every denomination imaginable and blind starts at 10-20 and changes every 20 mins... with breaks after 4-5 levels for snacks and colouring up. We usually have 8-10 people
For our next tournament my friend have 14 people who wants to play and i recommended hosting two table side by side, so we can see how it goes and to know the pro's and con's of hosting two table. but my friend only want to do it on one table just to try thing out and he was thinking when one player go out, a new player can do a buy in and join the seat.

i know most people here prefer only to have rebuys until first break ...which makes total sense to me. My question is to those who believes unlimited rebuys at any point of the game.

Here's my question:
the blind starts at 10-20 at level 1... before first break the blinds go 75-150(level5).
so lets say i'm at level 10 where the blinds are 500-1000 and two people get eliminated.

How can someone do a rebuy or somebody new joins a table with starting stack of 5000..new person will only get 5-BB in the game and i consider it wont be fair to those person.

Those people who believe rebuys can be purchased anytime of the game.. are those for Cash Game only ?

one of the option i'm thinking is when the player get eliminated and new one is ready to join the game, just ask the top 3 player for their chip count and do a average and give new player that much stack.

Sorry if it doesn't make much sense ..
On a side note... unrelated to this topic... what are show'em poker chips used for ?

 

[Colquhoun]

14 people tournament, one table, and when one person gets knocked out another person buys-in? This is a really REALLY bad idea.
If I knock someone out, they should be gone, not another person popping up in their place. And like you said, that new person is at a disadvantage getting there late in the game.

And rebuys at any time throughout the entire tournament? Please don’t do this. It could be the never-ending poker game. The only time it will get down to 2 players is when everyone else has exhausted all their cash? No one can be knocked out until they decide they’re not buying in anymore? Awful.

Imagine this scenario using those rules:
10 people are playing and 4 people waiting to join the tournament. Those 10 playing keep getting knocked out and buying in, all the while the blinds keep going up. I would hate to be the poor sap who was the last of the 4 to sit down…it’s probably the last few rounds of the tournament, and my buy-in doesn’t even cover the blinds.

Do two tables of 7, rebuys until the first break, and balance the tables until there are no more than 10 left.

For show-em chips, you can give each player one of them, or have just a couple of them distributed how you like (dropping one in a couple of pots during the night). A player uses the chip to make another player show their cards after a hand they folded. Once used, it is removed from the game.
It can be used to add a bit of fun to the game, but beware…too may of these can be annoying. Use them sparingly.

 

[ValueTown]

I do rebuy til a specific level. And I allow late buy in until rebuy period is over. It's a point where it still makes sense to enter and not only have 5 BB/hamstring'd.

I don't mind if a player is eliminated and another joins. It's essentially a rebuy. Builds the prize pool.

 

[upNdown]

one of the option i'm thinking is when the player get eliminated and new one is ready to join the game, just ask the top 3 player for their chip count and do a average and give new player that much stack.

That’s the worst idea ever.

People buying in (or rebuying) late have to get the same chip stack as the initial buyin - that’s just how it works. And that’s why you normally don’t let people buy in or rebuy too late - it stops making sense when the starting stack is worth 20 big blinds or less.

 

[DesiBoyz]

14 people tournament, one table, and when one person gets knocked out another person buys-in? This is a really REALLY bad idea.
If I knock someone out, they should be gone, not another person popping up in their place. And like you said, that new person is at a disadvantage getting there late in the game.

And rebuys at any time throughout the entire tournament? Please don’t do this. It could be the never-ending poker game. The only time it will get down to 2 players is when everyone else has exhausted all their cash? No one can be knocked out until they decide they’re not buying in anymore? Awful.

Imagine this scenario using those rules:
10 people are playing and 4 people waiting to join the tournament. Those 10 playing keep getting knocked out and buying in, all the while the blinds keep going up. I would hate to be the poor sap who was the last of the 4 to sit down…it’s probably the last few rounds of the tournament, and my buy-in doesn’t even cover the blinds.

Do two tables of 7, rebuys until the first break, and balance the tables until there are no more than 10 left.

For show-em chips, you can give each player one of them, or have just a couple of them distributed how you like (dropping one in a couple of pots during the night). A player uses the chip to make another player show their cards after a hand they folded. Once used, it is removed from the game.
It can be used to add a bit of fun to the game, but beware…too may of these can be annoying. Use them sparingly.

Sorry if my content was little confusing.. i was trying to throw two scenarios...

what i meant was.. if there are 14 people and one get elimanted and other joins.. will only be there when there are no rebuys.. so a person goes out and the new comes in .. no rebuys there... and in this scenario.. 14th people will only join if 4th player is out...which i assume if by then we are at level 10... it won't be fair for that person.

having unlimted rebuys would be a second scenario where 7-8 people would be there.. and ofcourse at one point it will stop making sense to people if the blind will go up and the rebuys stack will stay the same... In this scenario i wanted to know was that those people who had unlimited rebuys ..do they increase the stack if someone wants to join when the level keep increasing.

Thank you for show them chip explanation.. it perfectly make sense and a fun way to play.. i guess one way to play is just add one chip in the starting stack and person can only use it once and it can be out of the game once played.

 

[DoubleEagle]

we are all noobs when it comes to poker and we all are learning..

Don't try to re-invent the wheel. Two tables of seven.

 

[Dodger]

Logistically speaking, not a good format.

From a pure home game perspective where you want to socialize and have everyone enjoy the evening…still not a good format.

You want the players to want to return to games in the future. They do that when they have fun and know that the game is fair for everyone.

Bring in the second table, enjoy the ride.

 

[upNdown]

Yes, a second table is the only way to handle 14 players. It’s either two tables, or tell some people they can’t play. But if you go with the second table, make sure you’re prepared to deal with multiple table tournament issues like table balancing, when to combine, and that there’s always somebody at each table who knows what’s going on - don’t take this personally, but based on this question, I’m not sure you have one of those people.

 

[DesiBoyz]

Thank you everyone for all the replies.

Yes, a second table is the only way to handle 14 players. It’s either two tables, or tell some people they can’t play. But if you go with the second table, make sure you’re prepared to deal with multiple table tournament issues like table balancing, when to combine, and that there’s always somebody at each table who knows what’s going on - don’t take this personally, but based on this question, I’m not sure you have one of those people.

i guess two table are the way to go.
as for balancing the table i guess make sure the difference between two tables shouldn't be more than 2.
and when we have 8-10 player left we can combine to the table 1.
another question came to mind is when combining..should we reseat everybody or reseat newcomers with the random chips/cards draw... or should we just move everybody from the lower count to higher count and let them sit where ever they are

@upNdown yeah we don't have one of those people...YET.

 

[MrBoosh]

You should check out these videos by @Chris Manzoni. If you are having tournaments, or playing poker in general, you want it to be fair for every person who comes to your game. This is the only way to do it and build your game and keep people coming back. You have to have a well run game that is completely fair for everyone.

These videos will help teach you a lot about hosting and running a tournament. All of Chris's videos are great and you should check them all out. But these will get you on the right track. 2 tables of 7 players so everyone starts at the same time and has an equal shot in the tournament. This is the only way to do it.

 

[buzzmonkey]

another question came to mind is when combining..should we reseat everybody or reseat newcomers with the random chips/cards draw... or should we just move everybody from the lower count to higher count and let them sit where ever they are

@upNdown yeah we don't have one of those people...YET.

Re-seat everybody.

 

[buzzmonkey]

Here's how i do seating, but you could buy seating chips or buy or make seating cards.

• I take a deck of cards that doesn't get used for play.
• Each table is assigned a suit.
• I pull the cards Ace - 9 (but you can use 8 or 10 or however many maximum seats you have at a table).
• Once I know how many players I have, I take that many cards from the seating cards. (ex. 14 players, I take 7 hearts and 7 clubs. I may specifically choose cards that spread the players out a bit). I may keep a particular card out if I need to sit there to manage the tournament. Everyone is selected around me so there's no real advantage to me to do this.
• I place the seating cards face down on the table and shuffle and wash them.
• Players each pull a card to determine their seat.
• Once everyone has sat, I collect the seat cards back and make a small deck of 9 cards (again, you take as many as you plan to seat at your final table). When we get down to 9 players, this deck is shuffled and washed and placed out for players to draw their new seats.

 

[BGinGA]

Probably should be posted in the 'controversial opinions' thread, but here goes:

There is nothing inherently wrong with either "unlimited re-buy" or "late-entry" tournament events. Both are self-correcting (it eventually becomes financially inadvisable to re-buy or enter late, given the stack size vs blinds).

Another arguable issue is that all starting stacks must be equal. There is nothing wrong with having all buy-ins and re-buys equal to a fixed number of chips, but an alternate structure where all re-buys and late entries are equal to a preset number of "big-blinds" is also a viable option.

So if your initial buy-in is $40 for 200 big blinds, subsequent buy-ins and re-buys are $40 for 20 big blinds (and calculated at the time of re-buy). The later one re-buys or enters the event, the larger the physical stack -- but it's always equal to 20bb at the current blind level.

You can even apply this concept to a 'reload' structure, where you receive some chips up front with the balance received later in the event (upon busting out, or optional re-load, or forced re-load). Having the re-load portion being a set number of big blinds at the time of use (vs a pre-fixed chip amount) creates new dynamics and strategies.

 

[bigdonkey]

Probably should be posted in the 'controversial opinions' thread, but here goes:

There is nothing inherently wrong with either "unlimited re-buy" or "late-entry" tournament events. Both are self-correcting (it eventually becomes financially inadvisable to re-buy or enter late, given the stack size vs blinds).

Another arguable issue is that all starting stacks must be equal. There is nothing wrong with having all buy-ins and re-buys equal to a fixed number of chips, but an alternate structure where all re-buys and late entries are equal to a preset number of "big-blinds" is also a viable option.

So if your initial buy-in is $40 for 200 big blinds, subsequent buy-ins and re-buys are $40 for 20 big blinds (and calculated at the time of re-buy). The later one re-buys or enters the event, the larger the physical stack -- but it's always equal to 20bb at the current blind level.

200bb, right?

 

[ekricket]

So if your initial buy-in is $40 for 200 big blinds, subsequent buy-ins and re-buys are $40 for 20 big blinds (and calculated at the time of re-buy). The later one re-buys or enters the event, the larger the physical stack -- but it's always equal to 20bb at the current blind level.

I’m buying in when it’s heads up then and taking third place money at minimum easy peasy.

 

[BGinGA]

200bb, right?

Nope

 

[bigdonkey]

Nope

So if I register 5 minutes late, or stack off on the first hand, I'm only getting 20bb?

Edit: Maybe I was misreading. This is for unlimited rebuy formats? I could see that. I'd think I'd prefer rebuys are still for the original stack size if it's > 20bb.

 

[Frogzilla]

IMO, rebuys/reentries should be closed if players remaining is <2x the paid places otherwise the ICM advantage of buying in late is too egregious. Reentry/late entries should get same starting stack, they already have an ICM advantage. High rollers have started charging MORE for late entries.

As to described in OP, your last alternate will be seated with 9/13 other players remaining. He will have ~70% of average stack. Something has gone bonkers with your tournament or structure if average stack is 7 blinds and he sits with 5. Depends how aggro your players and length of structure but something like 25-40 average (and he sits with 18-28) is more reasonable. The alternates are already at an ICM advantage, do not give them any more than starting stack.

 

[upNdown]

IMO, rebuys/reentries should be closed if players remaining is <2x the paid places otherwise the ICM advantage of buying in late is too egregious. Reentry/late entries should get same starting stack, they already have an ICM advantage. High rollers have started charging MORE for late entries.

View attachment 1307460

As to described in OP, your last alternate will be seated with 9/13 other players remaining. He will have ~70% of average stack. Something has gone bonkers with your tournament or structure if average stack is 7 blinds and he sits with 5. Depends how aggro your players and length of structure but something like 25-40 average (and he sits with 18-28) is more reasonable. The alternates are already at an ICM advantage, do not give them any more than starting stack.

Wow, that's really interesting.
In years past, I've seen it advertised as no rake if you register on time. Whether it's an early reg perk or a late reg fee, I really like the idea - I'd like to see it filter down to the lower buy-ins. And as a fan of freezeouts, I love the idea of sticking it to the rebuyers. But they’re doing it wrong - that extra money should go into the prize pool for the players. Unless the rationale is they’re using it to offset the cheap rake for the on-timers? Hmm

 

[allforcharity]

200bb, right?

No way! Why put yourself through the grind of an early part of a tourney if you can buy in late for enough chips to cover the rest of the table?