Poll: Are Brad & Don colluding? (2 Viewers)

Is it sketchy for best friends to always sit next to each other at a home game?

  • Yes, it seems sketchy

    Votes: 5 6.3%
  • Nah, it’s no big deal

    Votes: 26 32.9%
  • It’s hard to say

    Votes: 48 60.8%

  • Total voters
    79
I agree. There's a lot of weird happenings in poker that you come across sometimes. One time there was someone who insisted that we had to have this specific dealer to deal the 50th hand every night! He was a big donator though and paid for all the dealers so we never had any problems.
LOL don't tap the glass, that's fine by me, let him make a toast before and after for all I care.
 
LOL don't tap the glass, that's fine by me, let him make a toast before and after for all I care.
Honestly was great for the game, always a big cheer and hype around the table. Had players counting how many hands until the big one every week and drinks all around.

Until someone suggested we run a double board PLO5 on that hand one night. For some reason I've blocked out my memories of that night.
 
Honestly was great for the game, always a big cheer and hype around the table. Had players counting how many hands until the big one every week and drinks all around.

Until someone suggested we run a double board PLO5 on that hand one night. For some reason I've blocked out my memories of that night.
Traditions like this get momentum.


"50th HAND! GET THE PADDLE!"
 
....if I was told my best friend couldn’t sit by me at a 2-5 game bc they r suspicious w not even 1 hand detail, and want to draw seats…i’d say don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Why on Earth would you just *have* to sit next to each other in order to talk at a poker table? Sitting three feet apart racross the table restricts your vocabulary?
 
Why on Earth would you just *have* to sit next to each other in order to talk at a poker table? Sitting three feet apart racross the table restricts your vocabulary?
Idk. People are quirky. I sit sometimes in the 9/10 seat bc the dealer is my best friend and it’s way easier have conversations w the person beside me instead of talking across the table during hands. How is that not obvious? When people are in hands who wants to talk across the table???

I could certainly be convinced it creates soft play w them and they are picking the best seats for a small advantage. But that’s common in many cash games. And isn’t a seat change at a casino similar, not the same, but similar.

Again. Drawing for seats I get it. Sounds like it’s common here. But def not in the big games, if we polled it I bet it’s common in small stakes. But the OP asked if it was collusion. And I’m still saying 99% likely no, and I would not push the host about it…but you certainly can ask him!
 
Why on Earth would you just *have* to sit next to each other in order to talk at a poker table? Sitting three feet apart racross the table restricts your vocabulary?
I play in a pretty boisterous game most Friday nights. There's always laughing, yelling, or a story being told.

I can tell you from experience in this game that it can be tough to carry on a conversation with the players right next to me, let alone someone across the table. o_O
 
I play in a pretty boisterous game most Friday nights. There's always laughing, yelling, or a story being told.

I can tell you from experience in this game that it can be tough to carry on a conversation with the players right next to me, let alone someone across the table. o_O
Mine too -- my home game for over twenty years was an extremely social affair, and a ton of fun for everybody. But if two guys wanted to have a private conversation, that poker table was not the place for it. Go out on the porch, into the kitchen, -- hell, go share the bathroom if you're that tight and it's that important.

No way in hell there would be anything but drawn seats.
 
Mine too -- my home game for over twenty years was an extremely social affair, and a ton of fun for everybody. But if two guys wanted to have a private conversation, that poker table was not the place for it. Go out on the porch, into the kitchen, -- hell, go share the bathroom if you're that tight and it's that important.

No way in hell there would be anything but drawn seats.
My 20 year home game complete opposite. Friends can sit by friends for casual conversation. Game has action and POSITIVITY lol.

For those who draw seats I’d be interested in the stakes…I think that’s going to be the correlation.
 
Based on many replies here it’s obviously a “kick to the hornets’ nest“ if you request a seat draw after all this time. They just may be friends that want their own company and nothing more.
Nevertheless, I would just start being a bit more observant of their play and look for actions or patterns that may indicate collusion. If you suspect something and then have “evidence” to support it, then suggest the seat draw. If they both (or are the only ones to) vehemently oppose it, then make the accusation with the evidence.
Just know that, at worst, you probably won’t be invited back, but then you’ll most likely be right.
 
It does make a difference for conversation if you are both at opposite ends of the table.
And let’s all be honest. You always whisper stuff to the guy next to you that you wouldn’t say to the whole table. Whether it’s how bad that guy played his hand, or did I make the right fold, and what do you think that guy had - if these two are good friends and discuss a lot of poker together, of course they’d like to share their own private running commentary about what’s happening at the table. Is there anything wrong with that? Probably not.
 
My friend had been the first to arrive at a recent game. Don (the host) already had his chips in his usual spot in the 5 seat, facing the TV.

When my friend put his knapsack and coat down on the 4 seat, Don said: “Oh, Brad is sitting there.” (Brad had not arrived.) So my friend moved to another seat.
"First-come, first-served, baby -- Brad's not even here." And I sit down. If pressed, I note that Seat 6 is still open.

If Brad's preference is to sit to Don's right, and my preference is to sit to the right of the host (no matter where I'm playing), then who should get the seat? If open seating, then the first player who claims it. And I'll die on that hill.
 
"First-come, first-served, baby -- Brad's not even here." And I sit down. If pressed, I note that Seat 6 is still open.

If Brad's preference is to sit to Don's right, and my preference is to sit to the right of the host (no matter where I'm playing), then who should get the seat? If open seating, then the first player who claims it. And I'll die on that hill.
I don’t want to die on a hill, but I still think I like that better than demanding a draw. And if it matters that much to don and Brad then next time they can come in early, together. Holding hands.
 
I had this come up at my game for a different reason - our card room grinder always plopped down on my left (since I am always in the dealer seat) - some more thoughts and a poll here: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/seating-at-cash-game.81472/

Big picture, don't rock the boat just deal with it. We always let the older guys with eyesight issues have a central seat - after we draw if they don't get one we'll ask for a swap.

Telling the host what to do or fighting the host on a house 'custom' is a sure ticket to the bottom of the invite list.
 
Assuming your skill assessment is accurate Donald has an advantage always acting after Bradley especially if Mr. Paisley is aggressive. I would ask for a random seat draw for that reason alone because I prefer the crazies on my right. If they said no AND I thought there were shenanigans going on I wouldn't return.
Otherwise I would just
capture.jpeg
 
the dealer is my best friend and it’s way easier have conversations w the person beside me instead of talking across the table during hands. How is that not obvious?
There's 2 seats next to the host. If I take one, Brad can take the other one. If talking to each other is the only reason they are sitting in that particular position, there is no issue.
these two are good friends and discuss a lot of poker together, of course they’d like to share their own private running commentary about what’s happening at the table. Is there anything wrong with that? Probably not.
There's 2 seats next to the host. If I take one, Brad can take the other one. If talking to each other is the only reason they are sitting in that particular position, there is no issue.

Apparently I had to repeat myself, because a few seem to think these guys can only talk in one direction.
Big picture, don't rock the boat just deal with it. We always let the older guys with eyesight issues have a central seat - after we draw if they don't get one we'll ask for a swap.
Again, I agree here. If there is a legitimate reason, make accommodations. Host sits near chips/bank. Hockey fan faces TV. Vision impaired sits where he can see the community cards. Linebacker sits where he gets more elbow room. The list goes on and on. Maybe at the end of the day, all the seats do get reserved because of legitimate reasons.

But If I were to show up and be told you can only sit in this one particular seat because the rest are reserved for players not here? I'd have to ask if that is because you could only afford one RFID reader that transmits to your phone.
 
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Does seem like a silly distinction but I feel its important: they're saying they have to sit next to eachother in the same seats. That's less suspicious to me than wherever Brad sits, Don follows. Both can be cause for suspicion, sure, but the former I see as far less. I see this distinction being lost in much of the discussion.


If they were moving around the table randomly and always had to be right/left, that's different and more cause for concern than "Oh that's our seats, always has been." Just a more isolated variable if moving together. Please correct me if Im wrong, just a correlation geek.
 
Does seem like a silly distinction but I feel its important: they're saying they have to sit next to eachother in the same seats. That's less suspicious to me than wherever Brad sits, Don follows. Both can be cause for suspicion, sure, but the former I see as far less. I see this distinction being lost in much of the discussion.


If they were moving around the table randomly and always had to be right/left, that's different and more cause for concern than "Oh that's our seats, always has been." Just a more isolated variable if moving together. Please correct me if Im wrong, just a correlation geek.

The host does not move because his seat is closest to the table behind him with the chips/money.

Again, what makes it iffy to me is the host specifically prevented a regular in his game from sitting to his right. Even in the absence of the best buddy, that would strike me as weird.

Host’s prerogative, I guess, but in my own game I don’t dictate who sits next to me, or across from me, or anywhere else because it would seem like I’m taking advantage of my status as host inappropriately. There are definitely players I’d like to force to sit to my left or right every time, and that would improve my win rate, but it would be wrong.
 
Does seem like a silly distinction but I feel its important: they're saying they have to sit next to eachother in the same seats. That's less suspicious to me than wherever Brad sits, Don follows. Both can be cause for suspicion, sure, but the former I see as far less. I see this distinction being lost in much of the discussion.


If they were moving around the table randomly and always had to be right/left, that's different and more cause for concern than "Oh that's our seats, always has been." Just a more isolated variable if moving together. Please correct me if Im wrong, just a correlation geek.
yes you’re right…it could be brad asked for seat 4 for reasons that have nothing to do with the host being in seat 5
 
The host does not move because his seat is closest to the table behind him with the chips/money.

Again, what makes it iffy to me is the host specifically prevented a regular in his game from sitting to his right. Even in the absence of the best buddy, that would strike me as weird.

Host’s prerogative, I guess, but in my own game I don’t dictate who sits next to me, or across from me, or anywhere else because it would seem like I’m taking advantage of my status as host inappropriately. There are definitely players I’d like to force to sit to my left or right every time, and that would improve my win rate, but it would be wrong.
You're totally right, host is not moving for a seat reason, that makes sense, and preventing someone from sitting in that other seat is odd enough.

I just see that many of the posts are disregarding the information that they're in the same seats as well as the same position, just an extra fixed variable that's involved that, when removed, makes it more damning. If they were always sitting in those same relative positions while moving seats its a much stronger relationship.

Less about your specific situation and more about an extra relationship involved. Comfy seat, also TV, closest to his bag/gun, old vet/cop that doesn't like his back to the door and has confided in the host, closest to bathroom because of IBS (lol). Given the info, I just can't separate their 1. relative juxtaposition from 2. those specific seats & location. Maybe I'm way off the farm, that's okay lol, situation analysis is interesting though.


Honestly this thread has been very helpful to my thought processes and I enjoyed reading the discussion, thanks for spurring it and dealing with all of our opinions/thought processes.
 
And herein is the superiority of the circular/octagonal table! You big basement 96" Oval mafia will never defeat out cramped quarters 48" table games!
This is the truth. Depending on where you’re sitting at a big oval, there might be one or more players you can’t see. Think about it. You’re playing poker against a guy you can’t even see! Poker!
Ovals are the worst.
 
Haven't read all the replies, but initial thought is that it is annoying and unfriendly to the other players to have certain players always sit in the same seat. Sure, if it's a fish that always loose and a fun player, everyone should be happy to cater to that, but if it's just entitlement and him getting special rights for being the best friend of the host, then I'd be annoyed by it.

I would say it's unlikely to be cheating based solely on the info in the OP, but definitely unfriendly to the other players.

And sure, if the seat is open when he gets there and that way always sit down early then fair enough. But that noone else is allowed in that seat is pretty bs imo.
 
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Update:

I went back to the game and got there early. I put my bag and coat to the right of the host’s usual seat, i.e. Brad’s seat.

The host looked at my stuff, and kind of made a face, but didn’t ask me to move. So, less evidence of anything fishy.

However, once Brad arrived I waited until he picked a seat (to the left of the host). Then I said I was moving one over to have a better view of the table. Brad jumped to take his usual seat to the host’s right with a speed that would make Usain Bolt jealous.

This struck me as odd because he already had a seat next to his best buddy, on the other side of him, with the same view of the TV. But maybe it was just habit, I dunno.

I did keep an eye on their play, and they definitely do not tangle with each other in big pots very often, if at all. That, too, could just be a function of them considering each other better players, and wanting to focus on exploiting some of the weaker fish at the table. Again, I could suggest some soft collusion, or it could just be a sound strategic decision.

There was, however, one truly odd hand between the two of them. It went multiway to the flop, but Brad raised big, and Don called, the other players, the rest folding. This is I understand it is a fairly common strategy for colluders.

They then checked the hand through the turn and river, with the board showing a guaranteed chop on the river (quads with an A kicker).

The host, Don, flipped over a pocket pair, a full house earlier which which had been counterfeited by the quads.

Brad then *mucked his hand* giving Don the pot that should have been a 100% chop.

My friend, who was the one who raised the seating issue with me originally, said to Brad: “What the fuck are you doing? Why would you do that?”

Brad just kind of mumbled something and shook his head. If he misread the board, I would’ve expected him to say so— it’s the most natural, and maybe the only excuse.

It looked a lot like chip dumping, but it was done in such an all the way that I almost think it must’ve been an accident. Way too unsubtle.

Then again Brad is probably the most hyperaware player in this game, commenting constantly on boards and hands, even when he is not in them. It’s possible that he was distracted, but that would be very uncharacteristic of him in a pot like that.

So, there’s that.

Don said to Brad, “Get your head in the game,” and then everything continued with no further discussion.
 
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