Should we talk about Martin Kabhrel? (1 Viewer)

[upNdown]

I saw this clown on the $250k final table last night and I remember how annoying he was from last year or maybe the year before. For those who aren’t familiar, he’s like Will Kassouf but a lot worse.
But when Dan Smith got knocked out and told him he hopes he gets banned, I knew I’d missed something.
I did some quick googling and I’ll do a lot more when I get a chance, but apparently Robl and others have accused him of marking cards.

I’m usually a fan of these annoying people, like Kassouf or even Hellmuth, who although I’d never want to play with in person, keep it interesting as a home viewer. But this Martin guy is too annoying to watch even for me. And if he’s a cheater on top of it?

 

[Hornet]

There are videos of him pushing his nails down on the cards. And just about every hand he is in, he stares at his opponents’ cards intently, often putting his face as close to the cards as he can. Seems very sus, even ignoring some of his plays.

 

[upNdown]

There are videos of him pushing his nails down on the cards. And just about every hand he is in, he stares at his opponents’ cards intently, often putting his face as close to the cards as he can. Seems very sus, even ignoring some of his plays.

I saw him last night leaving way back and looking down, ostensibly to get a tell off his opponent’s legs or feet? It was very odd and the commentators seemed pretty confused.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I just started seeing the accusations on Twitter but I wouldn't put it past someone to cheat since people cheat in free games just to make the leaderboard, toss in a 250K buyin event with millions on the line and it's kinda expected there's gonna be some scumbaggery

 

[ekricket]

So I always thought it would be instructional to catch someone like this, and then write the marks down on a board where everyone can see, then just keep using the same cards. Let everyone use his marks.
It’s all information for everyone after all.

Next time he comes I’d start the game by giving him a deck and asking him to mark it ahead of time so it doesn’t slow us down. I’d keep inviting him with this ritual until he no longer came around.

 

[megarises]

There are videos of him pushing his nails down on the cards. And just about every hand he is in, he stares at his opponents’ cards intently, often putting his face as close to the cards as he can. Seems very sus, even ignoring some of his plays.

The players went as far to use their chip stacks as towers to block their cards. They even had a floor ruling that he wasn't allowed to stand up and stare during the middle of a hand.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

DNegs mentioned something about marked cards on his blog as well, forget the event though.

 

[aggie]

Good Reddit post with links.

 

[PlaidDragon]

Diablo IV has some great ideas on how to prevent cheating. Just found this today:

 

[JP1984]

I’m usually a fan of these annoying people, like Kassouf or even Hellmuth, who although I’d never want to play with in person, keep it interesting as a home viewer. But this Martin guy is too annoying to watch even for me. And if he’s a cheater on top of it?

Kassouf is also a cheat, played with him for years at my local casino, heard the same old schtick 3 nights a week for 5 years plus. Then he got done for stealing chips off friends and that was that. Sadly, others now try to imitate him. He was a massive losing player at £1/£2, fair play he made the most of his run good in the ME though.

https://www.casino.org/news/brit-poker-pro-william-kassouf-banned-by-grosvenor-casinos-for-stealing/

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

The fingernail into the cards definitely looked suspicious. But should he be banned for "antics", using all :30sec & constantly talking like an @$$ though? Shouldn't he get a warning & then a penalty first?

 

[upNdown]

The fingernail into the cards definitely looked suspicious. But should he be banned for "antics", using all :30sec & constantly talking like an @$$ though? Shouldn't he get a warning & then a penalty first?

I don’t think you should get banned, penalty or warning for antics or for wasting time (at least not when there’s a shot clock.). Like I said, I can’t imagine playing with the guy - I’m not saying it’s cool. But I can’t imagine how you could justify a penalty for never shutting up.
Marking cards, on the other hand - that’s got to be dealt with. At least I’d hope.

 

[Highli99]

I saw him last night leaving way back and looking down, ostensibly to get a tell off his opponent’s legs or feet? It was very odd and the commentators seemed pretty confused.

When getting a leg tell it’s customary to drop a chip on the floor as pretense. Amirite @Chippy McChiperson or @kirchhausen ?

 

[kirchhausen]

When getting a leg tell it’s customary to drop a chip on the floor as pretense. Amirite @Chippy McChiperson or @kirchhausen ?

I mean if you want to be subtle about it, sure

 

[KHarp1]

I use to use the dropped coins trick to look up girls skirts, but, no one carries change anymore, and I'm too tight to throw a dollar on the ground.

 

[Zmasterben]

I watched the first four hours of the stream and the thing that bummed me the most was how resigned the other players were to deal with his bullshit.

Even without the allegations, I couldn’t imagine being stuck at a table with him for 8 hours. Pretty sure Smith said no amount of money is worth this and just looked for his opening to gtfo.

 

[upNdown]

I watched the first four hours of the stream and the thing that bummed me the most was how resigned the other players were to deal with his bullshit.

Even without the allegations, I couldn’t imagine being stuck at a table with him for 8 hours. Pretty sure Smith said no amount of money is worth this and just looked for his opening to gtfo.

Right? I know you can't collude with the cards, but couldn't they collude with the speech? Either everybody just refuse to respond to anything he says, or everybody tell him to shut up every time he speaks, or something? There's got to be a way for a table to strike back at a guy like that.

 

[Zmasterben]

Right? I know you can't collude with the cards, but couldn't they collude with the speech? Either everybody just refuse to respond to anything he says, or everybody tell him to shut up every time he speaks, or something? There's got to be a way for a table to strike back at a guy like that.

My uneducated assumption is they all learned through trial and error it was easier to humor him over trying to be combative.

I was genuinely shocked that they answered his chip count requests every time instead of just staying quiet and pointing at their stacks. I am guessing that when they did the latter he became more obnoxious to them as an angle thinking he was now really under their skin.

 

[Highli99]

My uneducated assumption is they all learned through trial and error it was easier to humor him over trying to be combative.

I was genuinely shocked that they answered his chip count requests every time instead of just staying quiet and pointing at their stacks. I am guessing that when they did the latter he became more obnoxious to them as an angle thinking he was now really under their skin.

I just say vastly incorrect numbers. Or something like, I’ve got you covered, even when I clearly do not. The key is deadpan delivery and confidence.

 

[Zmasterben]

I just say vastly incorrect numbers. Or something like, I’ve got you covered, even when I clearly do not. The key is deadpan delivery and confidence.

I was thinking about this last night and I bet there are technically rules against it and you find yourself in a hockey retaliation penalty situation.

My line of thought was definitely to stare him down comletely straight faced and say something like "1.2 trillion" when he asks for a count.

 

[upNdown]

Honestly, if they wanted to crack down on him, they could start with giving him a warning based on this rule. I believe his shouts of "BLUFFER!" would qualify as a taunt.

47. Any Participant who taunts another Participant through theatrics or gestures or engages in any form of inappropriate behavior intended to disrupt other Participants in an Event will be subject to penalty in accordance with Rules 40, 113, and 114.

 

[BGinGA]

I just say vastly incorrect numbers. Or something like, I’ve got you covered, even when I clearly do not. The key is deadpan delivery and confidence.

I was thinking about this last night and I bet there are technically rules against it and you find yourself in a hockey retaliation penalty situation.

My line of thought was definitely to stare him down comletely straight faced and say something like "1.2 trillion" when he asks for a count.

My standard response is to twirl my finger around my stack while muttering, "about tree fiddy?"

That's all you get, buddy. Stop asking.

 

[doctorchips]

I'm willing to bet he was definitely cheating and had been marking cards. Finger nails like little daggers, and digging right into the side of the cards when he thought he could do it clean without anyone noticing. He was scratching, bending...etc through the entire final table.

Look at this clip and tell me that the way his finger digs into the side of the card quickly isn't extremely suspect:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1670552477307904000

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fy7vmJ8aEAEZUya?format=jpg&name=large

https://twitter.com/x/status/1670645332294639617

Also, coincidence that once the other players heard the allegations of him marking cards he started running bad?

When there's 5.2 million dollars on the line, it's probably best to assume that at least some people are going to try to cheat the others.

 

[glynn]

I was thinking about this last night and I bet there are technically rules against it and you find yourself in a hockey retaliation penalty situation.

Unless WSOP have a specific exception, players are only entitled to a reasonable estimate, which means that stacks are to be visible and countable to the curious player. Otherwise you could create a burden on the requested player to get the count of his stack right just by asking him.

Honestly, if they wanted to crack down on him, they could start with giving him a warning based on this rule. I believe his shouts of "BLUFFER!" would qualify as a taunt.

47. Any Participant who taunts another Participant through theatrics or gestures or engages in any form of inappropriate behavior intended to disrupt other Participants in an Event will be subject to penalty in accordance with Rules 40, 113, and 114.

Yep, not that they even need a specific rule. They could ban him for any legal reason, probably to the joy of of everyone who has had to suffer him. They either don't want to or are too chickenshit.

He should have received a penalty the first time he stood after being told not to stand, especially after playing dumb about what the problem was. Forget suspected cheaters, the WSOP let known cheaters play year after year. The threshold is unreasonably high.

 

[upNdown]

The WSOP let known cheaters play year after year.

Which seems so strange to me. I understand why casinos let poker cheat play in general - poker cheats are stealing from other poker players, not from the casino, so the casino doesn't have to care. But the WSOP is just poker - that's the entire brand! So you'd think it would be different. But I'm sure Martin is getting them a lot of clicks today, so sigh.

 

[DoubleEagle]

I would have ignored his constant asking for a count. Maybe even give the wrong count to him. He is the biggest douchebag ever.

49: Accepted Action

Poker is a game of alert, continuous observation. It is the caller’s responsibility to determine the correct amount of an opponent’s bet before calling, regardless of what is stated by others. If a caller requests a count but receives incorrect information from a dealer or player, then pushes out that amount or declares call, the caller has accepted the full correct action and is subject to the correct wager or all-in amount. As with all situations, Rule 1 may apply at TD’s discretion. See also RP-12.

 

[upNdown]

I would have ignored his constant asking for a count. Maybe even give the wrong count to him. He is the biggest douchebag ever.

49: Accepted Action

Poker is a game of alert, continuous observation. It is the caller’s responsibility to determine the correct amount of an opponent’s bet before calling, regardless of what is stated by others. If a caller requests a count but receives incorrect information from a dealer or player, then pushes out that amount or declares call, the caller has accepted the full correct action and is subject to the correct wager or all-in amount. As with all situations, Rule 1 may apply at TD’s discretion. See also RP-12.

Personally I doubt that somebody intentionally grossly misrepresenting their stack would be absolved by the accepted action rule. But I think it’s kind of a red herring anyway. Based on what I saw and what I’ve been reading, his requests for counts were either to delay and annoy, or to give him an excuse to stare at his opponents cards (looking for his marks) or both.

 

[doctorchips]

Personally I doubt that somebody intentionally grossly misrepresenting their stack would be absolved by the accepted action rule. But I think it’s kind of a red herring anyway. Based on what I saw and what I’ve been reading, his requests for counts were either to delay and annoy, or to give him an excuse to stare at his opponents cards (looking for his marks) or both.

After watching and re-watching him play various hands, 100% he's very skilled at doing exactly what close-up magicians do in misdirecting people (red herring, as you said).

People think he's just being a troll or being obnoxious, but that is part of the misdirection so that he can mark cards. It's probably easier for us to view the cheating on camera vs. being live in front of him. The natural response for most people to someone who is in your face and acting like this, or not afraid to stare directly into your eyes is to avert and look away or try and pretend that person isn't there.

IMO this guy is not only annoying, but his annoying habits are part of the overall strategy to misdirect. In close-up magic, part of what you do is set an expectation (holding the cards weirdly, touching your shoulder repeatedly before you do something) and then eventually the brain ignores that repeated action because it isn't useful information. Perfectly explains why he compulsively holds the cards, flicks them up, flicks them down, moves his hands all around the cards. Would be harder to discern when exactly he's marking them, but I feel strongly it has something to do with his extremely long fingernails.

 

[Tallguy]

I’d rather sit at a table with @Mike mac four days in a row than four hands with this guy.

 

[LeLe]

I'm going to admit that I find Kabrhel's antics entertaining. I rather see him on the Final Table rather than 6 GTO guys with hoodie plus 2 OMC.

I believe he just an attention seeker and playing the role of villain just to get more attention.

At this point, I will not be surprised with what he will do at all just to get more 3 min of fame