Incident at recent online home game.

naked_eskimo

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I want to share an interesting scenario that came up last week in my regular online poker mavens game that I host.

Quick summary:

I had just finished a small conversation with the Villain about his out of whack preflop raises. This has come up before with him. It was late at night and we were just down to three handed. It's a .50/$1 game and he starts raising 8-12x preflop almost every hand. Forcing me to fold things like KQs, QJs, etc. Hands I would normally play, but not for 8x or 12x. After about 20 mins I said that I had signed up to play .50/$1, not $2/$4. If he wanted to keep betting that much that is fine, but I'll just go to bed as it's late anyway, and they can play heads up if they want. He didn't take well to that conversation and I just let it sort of peter out.

Then this happened. He suddenly pushes $173 dollars preflop. He then says "fuck, sorry". I had AKs. At that moment, I thought he was just being sarcastic about the earlier conversation and did it as a joke figuring he would never get called. So I call, flop comes Q high (he has Q4 off) and I shove for my remaining $40. I then look back at the chat and he had typed "I meant to make it $3". Ok fine...but what are you going to do now? Well, he calls my $40, then hand plays out and I river a winner. He then starts demanding that "I make it right" and if I don't then we are not friends anymore and I'm a !@#$sucker.

My opinion he did make a mistake. He could have made that way clearer, but rather than take a stand and say pause the game, stop the hand, etc..he sees that he flops top pair with Q4 and decided to let it run out and see what would happen. When he loses, he then demands his money back. Pretty shitty if you ask me. There was plenty of time after my flop bet for him to plead his misclick case. But he chose not to do that. I even asked him four times in the ensuing argument what he would be saying if his hand had held up and he won. He refused to answer that question.

The next morning I transferred him back the money from the pot. I don't know that many people would have, but $200 is not worth the hassle for me. He did apologize for his verbal abuse saying he had had too much to drink. Not a first for him, either. He can get verbally abusive when drinking and losing.

I'm curious how others might have handled this situation.

Here is the hand history:


Hand #34984-219 - 2021-01-22 00:00:24
Game: NL Hold'em (1 - 2000) - Blinds 0.50/1
Site: Brantford Poker
Table: CRY ME A RIVER
Seat 4: MrsSmith (401.75)
Seat 5: Hero (213.50)
Seat 6: Villain (644.75)
Villain has the dealer button
MrsSmith posts small blind 0.50
Hero: "ty"
Hero posts big blind 1
** Hole Cards ** [3 players]
Villain raises to 173
MrsSmith folds
Villain: "fuck"
Villain: "sorry"
Hero calls 172
** Flop ** [8d 6s Qc]
Villain: "was supposed to be 3"
Hero bets 40.50 (All-in)
Villain: "seriously?"
Villain: "i was beting $3"
Villain: "and i said it right away"
Hero: "i thought you were being sarcastic"
Villain calls 40.50
** Turn ** [5s]
** River ** [Ah]
** Pot Show Down ** [8d 6s Qc 5s Ah]
Hero shows [As Ks] (a Pair of Aces +KQ8)
Villain shows [Qd 4d] (a Pair of Queens +A86)
Hero wins Pot (427.50) with a Pair
Rake (0) Pot (427.50) Players (MrsSmith: 0.50, Hero: 213.50, Villain: 213.50)
** Summary **
Board: [8d 6s Qc 5s Ah], Players: 3, Pots: 1, Total: 427.50, Rake: 0, End: Showdown
Seat 4: MrsSmith (-0.50) [6d 7d] Folded on PreFlop
Seat 5: Hero (+214) [As Ks] Showdown with a Pair of Aces +KQ8
Seat 6: Villain (-213.50) [Qd 4d] Showdown with a Pair of Queens +A86
 
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DrStrange

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Sucks to be him. Not shipping him a dime.

If the villains wants to negotiate a deal on his "mis-click" do it before the hand results are known. Somehow I suspect that had Q4 held up vs AK the villain wouldn't have been quick to send Hero his money back.

As for the larger issue - how to deal with a LAG making huge preflop bets. This is a license to print money. Treat the environment as a short stack game and gamble on 60/40 < or better > situations. Works even better if Hero has a relatively short stack so he can 3-bet/jam a wide range or fold.
 

bluegill

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Agreed. It just gets annoying after a while. So as you can see from the hand history, I was in major trap mode. I limped with AKs on the button hoping that he would do a stupid raise. He did. Boy, did he ever.
The hand history says you were the big blind. not that it matters.
 

Beakertwang

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If I want to profit off someone, I may tolerate his drunken verbal assaults. I’ll certainly be happy to let him open 10x with trash hands.

But if I’m trying to maintain a fun, friendly home game environment, I’m not putting up with belligerence and insults. He’s either muted or booted.
 

upNdown

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I think in the interest of friendship, I would have refunded him a big chunk. Not the whole pot. Maybe 50%, maybe 75%, I dunno.
Realistically, based on the total picture (except friendship) fuck him. But if he's a friend and a guy you'd like to continue playing with, keep like 50, 60, 70 bucks, and ship the rest back to the asshead.
 
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Sucks to be him. Not shipping him a dime.

If the villains wants to negotiate a deal on his "mis-click" do it before the hand results are known. Somehow I suspect that had Q4 held up vs AK the villain wouldn't have been quick to send Hero his money back.

As for the larger issue - how to deal with a LAG making huge preflop bets. This is a license to print money. Treat the environment as a short stack game and gamble on 60/40 < or better > situations. Works even better if Hero has a relatively short stack so he can 3-bet/jam a wide range or fold.
++ 100 million this ^^^^ once the results are known...it is what it is.

I have peeps that bet stupid like this, but they don't cry about losing a ton of money. Although the bastards piss me off when they win a ton...LMAO!!. :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 

SixSpeedFury

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He said he made a mistake, saw he flopped top pair and decided to let it play out. FUCK. OUTTA. HERE. He tried to take advantage when he saw the flop and started bitching when he got rivered. Don’t give him a dime. Show him this thread to show him how much of a douche he is.
 

i'm nobody

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It's amazing how apologetic people get after they have lost money. I guess returning his money is one way to keep his friendship, if it is that important to you. And I agree that he had more than enough time to "explain" his mistake before the flop. Is there an option to not invite him for the next 3 - 4 sessions? Might be a good lesson. Whatever you decide to do from now on I hope it works out in your favour.
 

Eriks

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He then starts demanding that "I make it right"


When he loses, he then demands his money back.

The next morning I transferred him back the money from the pot.
Fuck that. He seems like a pos and I’m not sending any money back as I’m sure he would’ve kept it had his queens held up
 

SpaceMonkey420

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Well folks to me it’s all too easy, sayonara old “friend” saves me time cuz he sounds SUPER sleezy.... !!!

40FEFD45-1599-4E51-923F-66041B0D148B.jpeg
 
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Saoliver

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I had an incident like this at my brother-in-law's home game back in the Spring. We have been playing for 15 years.

He accused me of taking advantage of him in a game that he didn't know well (it was double board pot limit Texas hold'em :banghead:)...essentially, cheating him. He blew up! We have mixed in double board games for YEARS.

Anyway, I said nothing. I cut $50 out of the pot (what he lost in the hand) and pushed it to him. I cashed myself out and went home. He apologized the next day...and told me that he had cleared $450 on the night. Not once did he offer to give me back the $50, and I wasn't going to bring it up. Not worth it with family...but with anyone else, I would have blown up at him.

He keeps asking when we can play again. I keep telling him that I don't want to. And everyone else that was at that game doesn't want to play with him either. It was rather uncomfortable for all of them.
 

JMC9389

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If this is a good friend and he honestly made a mistake, it's OK to send the money back if you feel like it.

If this is just an acquaintance that you don't really know outside of this game, eff that. Same way one is responsible for knowing the house rules, you're responsible for any misclicks and be held accountable for them.

Couple of stories. First, I was at a home tournament with some PCF'ers a few months ago. I'm short stacked with 12 or so big blinds left at 200/400 blinds and I picked up pocket 10's in the cut off. I put out a single $1000 chip but didn't announce a raise until after the chip crossed the betting line. Host stated it was a call and button and big blind limped in.

Flop came something like 9 x x rainbow with no overcards. BB checks, I shipped my remaining stack, button folded and BB has me covered and calls. I turn over my tens and BB shows his 9 5 off. He turns his trip 9's and I rebuy. Despite not working out in my favor, I owned up to my mistake and rebought without saying anything.

Second story that is more pertinent to OP's situation. I was playing a $20 buy in cash game with friends on Mavens last year. Two hours into the session and I'm just not missing anything. Hitting most of my draws and even my missed draws, semi bluffs, and bluffs are getting through. I worked up to an $80 stack. I picked up AK suited in position and went to raise to 0.50 cents from the 0.10/0.20 blinds. I misclick and miss the decimal point, putting in a raise to $50. The only other guy with more than a $40 stack calls me off and turns over pocket 8's. I flop an ace but then villain rivers his trips. I lost all of my winnings for the night and was back to close my starting stack. I owned up to it and let villain keep the money.

This villain in the OP sounds like a LAG baby that throws a tantrum when someone calls his semi bluffs or bluffs and gets beat clean by solid ABC poker. As @DrStrange mentions, this guy is a mint if you can get your money in good.
 

naked_eskimo

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When he called the $40 on the flop, he was committed. Period.
Agreed. He claims he only called because he panicked and didn't know what other options he had. Well, how about "please pause the game, this was a misclick". Seems simple enough to me.

I did send him the money to salvage the friendship and avoid the whole hassle of it. $200 is not going to break me, but it has definitely bruised the friendship. I just wanted to stop the damage and be done with it, sort of. It's going to linger with me for a bit, though. Especially threatening our friendship and calling me really inappropriate names, etc.

He is a good friend. Probably my best friend. I've known him since first year University. Sad that I had to take the hit to salvage the friendship when I did nothing wrong and was not also verbally abusive on top of it.
 

BarrieJ3

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1. I log off immediately and pay pal him the cash.
2. I’m not responding or loling at our online games or chatting via text.
3. He is a long shot alternate for any future home games post COVID, unless players bring up that dude has turned into a socially acceptable, slightly respectable human.
(If it’s a long term player or good friend - I send him the money. Next day sober I let him know it played out shittily, I don’t care about the money, but if he ever pulls that on one of my players or at my game, he’s out)

IF IM THE ONE THAT SHIPS IT ON ACCIDENT

If it’s friends and I have rags I’ll mention damn it was an accident but I’m ready to gambol!!!

Depending on who I’m playing with and I have a great hand, I’ll either say nothing or (with close friends) say it was an accident but I’m standing on solid cards.

Either way it’s my dumb bet and I’m happily playing it out, shit happens.
 
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naked_eskimo

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This villain in the OP sounds like a LAG baby that throws a tantrum when someone calls his semi bluffs or bluffs and gets beat clean by solid
Very much so. He just cannot lose a pot without bitching for 30 mins. Even on classic close equity situations like an overcard vs a small to medium pair. If I have A5 and call his preflop raise with 66 and hit an ace, he will bitch non stop about me "hitting a 3 outer".
 

JMC9389

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Very much so. He just cannot lose a pot without bitching for 30 mins. Even on classic close equity situations like an overcard vs a small to medium pair. If I have A5 and call his preflop raise with 66 and hit an ace, he will bitch non stop about me "hitting a 3 outer".
I'd avoid playing with him. Poker is supposed to be fun.
 

Kain8

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Very much so. He just cannot lose a pot without bitching for 30 mins. Even on classic close equity situations like an overcard vs a small to medium pair. If I have A5 and call his preflop raise with 66 and hit an ace, he will bitch non stop about me "hitting a 3 outer".

Why in the name that's everything holy in poker do you have him in your game then?
 

naked_eskimo

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He's in the home game because we have been friends forever and we've always played at his house. Since Covid, however, we have been playing on my poker mavens server that I alone fund. I paid for the license, the ssl certificate, the domain name, etc. I host the server and do all the server maintenance, etc.
 

upNdown

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I don't understand how anybody could behave this way, unless it was his first time ever playing AND he has no pride or integrity.
Misclicks happen. It's part of the game, online and live. Own your mistakes, shrug them off and move on.
 

JMC9389

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Agreed. He claims he only called because he panicked and didn't know what other options he had. Well, how about "please pause the game, this was a misclick". Seems simple enough to me.

I did send him the money to salvage the friendship and avoid the whole hassle of it. $200 is not going to break me, but it has definitely bruised the friendship. I just wanted to stop the damage and be done with it, sort of. It's going to linger with me for a bit, though. Especially threatening our friendship and calling me really inappropriate names, etc.

He is a good friend. Probably my best friend. I've known him since first year University. Sad that I had to take the hit to salvage the friendship when I did nothing wrong and was not also verbally abusive on top of it.
If you want to keep the friendship fine, but I would never play poker with him again. It's a delicate situation that I have no idea how to approach. Good luck.
 

detroitdad

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Sucks to be him. Not shipping him a dime.

If the villains wants to negotiate a deal on his "mis-click" do it before the hand results are known. Somehow I suspect that had Q4 held up vs AK the villain wouldn't have been quick to send Hero his money back.

As for the larger issue - how to deal with a LAG making huge preflop bets. This is a license to print money. Treat the environment as a short stack game and gamble on 60/40 < or better > situations. Works even better if Hero has a relatively short stack so he can 3-bet/jam a wide range or fold.

This.........
 
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