His Rule, not mine (1 Viewer)

According to Toby in an earlier post in this thread (I'm too lazy to look it up and quote it), he 'provided artwork to be used for a cash set and a tournament set' or words to that effect. Sounds pretty specific to me.

Somebody either has a faulty memory, is being less-than-truthful now, or there was an implied agreement of some sort. Hard to say exactly what was said, implied, or agreed to without complete transcripts of all communications.

But there certainly isn't sufficient evidence to start hanging people and throwing around insulting remarks. You should put down your pitchfork until you have all the facts, Travis. At this point, nobody (besides lemonzest and toby) really knows shit.
 
RainmanTrail said:
HERE WAS NO UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN TOBY AND LEMON THAT HE WASN'T BUYING THE RIGHTS TO THE ARTWORK HE HIRED HIM FOR!
Click to expand...

I don't have a dog in this fight (& really don't wish to antagonize things) -- but this is why the law has default rules. From the back-and-forth, my best guess is there was no specific discussion or understanding. Let's take that as a given.

Let's assume U.S. law is relevant (others have posted laws from various other jurisdictions). IANYL (& not legal advice), but this article from the copyright office looks to give the rights to the designer if (i) the designer is an independent contractor, not an employee and (ii) there is no written agreement assigning the rights to the purchaser. See https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

As noted, others have posted snippets of law from other jurisdictions. I'm not an expert but those look to be even more in favor of the designer.

On my read, the law aspect of this looks pretty clear.
 
Lemonzest said:
I never assumed. People asked and my reply was that as far as I am concerned its fine.

I always maintained that I really dont know what the norms are with IP and usage.

I am fine and have no ax to grind. The people that want art will deal directly with Toby.
Click to expand...

Fair enough


RainmanTrail said:
But no one wants to feel like they got raped after paying for design help either.
Click to expand...

But that is a very different characterization than this^

and I am only responding under the assumption that you are the only one so far who has paid for any design services related to SB?
 
BGinGA said:
According to Toby in an earlier post in this thread (I'm too lazy to look it up and quote it), he 'provided artwork to be used for a cash set and a tournament set' or words to that effect. Sounds pretty specific to me.

Somebody either has a faulty memory, is being less-than-truthful now, or there was an implied agreement of some sort. Hard to say exactly what was said, implied, or agreed to without complete transcripts of all communications.

But there certainly isn't sufficient evidence to start hanging people and throwing around insulting remarks. You should put down your pitchfork until you have all the facts, Travis. At this point, nobody (besides lemonzest and toby) really knows shit.
Click to expand...

I dont need any new denoms or cards etc. I am good.
 
Last edited:
HobokenNJ said:
I don't have a dog in this fight (& really don't wish to antagonize things) -- but this is why the law has default rules. From the back-and-forth, my best guess is there was no specific discussion or understanding. Let's take that as a given.

Let's assume U.S. law is relevant (others have posted laws from various other jurisdictions). IANYL (& not legal advice), but this article from the copyright office looks to give the rights to the designer if (i) the designer is an independent contractor, not an employee and (ii) there is no written agreement assigning the rights to the purchaser. See https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

As noted, others have posted snippets of law from other jurisdictions. I'm not an expert but those look to be even more in favor of the designer.

On my read, the law aspect of this looks pretty clear.
Click to expand...

Who gives a shit about the law though? This has nothing to do with what is or isn't legal. It has everything to do with what's "right". And most people here would feel as though they had been wronged if they were on the receiving end of Toby's arrangement.
 
So if I understand this right if a set of say 10,000 chips are made with a custom logo and they are sold throughout the PCF community it’s all good but if someone what to make changes or add on or create a new denom with the same logo they need permission or pay correct?
Still wondering why you would need to pay the artist when they have been paid for that barrel or rack of chips and it’s just being transferred from one owner to the next
 
RainmanTrail said:
That and NOT informing his client that this was his plan from the outset. The deceit is my primary issue.

@Toby keeps pretending that we're all just a bunch of cheap asses who don't want to pay him for his work. Which is of course a strawman argument. No one here thinks he shouldn't be well paid for his work. But no one wants to feel like they got raped after paying for design help either.

I guess the key takeaway here that I hoped to convey through this entire fiasco is that if you are looking for design help, there are plenty of excellent designers here that are highly skilled, super helpful, fair, and straight forward about what you're getting when you pay for their services. Then there's Toby.
Click to expand...

You're relatively new to chipping, but still been around long enough to know you're spewing horseshit. Maybe you're off you're meds, but I'm not sure what ulterior motive you have for skewering @Toby who has been stand-up fair to everyone AFAIK across 3 forums. Hire any designer, J5, Toby, etc. and you don't own the design. You effectively leased the right to use it for your set. You want to follow up getting dealer buttons, cut cards, labels made? You need to pay them to alter the art and meet specs. Stop being a fucking troll.
 
Outkicked said:
So if I understand this right if a set of say 10,000 chips are made with a custom logo and they are sold throughout the PCF community it’s all good but if someone what to make changes or add on or create a new denom with the same logo they need permission or pay correct?
Still wondering why you would need to pay the artist when they have been paid for that barrel or rack of chips and it’s just being transferred from one owner to the next
Click to expand...
Outkicked said:
So if I understand this right if a set of say 10,000 chips are made with a custom logo and they are sold throughout the PCF community it’s all good but if someone what to make changes or add on or create a new denom with the same logo they need permission or pay correct?
Still wondering why you would need to pay the artist when they have been paid for that barrel or rack of chips and it’s just being transferred from one owner to the next
Click to expand...
not that I even have enough money to buy one of these sets but just trying to figure out the proper way of going about customs for a CPC set
 
ssanel54 said:
Fair enough




But that is a very different characterization than this^

and I am only responding under the assumption that you are the only one so far who has paid for any design services related to SB?
Click to expand...

I have not paid for or even asked for any design services at all with respect to the SB chips. I have no desire to get gear labels, dealer buttons, or cut cards made for my set. In fact, if I had enough time, I'd replace the inlays on the entire set.

The reason I brought up the issue was on behalf of others who felt as though they were being taken advantage of but who didn't want to speak up about it.
 
RainmanTrail said:
Who gives a shit about the law though? This has nothing to do with what is or isn't legal. It has everything to do with what's "right". And most people here would feel as though they had been wronged if they were on the receiving end of Toby's arrangement.
Click to expand...

I have felt like I was taken-advantage-of before. It’s not a good feeling. But at this point in my life, I would be much more disappointed at myself for not clarifying terms and arrangements before making a large purchase.
 
RainmanTrail said:
I have not paid for or even asked for any design services at all with respect to the SB chips. I have no desire to get gear labels, dealer buttons, or cut cards made for my set. In fact, if I had enough time, I'd replace the inlays on the entire set.

The reason I brought up the issue was on behalf of others who felt as though they were being taken advantage of but who didn't want to speak up about it.
Click to expand...

White knight syndrome
 
BGinGA said:
In many ways, PCF is a large extended family -- a bunch of folks with one or more common bonds.

Just wouldn't seem like family if somebody wasn't arguing with somebody else over something.....
Click to expand...
All that's missing is a turkey on the table...
 
RainmanTrail said:
I have not paid for or even asked for any design services at all with respect to the SB chips. I have no desire to get gear labels, dealer buttons, or cut cards made for my set. In fact, if I had enough time, I'd replace the inlays on the entire set.
Click to expand...

I was wondering this, since I thought you said previously you werent looking to have anything done

I dont know if any of those people actually reached out to Toby and had a direct conversation explaining that they only bought one barrel and rack and were looking to re-use the same art in a very limited fashion. I also dont know if he told them to pound sand.

I do know that EVERY designer I have ever worked with on this site (and there have been a few) has been great to work with and always accommodating and reasonable for whatever task after the fact.
 
I'm not going to sit here and trade shit fires with the Masshole crew again. I'm done. I've said my piece. I won't be asking Toby for any design help. It sounds like he has all the work he needs within a 50 mile radius of Boston. Cheers
 
RainmanTrail said:
I'm not going to sit here and trade shit fires with the Masshole crew again. I'm done. I've said my piece. I won't be asking Toby for any design help. It sounds like he has all the work he needs within a 50 mile radius of Boston. Cheers
Click to expand...

Really? I think Im the only Masshole, and I thought we were good? didnt think there was any shit fires ignited.
 
inca911 said:
There are plenty of good members from MA on the forum, so probably better to not disparage everyone from the state.
Click to expand...

I agree. Some awesome people there as well. But there's enough assholes in bergs little crew to group at least some of them together.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Register

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Similar threads

ArielVer18
"I had a wonderful experience at the post office," said no one ever
Replies
27
Views
2K
Organista1
Organista1
TX_Golf_N_Poker
Help me finish my (mostly) 312 THC micro-stakes set
2
Replies
54
Views
3K
TX_Golf_N_Poker
TX_Golf_N_Poker
redwine
My thoughts after trying out 7 CPC molds
2 3
Replies
63
Views
7K
David Spragg
David Spragg
Machine
  • Sticky
New Members start here!
3 4 5
Replies
144
Views
23K
nosediceochate
N
PlaidDragon
Marketing Geniuses they Ain't
Replies
1
Views
230
upNdown
upNdown
Back
Top Bottom