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DeusEx

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Is something missing that would be helpful? Please let us know by adding to the post!

Help me with syntax on any / all of it, for perspicuity :sneaky:
perspicuity - an overly wordy word synonymous with 'clarity'


New members, WELCOME! and a hardy hello to you!

This is meant as a quick FAQ, all of these topics are discussed in depths you can't image, please use the search tool to dig deeper. You can think of this as a guided tour, careful dipping your toe in, its deep and it may go further than you can handle!


First things first, GET SAMPLES prior to making any purchases!
GET SAMPLES - GET SAMPLES - GET SAMPLES
As a community we try to recycle the samples they hold the value, from auctions, for sale, and even wanted posts. We really mean it, get samples! You'll hear it so much you'll think it's a sport chant - ROLLTIDE!

Index - In this post we'll discuss:
The types of chips and how they are made
General Cost per chip
Chip break downs (cash and tournament)
Nonstandard denominations
Standard Chip Colors
Demons Denoms vs Non denoms
Cards
Lingo
Shipping
Meetups
Group Buys
Random Questions
Bonus


Don't overlook the Resource area, it has things like the design tools (links below as well), color references, card info you never thought about!
Speaking of things you never thought about, but absolutely need to run a poker game, it's here

'Search' tutorial will go here

Types of chips:

I see so many different chips online, what is the difference, can I hot stamp dice chips?
Nope!

CrazyEddie other than being crazy (and awesome), has a three part post to get you started One, two, three (also the answer to that old Owl's question)


A brief highlight of 'molds'. There are quite a few, although some are significantly more popular than others, they ALL have a very intriguing and rich history. The mold refers to the outer edge of the chip and the recesses created during the chip making process. The nostalgia even makes it into ceramics as members want to honor the history!

Different molds have different feels, and sounds, you'll be surprised at level of passion and heated debates contained here in.

Peeks0364-31.jpg

Photo Credit: @Eloe2000 Please check out the full images of these CSQ molds

20211209_231827-012.jpeg

A ceramic chip with a faux scrown honoring TRK! (and a Maples legacy) label design by our members (@timinater)

We even have members celebrating dice chips molds :wtf:


This is a great resource for molds and spot patterns - courtesy of our own @Jeff

General cost per chip:

Low end plastics 0.05-0.15
Mid end plastic 0.35-0.45
Stock ceramic 0.50-0.75
Custom ceramic 0.30-1.00
Vintage clay 0.25-0.50+
High end plastic 0.75-2.50+
Stock/fantasy clay 2.00-4.00+
Casino clay 2.00-8.00 and up up up
Custom clay 3.00+ depending on complexity
(Thanks @allforcharity )

Chip break downs:

It is typically a security issue to run cash games and tournament games off of the same set. It could cost you significant money, or players.
I want to stress this point and discuss it further, but I'm trying not to overwhelm the post, Can someone find me a good post to link here please?

To adequately define what your chip break down should be, you ought to know how many people you want to be able to provide a bank for; how much bank you should have depends on how many people will be playing and the stakes of which you plan to play with.

You ought NOT say I want XXX chips what break down should I use? You can, are welcome to and members will try to assist.

I really like this chip break down thread by Quad Johnson
for tl;dr I think most would host a .25/.50 game, so here it is
25c/50c Mapping - $100 Max Buy In for 200 Big Blinds

Chip Denominations

25c/$1/$5/$25

Max Buy In Starting Stacks

8x 25c ($2)
18x $1 ($18)
16x $5 ($80)

Chips Needed - 600 Total Chips

100x 25c ($25)
250x $1 ($250)
175x $5 ($875)
75x $25 ($1,875)

Total Bank: $3,025

The intricacies of tournament design can be overwhelming, the dream of a huge chip stacks at the table seems amazing until you look at the duration times. How do you balance a reasonable about of time, with buy-ins and a starting stack that doesn't feel like a turbo or a luck machine simulation? I don't know! :eek:

First, I'd like to introduce the guy that might seem a little scary, he can be a little blunt and seem grumpy, he's just been awake for a little too long.

Wanted.jpg


BGinGA is very diligent and has contributed so much to the community, dare I say endless information for the quality our member's tournaments.

Here are a few (one, two) threads to get you started
The tl;dr to cover 10-person minimum chip count. I would prefer higher chip count, but the focus for this post is efficiency.
I highly recommend the following 400-chip set for a 10-player T25-base tournament:

120 x T25
120 x T100
50 x T500
75 x T1000 (includes 15x for T25 and t100 color-ups)
35 x T5000 (includes 5x for T500 color-ups, plus 30 extras to be used for stacks > 10K and re-buys/add-ons)
--------------
400 chips

This set supports 10 starting stacks from 5K up to 25K (12/12/5/6/x), includes sufficient chips for color-ups, and has enough T5000 chips to support 4xT5000 re-buys for 20K events. Stack breakdowns of 8/8/6/6/2 (or 8/8/4/7/2) are sub-optimal for single-table events, as they tend to promote tighter play, while also causing potential confusion and time-wastimg via excessive change-making. In addition, you need fewer T500 chips (never need more than 1 per bet) and more T1000 chips towards the middle and end of the event (after they replace the T100 as the workhorse chip). The extra chips are well-worth the cost to ensure smooth game play.

Sounds like you have a decent grasp already on how to color-up chips. Either the race-off or round-up method is fine (I prefer the latter, as it's faster and arguably more fair).

These are commonly used single-table payouts for friendly home games:
9-10 players: pays 3 places --50%-30%-20%, or 55%-30%-15%, or 60%-30%-10%
6-8 players: pays 2 places -- 60%-40%, or 65%-35%, or 70%-30%
5 or fewer: pays 1 place -- 100% WTA

Regarding blind structure and blind times, it all depends on how long you want your event to last. Every tournement will typically end around the time that there are a total of 20 big blinds in play on the table. If you have 10 players with 20K stacks, that means that there is 200K in chips in play, so the event should generally end no later than the 5000/10000 blind level (which also means that T1000 chips will never get colored-up, as they are still needed prior to that time).

The typical re-buy rate for a 200BB event is 25%-33%, or 2-4 players in a 10-player field. Smaller starting stacks (or fast/aggressive blind structures) can increase the re-buy ratio.

Re-buys can be allowed for any amount of time, but realistically, they start losing value as the blinds get larger. I generally don't offer re-buys that are smaller than 20BB at the time of purchase, and usually set a cut-off at between 25BB-40BB.

The following blind structure begins each player with 200 Big Blinds (relatively deep), and has consistent blind increases that range from 33% to 50%, averaging 40%::

L1 50/100
L2 75/150
L3 100/200
L4 150/300
remove T25 chips
L5 200/400
L6 300/600 (optional end re-buys - 33BB)
L7 400/800
L8 600/1200
break (optional end re-buys - 17BB)
L9 800/1600
L10 1100/2200
L11 1500/3000
L12 2000/4000
remove T100/T500 chips
L13 3000/6000
L14 4000/8000 *** typical EOT
L15 6000/12000
L16 8000/16000
L17 10000/20000

So the typical tournament will last no longer than 14-15 blind levels. The assigned blind level times will dicate how long the tournament will last:

15 minute blinds = 3:40 hours plus breaks
20 minute levels = 4:50 hours plus breaks
25 minute levels = 6:00 hours plus breaks

Nothing wrong with blind level times that aren't in increments of 5, either -- if you want the event to last around 4+ hours, use 17 or 18 minute levels.

Note that your structure also finishes in around 14 blind levels. The biggest differences between your structure and the one above is that your structure a) doubles the blinds with a 100% increase right out of the gate, cutting stacks in half in just 15 or 20 minutes, and b) contains a wider range of blind increases -- 25% to 67%, excluding that early 100% jump --averaging over 51% (vs just 40%).

Lastly, @tabletalker7 above offers excellent advice regarding establishing a set of defined tournament rules prior to the event, and referencing/enforcing them during play when needed.

Beyond threads and discussion, we have chip break down tools.

Odd Denominations (2,10,50)

Non standard denominations would include $2, $10, $50
These denoms slow the game down and are typically considered vanity and should not be in small / starter sets.
* disclaimer this is a controversial statement, and I've been called names for posting this myopic view
** it was out of passion for you to have the best information and experience
*** the above is true, but all in jest

**** some members host games with .50 / 2 / 10, we've got some odd balls!

The Story of the big bad wolf; Little pig, little pig let me in!
(a short story of how one evening went sour)
Odd denominations can cause confusion, contention and be inefficient? All in one post? No WAY!

Standard Colors

While custom chips can be of any (base) color the two primary standards are Vegas and California.

Denom
Vegas
Cali
1​
white​
blue​
5​
red​
yellow​
20​
yellow (orange)​
black​
25​
green​
purple​
100​
black​
white​
500​
purple​
grey (brown)​
1000​
orange (yellow)​
orange​

Quintessential Cali Set
Crown Plaza theme designed and commissioned by our members, offered in a group buy open to all members featuring casino quality plastics and that signature black 20 denom! - hubba hubba
photo by @RainmanTrail
Crown_Plaza_01.jpg


While anyone can see the appeal of solid chip colors, you probably knew that edge marks/spots make it easier to see the quantity of chips in stacks.
These edge marks have designations, here are a few of my favorites..
'bear claw' photo by @PocketAces '8v' photo by @chicubs1988
a_rose.jpeg
Binions T100 Face.jpeg


Denoms vs Non Denoms (its preference)

It is highly suggested to use denominations for sets, especially your first set, however non denomination chips can be useful in certain circumstances. One such situation would be for fracs (fractions of a dollar (or unit)). The case maybe you start with a .25 / .50 game, and later things change; with a non denom chip in use as a .25 chip you can now designate it as a .50 chip when the game grows / changes.

While denoms typically use currency as a unit type, we have members using other units! please don't judge us!

Cards
Poker or Bridge - Typically if you use a card shuffler Poker, if you hand shuffle Bridge. Holdem is Jumbo, 4+ cards some prefer standard. There are a ton of threads you can search for recommendations and in resources there is a card database with lots of info! Most people don't like 4 color pips on the table, only on the screen.

Design Services
Looking for help on designing custom chips? Check the Mock up and Design subforum, or maybe commission a design from a current member.
Just want to play around with chips and colors? CPC Design tool or Paulson's tool or Matsui tool

Lingo:
What is scrown vs CSQ, and why is TRK's insert better than any IHC? Finding it hard to read? we've got a Glossary
I caught a fish and it was this :7c::2d: big! Do you even emoji bro?

Shipping advise:
As you become more seasoned you may look for help on shipping! we got that!

Meetups:
Want to meet up with people getting drunk and throwing axes? How about local celbs featured on streaming casino games? Middle of nowhere lodges, with giant lakes, or frozen oasis that take snowmobiles to get to in actual Alaska?! YOU CAN! right here!

Group buys:
We try to take advantage of buying in bulk to lower costs for everyone, join us in some amazing chip or plaque purchases. We even have private group buys (referred to as NAGB), while not open to the public or all members they do end up bettering our experience and our overall chip agenda to get beautiful sets onto the table!

Random questions:
We seem to love random or not so random questions. How many shuffles does it take to randomize a spaded deck? @RainmanTrail has written a paper on it!

There are two magic numbers 7 and 12, read the post / paper for a more in-depth understanding

Learned behavior from other forums would prevent me from 'necroing' old threads, basically commenting on a post that is a year or two old, if you see something and want to add to it, we enjoy that here. Get involved, its a blast, our off topic threads will have you posting pictures of beer, whiskey, guns, and even your lawn! Here is my latest contribution to the Most Recent Purchase thread

Its been a long post, thinking of food? Getting hungry, what are you thinking about for dinner? :cool

Here's to you and flopping the nuts (unless you're playing PLO),
Cheers!
- DeusEx
 
Last edited:

Bill_Man618

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Cali colors get weird after $100 with many casinos using different colors for those denims. I'd argue that there isn't a standard color for those. The Vegas $20's are yellow or orange and the $1k's can be either yellow or orange depending on what color they used for the $20. Basically, if you use an orange $20 then you use a yellow $1k and vice versa. I would also have a section on the different molds and what makes them different. Finally, this should be sticked when it is done. I would age killed for a resource like this when I was starting out. Maybe include a NAGB section as well since I spent a lot of time trying to discern what it meant and why there was drama when I was new.
 

BSteck

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Coyote

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Nice effort and certainly commendable, but I 'm afraid you 're being too prescriptive.
"Odd" denominations can be fine if following the x4/5 rule, or even not.
Sure, everybody should know that maximum efficiency is achieved through the above rule, but there are niches in people's games - and/or pockets.
AO V2 10.png
 

DeusEx

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I, too, have had thoughts of pulling together a PCF FAQ. But general laziness has kept it from full completion and sharing with the community. Feel free to steal/use anything you find useful in it. Maybe someday someone will have the drive to finish one of these frickin things.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IE-20b7AwV7dnevU7EpMNQuk5L45NFtY42NrnZCW0-M/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks, I cherry picked it, and I plan to update the tourney stuff and pull links and what not out.

Nice effort and certainly commendable, but I 'm afraid you 're being too prescriptive.
"Odd" denominations can be fine if following the x4/5 rule, or even not.
Sure, everybody should know that maximum efficiency is achieved through the above rule, but there are niches in people's games - and/or pockets.
View attachment 854454
I don't think I'm being a prescriptivist, target audience often tries to calculate the minimum amount of chips and include non standard denoms, this does more harm than good. If new members don't understand chip break downs and are looking for advice on purchasing the minimum amount of chips, this would be a stumbling block for them.

I also don't go into if you're running an underground game, you'll want a different chip breakdown (due to the drop), I don't dive into frac theory and I'm trying not to blast a wall of text.

For the record I'm not against 7/12s, 2, 8, or a 10 denom, hate 50s but I'm good with 101!
 
Last edited:

DeusEx

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Updated need a little help please!

Members - I need help with a post/ thread highlighting re-using cash chips and tournament chips please!
Also a search tutorial
 

SeenRed

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Location
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Is something missing that would be helpful? Please let us know by adding to the post!

Help me with syntax on any / all of it, for perspicuity :sneaky:
perspicuity - an overly wordy word synonymous with 'clarity'


New members, WELCOME! and a hardy hello to you!

This is meant as a quick FAQ, all of these topics are discussed in depths you can't image, please use the search tool to dig deeper. You can think of this as a guided tour, careful dipping your toe in, its deep and it may go further than you can handle!


First things first, GET SAMPLES prior to making any purchases!
GET SAMPLES - GET SAMPLES - GET SAMPLES
As a community we try to recycle the samples they hold the value, from auctions, for sale, and even wanted posts. We really mean it, get samples! You'll hear it so much you'll think it's a sport chant - ROLLTIDE!

Index - In this post we'll discuss:
The types of chips and how they are made
Chip break downs (cash and tournament)
Nonstandard denominations
Standard Chip Colors
Demons Denoms vs Non denoms
Cards
Lingo
Shipping
Meetups
Group Buys
Random Questions
Bonus


Don't overlook the Resource area, it has things like the design tools (links below as well), color references, card info you never thought about!
Speaking of things you never thought about, but absolutely need to run a poker game, it's here

'Search' tutorial will go here

Types of chips:

I see so many different chips online, what is the difference, can I hot stamp dice chips?
Nope!

CrazyEddie other than being crazy (and awesome), has a three part post to get you started One, two, three (also the answer to that old Owl's question)


A brief highlight of 'molds'. There are quite a few, although some are significantly more popular than others, they ALL have a very intriguing and rich history. The mold refers to the outer edge of the chip and the recesses created during the chip making process. The nostalgia even makes it into ceramics as members want to honor the history!

Different molds have different feels, and sounds, you'll be surprised at level of passion and heated debates contained here in.

View attachment 854921
Photo Credit: @Eloe2000 Please check out the full images of these CSQ molds

View attachment 854927
A ceramic chip with a faux scrown honoring TRK! (and a Maples legacy) label design by our members (@timinater)

We even have members celebrating dice chips molds :wtf:


This is a great resource for molds and spot patterns - courtesy of our own @Jeff

Chip break downs:

It is typically a security issue to run cash games and tournament games off of the same set. It could cost you significant money, or players.
I want to stress this point and discuss it further, but I'm trying not to overwhelm the post, Can someone find me a good post to link here please?

To adequately define what your chip break down should be, you ought to know how many people you want to be able to provide a bank for; how much bank you should have depends on how many people will be playing and the stakes of which you plan to play with.

You ought NOT say I want XXX chips what break down should I use? You can, are welcome to and members will try to assist.

I really like this chip break down thread by Quad Johnson
for tl;dr I think most would host a .25/.50 game, so here it is

The intricacies of tournament design can be overwhelming, the dream of a huge chip stacks at the table seems amazing until you look at the duration times. How do you balance a reasonable about of time, with buy-ins and a starting stack that doesn't feel like a turbo or a luck machine simulation? I don't know! :eek:

First, I'd like to introduce the guy that might seem a little scary, he can be a little blunt and seem grumpy, he's just been awake for a little too long.

View attachment 854896

BGinGA is very diligent and has contributed so much to the community, dare I say endless information for the quality our member's tournaments.

Here are a few (one, two) threads to get you started
The tl;dr to cover 10-person minimum chip count. I would prefer higher chip count, but the focus for this post is efficiency.

Beyond threads and discussion, we have chip break down tools.

Odd Denominations (2,10,50)

Non standard denominations would include $2, $10, $50
These denoms slow the game down and are typically considered vanity and should not be in small / starter sets.
* disclaimer this is a controversial statement, and I've been called names for posting this myopic view
** it was out of passion for you to have the best information and experience
*** the above is true, but all in jest

**** some members host games with .50 / 2 / 10, we've got some odd balls!

Standard Colors

While custom chips can be of any (base) color the two primary standards are Vegas and California.

Denom
Vegas
Cali
1​
white​
blue​
5​
red​
yellow​
20​
yellow (orange)​
black​
25​
green​
purple​
100​
black​
white​
500​
purple​
grey (brown)​
1000​
orange (yellow)​
orange​

Quintessential Cali Set
Crown Plaza theme designed and commissioned by our members, offered in a group buy open to all members featuring casino quality plastics and that signature black 20 denom! - hubba hubba
photo by @RainmanTrail
View attachment 855009

While anyone can see the appeal of solid chip colors, you probably knew that edge marks/spots make it easier to see the quantity of chips in stacks.
These edge marks have designations, here are a few of my favorites..
'bear claw' photo by @PocketAces '8v' photo by @chicubs1988
View attachment 854990 View attachment 854996

Denoms vs Non Denoms (its preference)

It is highly suggested to use denominations for sets, especially your first set, however non denomination chips can be useful in certain circumstances. One such situation would be for fracs (fractions of a dollar (or unit)). The case maybe you start with a .25 / .50 game, and later things change; with a non denom chip in use as a .25 chip you can now designate it as a .50 chip when the game grows / changes.

While denoms typically use currency as a unit type, we have members using other units! please don't judge us!

Cards
Poker or Bridge - Typically if you use a card shuffler Poker, if you hand shuffle Bridge. Holdem is Jumbo, 4+ cards some prefer standard. There are a ton of threads you can search for recommendations and in resources there is a card database with lots of info! Most people don't like 4 color pips on the table, only on the screen.

Design Services
Looking for help on designing custom chips? Check the Mock up and Design subforum, or maybe commission a design from a current member.
Just want to play around with chips and colors? CPC Design tool or Paulson's tool or Matsui tool

Lingo:
What is scrown vs CSQ, and why is TRK's insert better than any IHC? Finding it hard to read? we've got a Glossary
I caught a fish and it was this :7c::2d: big! Do you even emoji bro?

Shipping advise:
As you become more seasoned you may look for help on shipping! we got that!

Meetups:
Want to meet up with people getting drunk and throwing axes? How about local celbs featured on streaming casino games? Middle of nowhere lodges, with giant lakes, or frozen oasis that take snowmobiles to get to in actual Alaska?! YOU CAN! right here!

Group buys:
We try to take advantage of buying in bulk to lower costs for everyone, join us in some amazing chip or plaque purchases. We even have private group buys (referred to as NAGB), while not open to the public or all members they do end up bettering our experience and our overall chip agenda to get beautiful sets onto the table!

Random questions:
We seem to love random or not so random questions. How many shuffles does it take to randomize a spaded deck? @RainmanTrail has written a paper on it!

There are two magic numbers 7 and 12, read the post / paper for a more in-depth understanding

Learned behavior from other forums would prevent me from 'necroing' old threads, basically commenting on a post that is a year or two old, if you see something and want to add to it, we enjoy that here. Get involved, its a blast, our off topic threads will have you posting pictures of beer, whiskey, guns, and even your lawn! Here is my latest contribution to the Most Recent Purchase thread

Its been a long post, thinking of food? Getting hungry, what are you thinking about for dinner? :cool

Here's to you and flopping the nuts (unless you're playing PLO),
Cheers!
- DeusEx

Wow…a ton of useful information here…thanks for putting it all together in one place!

Red
 

R0ACH_XCVII

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In regards to “High End Plastic” & “Vintage Clay” chips,
What chip manufactures would be an example of the two?
 

DeusEx

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That's a good question, try using the search tool to find the answer ;)

I'm on my mobile, and this thread is designed to guide you in the right direction, not answer all the questions.

One example of high end is Matsui, and clay would be cpc
 

allforcharity

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In regards to “High End Plastic” & “Vintage Clay” chips,
What chip manufactures would be an example of the two?

Matsui, Bud Jones, Abbiati, and Bourgogne et Grasset are considered the very high end of plastics (excluding jetons and plaques).

Vintage clay would be ASM and various other manufacturers and distributors active from the 1920s through 1950s.
 
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