ArielVer18
Flush
Some of you may remember my post in the Mailing Pr0n Showcase Thread: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/34406/post-2026271
I want to share the horror I had to go through to get a refund. Names have been changed to protect their anonymity, with the exception of the sender because he knows I’m posting this to share with the PCF community. If this is too long, there’s a TL;DR at the end.
Standard PCF Classified Transaction
In October 2022, @Northern Paladin posted a For Sale ad. I expressed my interest in purchasing it. Since I understand international shipping from Switzerland isn’t cheap, I expressed in PM that I was patient and that there was no rush to ship out my chips. He could take his time to find other things he was sending stateside and combine my chips in the package. I even joked that if I end up reshipping things to US chippers, he doesn’t have to worry about committing light tax evasion by under-declaring the value of the package since Americans don’t pay customs or import fees on most inexpensive items coming into the states.
In November 2022, I received a tracking number. I also received instructions to ship two small packages to two other stateside chippers.
Delivery Day
On Saturday, Dec 3, 2022, a USPS mail carrier rang my doorbell. In her hand was an opened cardboard box containing nothing but shredded Swiss newspaper. Package was stamped with a few "received without contents" and "received unseal." These stamps were likely my local post office's way of showing this poor condition was how they received it.
I was shocked and appalled beyond recognition. My eyes widened and my breath caught in my throat. My thoughts raced as I struggled to process what I was seeing and hearing. I rewatched my front door camera footage and saw myself unable to string together coherent sentences. Here’s the thing: I've dealt with porch pirates and burglarized mailboxes before, but never had I ever had a missing shipment from a non-business entity. If this was an Amazon.com or any other B2C internet purchase, all I had to do was to complain to the seller and they would refund me the full product cost. If a credit card was stolen from my mailbox and fraudulently used, one simple phone call to my bank and they’ll assure me that I’m not responsible for any fraudulent transactions and send me a new replacement credit card. However, things aren’t so simple for a forum purchase. I paid with PayPal “Friends and Family,” so technically the seller is a friend or family member, right?
The mail carrier wanted me to sign for the “package.” She used her USPS scan gun to scan the package DELIVERED and advised me to file a claim.
Missing Mail Search Claim
Later that night, I PMed @Northern Paladin about the situation and spent some time researching how to proceed. Firstly, I filed a Missing Mail Search Claim. I do have a couple photos of how it was packed and what was supposed to be inside. I shared those photos with USPS in addition to photos of how the package was delivered. This wasn’t the first time I purchased from this PCF member so I know he habitually spends a lot of time and effort carefully bombproofing packages. I also downloaded the video footage of the mail carrier handing me an empty box, took a screencap, and included it in the Search Claim.
A little after midnight Monday morning of December 5th, I received an email from USPS saying they’re closing my Missing Mail Search Claim because the tracking information indicate the package was delivered
I suspect this was an automated notification and requested the search to be reopened. As of this writing, USPS is still actively searching for the package. I get an email update approximately once a month saying they haven’t found anything yet, but at least they’re not closing the claim. I have no clue how hard they’re looking. Who knows? Perhaps they have at least four detectives down in the crime lab working in shifts?
How to Proceed
On Monday, Dec 5, 2022, @Northern Paladin confirmed the package was insured for 500 francs and that he started an insurance claim on his side. He passed along instructions from the Swiss Post, specifically that I needed to report the damage to my local postal service in an “internationally recognized report (form CN24)” and that I must “present the content found as well as the complete packaging and padding to the local post office.” He provided me with a screenshot of the Swiss Post email and graciously translated the French to English.
The instructions from the Swiss Post seemed similar to what I was able to find on the USPS website. According to the USPS website (https://www.usps.com/help/international-claims.htm), this is what to do when we receive a damaged international shipment:
These instructions are accurate as of this writing early 2023. If anyone in the future is reading this, please refer to the USPS website for the most recent information.
Other than no mentions of form CN24, the USPS instructions seem similar to what Swiss Post seems to want. Based on a cursory internet search, if this was a domestic situation, a claim can be started online and USPS will provide further instructions on how to proceed. If I was the sender of a damaged international package, I can also start the claim process online. However, there is no online process on USPS for receiving a damaged international shipment.
By the way, around this time @Northern Paladin started a group chat with the two US chippers I was supposed to reship to so we can all be brought into the loop.
Let’s get that Damage Report
On Dec 8, 2022, armed with the knowledge that I’m not limited to my local Post Office and can go to any Post Office, I went to one conveniently close to my work. I presented the empty cardboard box and said to the front desk clerk, “I received a damaged international package and I would like to file a Damage Report.”
Luckily, a supervisor was within earshot, heard what I said, and told the clerk that I was looking for a “2856.” I thought to myself, “Wow, he has the form number memorized, this process should be a breeze.”
The front clerk wasn’t able to quickly find the form on her computer, so the supervisor asked me to come inside into his office so he could assist me further. He introduced himself as Brian.
He slowly typed up the 2856 report (hunt and peck typist, ugh), printed it out, and somehow accidentally deleted the form without submitting. There was "INTERNAL USE ONLY" all over my printed copy of the 2856, so I don't think I was supposed to receive a copy anyways.
I asked for a 3831 since that's what the USPS website said I was supposed to receive. Again, Form 2856 is the damage report while Form 3831 is the receipt of the damage report. He filled out a 2856 again on his computer, filled out the 3831 by hand, and gave me a 3831 as a receipt. Unfortunately, Brian wasn't able to click SUBMIT on his computer for some reason. Perhaps a temporary technical error. He assured me that he has a saved draft of the report and will keep trying to submit it for the next few days.
I shared PS Form 3831 with @Northern Paladin and he shared it with Swiss Post. The Swiss Post told him the claim should be resolved by the end of the year.
The next day, I called USPS wanting to verify the Damage Report was properly submitted. Unfortunately, I had to navigate the excruciating phone tree. I hung up and gave up before getting to a human agent trusting Brian from yesterday’s interaction would promptly submit the Damage Report.
oof misplaced trust
Follow-Up
On January 3, 2023, @Northern Paladin mentioned that the Swiss Post was still waiting for some crucial information from USPS. They extended the case’s expected date of resolution from the end of 2022 to the end of January 2023. Swiss services told him that USPS was one of the entities with which they had the most problems to deal with in recent years.
Since it sounded like a USPS related roadblock, I called USPS. This time, I begrudgingly advanced through the phone tree to get to a human agent instead of hanging up and giving up.
Unfortunately, the phone representative was unable to find the Damage Report I supposedly requested on December 8th. As I was talking on the phone and reviewing the receipts and documents, I noticed a typo on the PS Form 3831 I received on December 8th. The USPS supervisor Brian that day made a fat fingered data entry error! One of the numbers in the tracking number was off by one digit!
For example, if CQ666666666US was the real tracking number, the tracking number I saw written on the 3831 form was CQ665666666US
One may realize this typo may be the main reason why Brian was unable to submit the Damage Report back on December 8th, 2022.
I mentioned this typo to the person on the phone. Since he was unable to verify any information I was describing, he gave me a different USPS phone number to call that’ll direct me to a different department who may be able to offer further assistance. However, since I’ve been on the phone for almost an hour and it’s after 8PM ET, I’d have to call back the next day.
The next day, January 4th, I called USPS again. The phone representative this time was more helpful and was able to see the inquiry from the Swiss Post regarding tracking number CQ666666666US from mid-December in the USPS system. Who knows why yesterday’s representative was unable to see it.
I once again proposed my hypothesis why the damage report may not be showing up under the correct tracking number. As a result, she said she’ll leave an internal note in the system that the Damage Report the Swiss Post is looking for may be found under the invalid tracking number CQ665666666US. However, since she didn’t have much faith that an internal note would do anything, she suggested that I go back to a post office to get a new damage report.
Luckily I still had the empty cardboard box in my possession. A fun stress free mid-day road trip to the post office was exactly what I had in mind
Resubmission Attempt
This time I chose to go to the post office that normally services my home address. At this new post office, after a short wait, I plopped the empty cardboard box on the front counter and said to the clerk, “I received this damaged international package and I would like a 3831 for a 2856.”
Hindsight, it was a mistake to use post office verbiage and jargon because I may have came off like a smart-ass.
The front clerk seemed to have a vague idea of what I wanted, but she wasn’t confident so she rang the bell to escalate my inquiry to the post office’s supervisor.
Let’s call this post office’s supervisor Pam. After reviewing my predicament, she claimed I must file a claim online. I suspect there was a misunderstanding, so I clarified that I am not filing an insurance claim, nor do I expect to receive any recompense for any postal claims. I simply would like a Damage Report filed on the internal USPS system for a package I received from Switzerland so Swiss Post can move forward with the sender's insurance claim.
Pam insisted once again that I had to start the claim online and to bring a letter to the post office from that process. When I asked her if she had any literature to support her assertion, she directed me to the USPS website.
Again, unless I’m misunderstanding the procedure, in accordance with the USPS website (https://www.usps.com/help/international-claims.htm), the post office was supposed to verify the damage, fill out PS Form 2856, then provide me with a PS Form 3831.
When I showed this webpage to her on my phone, she doubled down to insist that she was correct and that I was wrong. She even claimed that it's possible USPS.com can show incorrect information on a mobile phone and the correct information on a desktop computer
At this point, I was incredulous at how someone can make such an outrageous claim. She belligerently repeated that there's nothing she can do to help me. She even looked up the tracking information related to my package. Since there was no damage reported on the tracking information (no shit! It was scanned DELIVERED and I was there!), she claimed she cannot help file a damage report.
It befuddled me how one can be so obtuse. Whether or not the package was damaged was not in question. It was clearly damaged beyond a reasonable doubt! Was she concerned I removed the content and scuffed up the cardboard packaging in an attempt to file a fraudulent postal insurance claim? In a futile attempt to make her see reason, I showed her an uninterrupted and timestamped security camera video of a mail carrier handing me an empty cardboard box and asking me to sign for and acknowledge the damage. Pam wasn’t interested in viewing my video, stated she no longer cared, put her hands in the air, refused to further assist me, and told me to leave.
I asked for her full name. She wrote it down on a piece of paper with intentionally bad penmanship. However, I was able to match her chicken scratch to an employee on Linkedin and negative reviews at this post office on Yelp.
Resubmission Attempt 2: Electric Boogaloo
Steaming, I drove back to the post office I went to back on December 8th. I told the front desk clerk, “I received a damaged international package and I would like to file a Damage Report.”
She unenthusiastically said, “Oh, you need to do that online.”
“No, please, I RECEIVED a damaged international package. Is Brian here? He helped me last time.”
“Oh, one moment.”
She went to the back and reappeared a minute later.
“Brian is on the phone right now, but if you’d like to wait on the side, he can help you when he’s done.”
I stepped to the side in front of a dystopian looking gray door marked “Employee Only” and stood there waiting for half an hour.
Eventually, Abdul came out to greet me. I could tell from the start he was uninterested in helping me. He told me Brian is busy, but he is privy to my situation and asked me how he may help.
I was doubtful he was actually privy to my situation in full detail, so I started describing my predicament from the beginning. Abdul interrupted me to say that Brian remembers me from last month and already did a good job filing the damage report. Abdul wondered why I was back.
At this point I’m struggling to stay assertive and polite so I felt the need to drop some compliments to ensure Abdul does not see me as a rude bitter troublesome customer and tell me to leave like Pam did to me.
I insisted Brian’s integrity is not in question and that I’m thankful for his assistance last month. However, after reviewing the documents I received, I noticed a typo that may be causing an issue that I, the sender, and Swiss Post are experiencing.
He went into the back doing god knows what and came back out after ten minutes.
He verified that he can see the inquiry in the USPS system from the Swiss Post regarding this tracking number. He also claimed that, by looking up my home address, there is already a damage report uploaded mid-December.
Okay, that’s great! Now I know there’s a damage report related to my home address. I told him that everyone I’ve interacted with so far have been helpful and provided information I previously did not know, except for Pam from my local post office who provided me blatantly incorrect information. However, does the Swiss Post know to look for the damage report under my home address? May you please submit a Damage Report under the correct tracking number?
He thanked me for the compliment. Regarding Pam, he suggested I file a complaint with the consumer affairs department. He ripped a corner from my Form 3831 and wrote down a phone number: 1-800-ASK-USPS
I was fuming! I know that phone number is the number I’ve been calling the last few weeks because it’s the general customer support phone number. Is this a way to bounce me to a different USPS department or representative as a way to get me to go away?
By the way, this interaction reminded me of a story I heard where a disgruntled customer confronted a delivery driver of FedEx, a private shipping company, regarding the whereabouts of the customer’s package. However, the driver had no information regarding the customer’s situation and suggested he call Fedex for further assistance. The phone number?
The driver slowly said, “one.” Pause. “Eight hundred.” Pause. “Go.” Pause. “F–”
“You’re tell me to go fuck myself?!” The customer interrupted.
“No no! It’s 1-800-GO-FEDEX! It’s printed on my truck. Look!”
Anyways, back to my situation, in a soft calming voice that was clearly brimming with impatience, I once again clarified my situation.
“I’m looking for a Damage Report to be filed. Based on my countless recent interactions, I now have memorized that this is Form 2856. It should’ve been done last month by your office, but due to a data entry error with the tracking number, it’s possible the completed report was never uploaded to the USPS internal system. Most importantly, the sender told me his country’s postal office in Switzerland was unable to see the report. The Swiss sender is a friend, not some faceless cooperation, which is why I’m exerting so much effort to get this done in accordance with international postal standards. If this was a regular internet purchase, wouldn’t I just pester the seller for a refund and tell him to pound sand if he wanted me to waste time running errands? I’m not filing an insurance claim, nor do I expect any compensation from any insurance payout. The sender will get all that, if any. However, he desperately needs the help of our United States postal service. You already told me you saw the inquiry from the Swiss Post. This Damage Report is exactly what they’re requesting. Therefore, please, would you be so kind as to submit the exact same information under the correct tracking number?”
At this point, Abdul perused my receipt for a Damage Report (the Form 3831) and finally acknowledged the typo. He took my empty cardboard box, Form 3831, and other relevant documents (original and copies) I had on me to the back to fill out a new Damage Report.
After what felt like 15 minutes, he came back out holding only my old Form 3831, Receipt for Article(s) Damaged in Mails. The receipt had been amended with the current date and Abdul’s signature in a different colored pen. He assured this was sufficient as a receipt to prove he filed a Damage Report in the internal USPS system. He stated his office will keep the empty cardboard box in case any postal entity wishes to conduct further investigation, but I was free to come back to retrieve it after the resolution of the Swiss insurance claim. I thanked him for his assistance, wished him a Happy New Year, and left.
The total time wasted at these two post offices? Two hours.
Consumer Affairs Complaint
On January 13th, while it’s not directly related to resolving the insurance claim, I felt it wouldn’t hurt to file an online personnel complaint against Pam. I remember Abdul told me the Consumer Affairs department of the USPS handles these complaints, so I was easily able to find their contact information here: https://postalpro.usps.com/ppro-tools/consumer-affairs
This department is undergoing a name change and should be known as the Consumer & Industry Contact department in the near future.
Someone in Sacramento (state capital of California) called a couple times to acknowledge the complaint and asked me to provide some more additional information, which I did, but I do not care enough to follow up to find out if Pam received a stern talk, training regarding her behavior, or whatever.
Another Follow Up
On the morning of January 20, 2023, @Northern Paladin told me the insurance claim was denied. He shared some email exchanges between him and the Swiss Post as they attempted multiple times to get the CN24 report from USPS. Since no such report materialized, “Poste CH SA décline toute responsabilité.”
Why did USPS not want to submit Form CN24? Why did I keep talking about 2856, 3831, and other mumbo jumbo numbers that did not seem to have anything to do with what he and the Swiss Post requested? Why didn’t I try harder, or at all, to get a CN24 when that was the first thing he asked of me weeks ago?
I imagine he was as furious as I was about this entire situation.
I assured him that everyone I asked did not know what a Form CN24 is. Based on a cursory internet search, Form CN24 is a damage report. When I ask for a “damage report,” USPS representatives know it as PS Form 2856. I strongly suspect, on the international stage, these two forms are exactly the same.
I picked up the phone and dialed USPS. This local post office already fucked up once with a typo. What is their excuse the second time?
I wasn’t sure if it was my imagination or not, but it appeared the phone tree had changed since the last time I called because I had a harder time getting through to a human agent. Eventually, I got in touch with a very friendly sounding USPS representative.
She saw that Swiss Post had emailed my local post office supervisor to send a hard copy of the Damage Report on or around January 13th. This date was a few days after my most recent visit to the post office on January 4th about this situation, so the timeline matches up. However, she did not see a reply back to the Swiss Post, so it's possible my local post office either didn't see the email or was ignoring it.
Is this international interagency insurance claim going to go south because ONE person did not want to respond to his email in a timely manner? Who was this “supervisor at a local post office” anyways? Brian? Abdul? Oh god… Pam?!
Since there are countless post offices within a 50 mile radius, on the off chance the Swiss Post was sending an email to the wrong person, I told the representative Abdul was the one who most recently helped me file a damage report and the physical address of the post office where he worked.
The phone representative also saw internal notes in the system of all my previous calls related to this tracking number. I confirmed that while yes I have called many times, I still felt like I didn’t call frequently enough to have this case resolved in a timely manner. I shared my sense of disquietude that this process was taking an unreasonably long time and that I was concerned the Swiss insurance claim will be denied simply due to an expired statute of limitation. While I currently cannot find the source, I vaguely remember that any damage must be reported within 60 days from the mailing date. Had I called more frequently to confirm things were progressing in a timely manner, this situation could have been resolved much sooner.
She made a note that I started this Damage Report request on December 8, 2022 in case someone at USPS was intentionally stalling to drag out this process. She then told me she would, after this call, unhook herself from the call center queue to send an email to the international department that is handling this case.
Based on her description, I assumed Swiss Post did not get a response from my local post office about a hard copy of the Damage Report, so Swiss Post told @Northern Paladin the insurance claim is denied
EDIT: spelling and grammar
I want to share the horror I had to go through to get a refund. Names have been changed to protect their anonymity, with the exception of the sender because he knows I’m posting this to share with the PCF community. If this is too long, there’s a TL;DR at the end.
Standard PCF Classified Transaction
In October 2022, @Northern Paladin posted a For Sale ad. I expressed my interest in purchasing it. Since I understand international shipping from Switzerland isn’t cheap, I expressed in PM that I was patient and that there was no rush to ship out my chips. He could take his time to find other things he was sending stateside and combine my chips in the package. I even joked that if I end up reshipping things to US chippers, he doesn’t have to worry about committing light tax evasion by under-declaring the value of the package since Americans don’t pay customs or import fees on most inexpensive items coming into the states.
In November 2022, I received a tracking number. I also received instructions to ship two small packages to two other stateside chippers.
Delivery Day
On Saturday, Dec 3, 2022, a USPS mail carrier rang my doorbell. In her hand was an opened cardboard box containing nothing but shredded Swiss newspaper. Package was stamped with a few "received without contents" and "received unseal." These stamps were likely my local post office's way of showing this poor condition was how they received it.
I was shocked and appalled beyond recognition. My eyes widened and my breath caught in my throat. My thoughts raced as I struggled to process what I was seeing and hearing. I rewatched my front door camera footage and saw myself unable to string together coherent sentences. Here’s the thing: I've dealt with porch pirates and burglarized mailboxes before, but never had I ever had a missing shipment from a non-business entity. If this was an Amazon.com or any other B2C internet purchase, all I had to do was to complain to the seller and they would refund me the full product cost. If a credit card was stolen from my mailbox and fraudulently used, one simple phone call to my bank and they’ll assure me that I’m not responsible for any fraudulent transactions and send me a new replacement credit card. However, things aren’t so simple for a forum purchase. I paid with PayPal “Friends and Family,” so technically the seller is a friend or family member, right?
The mail carrier wanted me to sign for the “package.” She used her USPS scan gun to scan the package DELIVERED and advised me to file a claim.
Missing Mail Search Claim
Later that night, I PMed @Northern Paladin about the situation and spent some time researching how to proceed. Firstly, I filed a Missing Mail Search Claim. I do have a couple photos of how it was packed and what was supposed to be inside. I shared those photos with USPS in addition to photos of how the package was delivered. This wasn’t the first time I purchased from this PCF member so I know he habitually spends a lot of time and effort carefully bombproofing packages. I also downloaded the video footage of the mail carrier handing me an empty box, took a screencap, and included it in the Search Claim.
A little after midnight Monday morning of December 5th, I received an email from USPS saying they’re closing my Missing Mail Search Claim because the tracking information indicate the package was delivered
I suspect this was an automated notification and requested the search to be reopened. As of this writing, USPS is still actively searching for the package. I get an email update approximately once a month saying they haven’t found anything yet, but at least they’re not closing the claim. I have no clue how hard they’re looking. Who knows? Perhaps they have at least four detectives down in the crime lab working in shifts?
How to Proceed
On Monday, Dec 5, 2022, @Northern Paladin confirmed the package was insured for 500 francs and that he started an insurance claim on his side. He passed along instructions from the Swiss Post, specifically that I needed to report the damage to my local postal service in an “internationally recognized report (form CN24)” and that I must “present the content found as well as the complete packaging and padding to the local post office.” He provided me with a screenshot of the Swiss Post email and graciously translated the French to English.
The instructions from the Swiss Post seemed similar to what I was able to find on the USPS website. According to the USPS website (https://www.usps.com/help/international-claims.htm), this is what to do when we receive a damaged international shipment:
- Physically present whatever I received to a Post Office for inspection
- Post Office will verify the damage
- Post Office will fill out the internal document PS Form 2856, Damage Report of Insured Article and Contents
- I will receive a completed PS Form 3831, Receipt for Article(s) Damaged in Mails
- If the package was insured, the reimbursement will go to the sender
These instructions are accurate as of this writing early 2023. If anyone in the future is reading this, please refer to the USPS website for the most recent information.
Other than no mentions of form CN24, the USPS instructions seem similar to what Swiss Post seems to want. Based on a cursory internet search, if this was a domestic situation, a claim can be started online and USPS will provide further instructions on how to proceed. If I was the sender of a damaged international package, I can also start the claim process online. However, there is no online process on USPS for receiving a damaged international shipment.
By the way, around this time @Northern Paladin started a group chat with the two US chippers I was supposed to reship to so we can all be brought into the loop.
Let’s get that Damage Report
On Dec 8, 2022, armed with the knowledge that I’m not limited to my local Post Office and can go to any Post Office, I went to one conveniently close to my work. I presented the empty cardboard box and said to the front desk clerk, “I received a damaged international package and I would like to file a Damage Report.”
Luckily, a supervisor was within earshot, heard what I said, and told the clerk that I was looking for a “2856.” I thought to myself, “Wow, he has the form number memorized, this process should be a breeze.”
The front clerk wasn’t able to quickly find the form on her computer, so the supervisor asked me to come inside into his office so he could assist me further. He introduced himself as Brian.
He slowly typed up the 2856 report (hunt and peck typist, ugh), printed it out, and somehow accidentally deleted the form without submitting. There was "INTERNAL USE ONLY" all over my printed copy of the 2856, so I don't think I was supposed to receive a copy anyways.
I asked for a 3831 since that's what the USPS website said I was supposed to receive. Again, Form 2856 is the damage report while Form 3831 is the receipt of the damage report. He filled out a 2856 again on his computer, filled out the 3831 by hand, and gave me a 3831 as a receipt. Unfortunately, Brian wasn't able to click SUBMIT on his computer for some reason. Perhaps a temporary technical error. He assured me that he has a saved draft of the report and will keep trying to submit it for the next few days.
I shared PS Form 3831 with @Northern Paladin and he shared it with Swiss Post. The Swiss Post told him the claim should be resolved by the end of the year.
The next day, I called USPS wanting to verify the Damage Report was properly submitted. Unfortunately, I had to navigate the excruciating phone tree. I hung up and gave up before getting to a human agent trusting Brian from yesterday’s interaction would promptly submit the Damage Report.
oof misplaced trust
Follow-Up
On January 3, 2023, @Northern Paladin mentioned that the Swiss Post was still waiting for some crucial information from USPS. They extended the case’s expected date of resolution from the end of 2022 to the end of January 2023. Swiss services told him that USPS was one of the entities with which they had the most problems to deal with in recent years.
Since it sounded like a USPS related roadblock, I called USPS. This time, I begrudgingly advanced through the phone tree to get to a human agent instead of hanging up and giving up.
Unfortunately, the phone representative was unable to find the Damage Report I supposedly requested on December 8th. As I was talking on the phone and reviewing the receipts and documents, I noticed a typo on the PS Form 3831 I received on December 8th. The USPS supervisor Brian that day made a fat fingered data entry error! One of the numbers in the tracking number was off by one digit!
For example, if CQ666666666US was the real tracking number, the tracking number I saw written on the 3831 form was CQ665666666US
One may realize this typo may be the main reason why Brian was unable to submit the Damage Report back on December 8th, 2022.
I mentioned this typo to the person on the phone. Since he was unable to verify any information I was describing, he gave me a different USPS phone number to call that’ll direct me to a different department who may be able to offer further assistance. However, since I’ve been on the phone for almost an hour and it’s after 8PM ET, I’d have to call back the next day.
The next day, January 4th, I called USPS again. The phone representative this time was more helpful and was able to see the inquiry from the Swiss Post regarding tracking number CQ666666666US from mid-December in the USPS system. Who knows why yesterday’s representative was unable to see it.
I once again proposed my hypothesis why the damage report may not be showing up under the correct tracking number. As a result, she said she’ll leave an internal note in the system that the Damage Report the Swiss Post is looking for may be found under the invalid tracking number CQ665666666US. However, since she didn’t have much faith that an internal note would do anything, she suggested that I go back to a post office to get a new damage report.
Luckily I still had the empty cardboard box in my possession. A fun stress free mid-day road trip to the post office was exactly what I had in mind
Resubmission Attempt
This time I chose to go to the post office that normally services my home address. At this new post office, after a short wait, I plopped the empty cardboard box on the front counter and said to the clerk, “I received this damaged international package and I would like a 3831 for a 2856.”
Hindsight, it was a mistake to use post office verbiage and jargon because I may have came off like a smart-ass.
The front clerk seemed to have a vague idea of what I wanted, but she wasn’t confident so she rang the bell to escalate my inquiry to the post office’s supervisor.
Let’s call this post office’s supervisor Pam. After reviewing my predicament, she claimed I must file a claim online. I suspect there was a misunderstanding, so I clarified that I am not filing an insurance claim, nor do I expect to receive any recompense for any postal claims. I simply would like a Damage Report filed on the internal USPS system for a package I received from Switzerland so Swiss Post can move forward with the sender's insurance claim.
Pam insisted once again that I had to start the claim online and to bring a letter to the post office from that process. When I asked her if she had any literature to support her assertion, she directed me to the USPS website.
Again, unless I’m misunderstanding the procedure, in accordance with the USPS website (https://www.usps.com/help/international-claims.htm), the post office was supposed to verify the damage, fill out PS Form 2856, then provide me with a PS Form 3831.
When I showed this webpage to her on my phone, she doubled down to insist that she was correct and that I was wrong. She even claimed that it's possible USPS.com can show incorrect information on a mobile phone and the correct information on a desktop computer
At this point, I was incredulous at how someone can make such an outrageous claim. She belligerently repeated that there's nothing she can do to help me. She even looked up the tracking information related to my package. Since there was no damage reported on the tracking information (no shit! It was scanned DELIVERED and I was there!), she claimed she cannot help file a damage report.
It befuddled me how one can be so obtuse. Whether or not the package was damaged was not in question. It was clearly damaged beyond a reasonable doubt! Was she concerned I removed the content and scuffed up the cardboard packaging in an attempt to file a fraudulent postal insurance claim? In a futile attempt to make her see reason, I showed her an uninterrupted and timestamped security camera video of a mail carrier handing me an empty cardboard box and asking me to sign for and acknowledge the damage. Pam wasn’t interested in viewing my video, stated she no longer cared, put her hands in the air, refused to further assist me, and told me to leave.
I asked for her full name. She wrote it down on a piece of paper with intentionally bad penmanship. However, I was able to match her chicken scratch to an employee on Linkedin and negative reviews at this post office on Yelp.
Resubmission Attempt 2: Electric Boogaloo
Steaming, I drove back to the post office I went to back on December 8th. I told the front desk clerk, “I received a damaged international package and I would like to file a Damage Report.”
She unenthusiastically said, “Oh, you need to do that online.”
“No, please, I RECEIVED a damaged international package. Is Brian here? He helped me last time.”
“Oh, one moment.”
She went to the back and reappeared a minute later.
“Brian is on the phone right now, but if you’d like to wait on the side, he can help you when he’s done.”
I stepped to the side in front of a dystopian looking gray door marked “Employee Only” and stood there waiting for half an hour.
Eventually, Abdul came out to greet me. I could tell from the start he was uninterested in helping me. He told me Brian is busy, but he is privy to my situation and asked me how he may help.
I was doubtful he was actually privy to my situation in full detail, so I started describing my predicament from the beginning. Abdul interrupted me to say that Brian remembers me from last month and already did a good job filing the damage report. Abdul wondered why I was back.
At this point I’m struggling to stay assertive and polite so I felt the need to drop some compliments to ensure Abdul does not see me as a rude bitter troublesome customer and tell me to leave like Pam did to me.
I insisted Brian’s integrity is not in question and that I’m thankful for his assistance last month. However, after reviewing the documents I received, I noticed a typo that may be causing an issue that I, the sender, and Swiss Post are experiencing.
He went into the back doing god knows what and came back out after ten minutes.
He verified that he can see the inquiry in the USPS system from the Swiss Post regarding this tracking number. He also claimed that, by looking up my home address, there is already a damage report uploaded mid-December.
Okay, that’s great! Now I know there’s a damage report related to my home address. I told him that everyone I’ve interacted with so far have been helpful and provided information I previously did not know, except for Pam from my local post office who provided me blatantly incorrect information. However, does the Swiss Post know to look for the damage report under my home address? May you please submit a Damage Report under the correct tracking number?
He thanked me for the compliment. Regarding Pam, he suggested I file a complaint with the consumer affairs department. He ripped a corner from my Form 3831 and wrote down a phone number: 1-800-ASK-USPS
I was fuming! I know that phone number is the number I’ve been calling the last few weeks because it’s the general customer support phone number. Is this a way to bounce me to a different USPS department or representative as a way to get me to go away?
By the way, this interaction reminded me of a story I heard where a disgruntled customer confronted a delivery driver of FedEx, a private shipping company, regarding the whereabouts of the customer’s package. However, the driver had no information regarding the customer’s situation and suggested he call Fedex for further assistance. The phone number?
The driver slowly said, “one.” Pause. “Eight hundred.” Pause. “Go.” Pause. “F–”
“You’re tell me to go fuck myself?!” The customer interrupted.
“No no! It’s 1-800-GO-FEDEX! It’s printed on my truck. Look!”
Anyways, back to my situation, in a soft calming voice that was clearly brimming with impatience, I once again clarified my situation.
“I’m looking for a Damage Report to be filed. Based on my countless recent interactions, I now have memorized that this is Form 2856. It should’ve been done last month by your office, but due to a data entry error with the tracking number, it’s possible the completed report was never uploaded to the USPS internal system. Most importantly, the sender told me his country’s postal office in Switzerland was unable to see the report. The Swiss sender is a friend, not some faceless cooperation, which is why I’m exerting so much effort to get this done in accordance with international postal standards. If this was a regular internet purchase, wouldn’t I just pester the seller for a refund and tell him to pound sand if he wanted me to waste time running errands? I’m not filing an insurance claim, nor do I expect any compensation from any insurance payout. The sender will get all that, if any. However, he desperately needs the help of our United States postal service. You already told me you saw the inquiry from the Swiss Post. This Damage Report is exactly what they’re requesting. Therefore, please, would you be so kind as to submit the exact same information under the correct tracking number?”
At this point, Abdul perused my receipt for a Damage Report (the Form 3831) and finally acknowledged the typo. He took my empty cardboard box, Form 3831, and other relevant documents (original and copies) I had on me to the back to fill out a new Damage Report.
After what felt like 15 minutes, he came back out holding only my old Form 3831, Receipt for Article(s) Damaged in Mails. The receipt had been amended with the current date and Abdul’s signature in a different colored pen. He assured this was sufficient as a receipt to prove he filed a Damage Report in the internal USPS system. He stated his office will keep the empty cardboard box in case any postal entity wishes to conduct further investigation, but I was free to come back to retrieve it after the resolution of the Swiss insurance claim. I thanked him for his assistance, wished him a Happy New Year, and left.
The total time wasted at these two post offices? Two hours.
Consumer Affairs Complaint
On January 13th, while it’s not directly related to resolving the insurance claim, I felt it wouldn’t hurt to file an online personnel complaint against Pam. I remember Abdul told me the Consumer Affairs department of the USPS handles these complaints, so I was easily able to find their contact information here: https://postalpro.usps.com/ppro-tools/consumer-affairs
This department is undergoing a name change and should be known as the Consumer & Industry Contact department in the near future.
Someone in Sacramento (state capital of California) called a couple times to acknowledge the complaint and asked me to provide some more additional information, which I did, but I do not care enough to follow up to find out if Pam received a stern talk, training regarding her behavior, or whatever.
Another Follow Up
On the morning of January 20, 2023, @Northern Paladin told me the insurance claim was denied. He shared some email exchanges between him and the Swiss Post as they attempted multiple times to get the CN24 report from USPS. Since no such report materialized, “Poste CH SA décline toute responsabilité.”
Why did USPS not want to submit Form CN24? Why did I keep talking about 2856, 3831, and other mumbo jumbo numbers that did not seem to have anything to do with what he and the Swiss Post requested? Why didn’t I try harder, or at all, to get a CN24 when that was the first thing he asked of me weeks ago?
I imagine he was as furious as I was about this entire situation.
I assured him that everyone I asked did not know what a Form CN24 is. Based on a cursory internet search, Form CN24 is a damage report. When I ask for a “damage report,” USPS representatives know it as PS Form 2856. I strongly suspect, on the international stage, these two forms are exactly the same.
I picked up the phone and dialed USPS. This local post office already fucked up once with a typo. What is their excuse the second time?
I wasn’t sure if it was my imagination or not, but it appeared the phone tree had changed since the last time I called because I had a harder time getting through to a human agent. Eventually, I got in touch with a very friendly sounding USPS representative.
She saw that Swiss Post had emailed my local post office supervisor to send a hard copy of the Damage Report on or around January 13th. This date was a few days after my most recent visit to the post office on January 4th about this situation, so the timeline matches up. However, she did not see a reply back to the Swiss Post, so it's possible my local post office either didn't see the email or was ignoring it.
Is this international interagency insurance claim going to go south because ONE person did not want to respond to his email in a timely manner? Who was this “supervisor at a local post office” anyways? Brian? Abdul? Oh god… Pam?!
Since there are countless post offices within a 50 mile radius, on the off chance the Swiss Post was sending an email to the wrong person, I told the representative Abdul was the one who most recently helped me file a damage report and the physical address of the post office where he worked.
The phone representative also saw internal notes in the system of all my previous calls related to this tracking number. I confirmed that while yes I have called many times, I still felt like I didn’t call frequently enough to have this case resolved in a timely manner. I shared my sense of disquietude that this process was taking an unreasonably long time and that I was concerned the Swiss insurance claim will be denied simply due to an expired statute of limitation. While I currently cannot find the source, I vaguely remember that any damage must be reported within 60 days from the mailing date. Had I called more frequently to confirm things were progressing in a timely manner, this situation could have been resolved much sooner.
She made a note that I started this Damage Report request on December 8, 2022 in case someone at USPS was intentionally stalling to drag out this process. She then told me she would, after this call, unhook herself from the call center queue to send an email to the international department that is handling this case.
Based on her description, I assumed Swiss Post did not get a response from my local post office about a hard copy of the Damage Report, so Swiss Post told @Northern Paladin the insurance claim is denied
EDIT: spelling and grammar
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