When to pay out bounty? (1 Viewer)

[renegadegatorman]

I'll be hosting my first home tournament in January, I've been doing some research on running a tournament to make sure things run smoothly. The tournament will be a bounty tournament but I haven't seen anything about when bounties should be paid out.

Naturally I would think bounties are paid out at the time of the prize pool payouts but that would mean making players who have busted out but have bounties to cash in stay until the end of the tournament.

How is this handled at the tournaments you host or attend?

 

[krafticus]

I pay mine out once the player that has collected bounties is out. No sense in having them wait till the event is over

 

[drdr]

I recall seeing a recent thread that suggested paying the bounty as cash chips. Can then be tabled in any cash game that starts out. Or redeemed when that player leaves. I guess if doing this the bounties should be paid to a player as they bust. Then they can use the chip as they wish immediately.

 

[dkellerd]

One thing to note that we just started doing…if someone rebuys, they keep their bounty. And we pay out whenever the person leaves.

 

[renegadegatorman]

I pay mine out once the player that has collected bounties is out. No sense in having them wait till the event is over

I agree, seems ridiculous to have someone sit and watch other people play just to collect a few bucks.

 

[renegadegatorman]

I recall seeing a recent thread that suggested paying the bounty as cash chips. Can then be tabled in any cash game that starts out. Or redeemed when that player leaves. I guess if doing this the bounties should be paid to a player as they bust. Then they can use the chip as they wish immediately.

Sounds like a good idea, perhaps I will give that a shot.

 

[CraigT78]

I pay the bounties after the tournament is over if the players are staying for the cash game. If the player is leaving, I'll pay it immediately.

 

[Colquhoun]

One thing to note that we just started doing…if someone rebuys, they keep their bounty. And we pay out whenever the person leaves.

So if you knock somebody out, you won’t get a bounty if they rebuy? I don’t like that.
If a rebuy is a full buyin and essentially another life, they should be required to buy another bounty as well.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

So if you knock somebody out, you won’t get a bounty if they rebuy? I don’t like that.
If a rebuy is a full buyin and essentially another life, they should be required to buy another bounty as well.

I put the bounty on the buy-in. You bust and the player who busted you always gets your bounty chip. If you rebuy, you pay for and receive a second bounty chip as well.

 

[BGinGA]

So if you knock somebody out, you won’t get a bounty if they rebuy? I don’t like that.
If a rebuy is a full buyin and essentially another life, they should be required to buy another bounty as well.

Two main ways to do tournament bounty chips:

1) The Bounty is on the player, and forfeited when the player is eliminated from the event.
2) The Bounty is on the player's stack, and forfeited when the player loses their stack.

Either way is fine, imo.

 

[dkellerd]

Yeah…we have a lot of rebuys…and not enough bounty chips. So we put the bounty on the player.

 

[renegadegatorman]

Two main ways to do tournament bounty chips:

1) The Bounty is on the player, and forfeited when the player is eliminated from the event.
2) The Bounty is on the player's stack, and forfeited when the player loses their stack.

Either way is fine, imo.

I definitely like the idea of it being on the stack, just seems to make the most sense to me.

 

[jrs146]

I host a multi-table tournament and always include a bounty. My rules are that the bounty is on the stack so every re-buy must include another bounty. I’ll pay out any bounties when the player is done playing or at the end of the game if they’re still around.

 

[dkellerd]

So should it be mandatory to buy a new bounty with a rebuy?

 

[renegadegatorman]

So should it be mandatory to buy a new bounty with a rebuy?

Thats kind of where I'm torn because I could see it both ways. Either no bounty on a rebuy stack or every stack having a mandatory bounty. I suppose I would just have to ask my friends which they would prefer.

Maybe even have the rebuy cost less than the initial stack but still have the same sized bounty?

 

[CdnBeerLover]

So should it be mandatory to buy a new bounty with a rebuy?

For us it is. Otherwise you have to also keep track of which players have an active bounty in play and which ones do not. That would fall to me as host, and I'm not a fan of adding a potential headache to my responsibilities. My fear is that there would be confusion for a late game all in regarding if there was a bounty in play or not for the player at risk If you always have to purchase a bounty with the rebuy, then there's no confusion. If you are eliminated, you always give up a bounty chip to the person who busted you.

 

[drdr]

So should it be mandatory to buy a new bounty with a rebuy?

Is personal/game preference. Essentially, go with either of BGinGA's two options he posted earlier in the thread. Just make it clear to players which option is used.

 

[BGinGA]

So should it be mandatory to buy a new bounty with a rebuy?

Not necessarily. If applying the bounty win/loss to a player's stack, it's totally up to the organizer if a re-buy stack also requires the purchase of a new bounty chip. Bounty chips can only be won/lost by those players who own a bounty chip.

However, if making bounty chip purchase optional, it's probably best to pay off any collected bounty chips immediately, so that any bounty chips on the table accurately reflects those players at risk for losing one / eligible to collect one.

Some players dislike bounty tournaments in general, for a variety of reasons (play style, added cost, etc.). Limiting the 'forced exposure' of the total bounty cost is a way that organizers can help keep both the pro-bounty and anti-bounty tournament players happy. Player-based bounties and optional-purchase bounties are two specific ways to accomplish this.

I've ran many tournaments with all of the above bounty options, along with many other variations (dual-bounties worth different amounts, progressive bounties, bounty-only tournaments, etc.). They all work fine. Just make the rules clear prior to tournament start.

 

[Rakrul]

I think you guys need to be clearer if you're doing a rebuy tourney or re-entry tourney. It seems weird to do a rebuy bounty tourney, but that's just me. With a re-rentry you do a complete buy in with the bounty cost and get a bounty chip.

 

[Nine_high]

I just did a rebuy bounty tournament. If you were felted, you paid full price for a new stack and bounty. To prevent an all in fest, I also allowed you to surrender your existing stack for a new one, which did not require you to buy another bounty so it was $5 less to do this.

Once you were out of the tournament, you could put your won bounties in play at the cash game, or just redeem them for cash if you didn't want to play. I used my cash $5 for bounties and put the money in the cash box so it was no effort to track them. They were effectively treated as cash game buy in money.

 

[renegadegatorman]

I think you guys need to be clearer if you're doing a rebuy tourney or re-entry tourney. It seems weird to do a rebuy bounty tourney, but that's just me. With a re-rentry you do a complete buy in with the bounty cost and get a bounty chip.

Could you explain the difference between rebuy and re-entry? To me they sound like the same thing.

 

[Rakrul]

With rebuy you must immediately rebuy to stay in the tournament, or you're out (i.e. you can't miss a hand). Rebuy essentially replenish your chipstack so the one who took all your chips doesn't eliminate you if you rebuy (i.e. no bounty for villain).
With re-entry, it means you bust out of the tournament but buy in again. And if you wanted to, you could take a break as long as you re-enter before late reg is over. In theory, you would draw a new table/seat but that might not be needed if you're playing a single table full ring home game.

The main difference apart from technicalities is that usually rebuys are cheaper than buy-ins so you would have to adjust. If you have e.g. $30 buy in and $10 rebuys, it would get expensive if you just changed that to $30 buy-in re-entry tournament as every time you bust, you pay $30. However it would mean that villain gets a bounty every time they bust you out (and vice versa).

 

[Poker Zombie]

Back to the OP...

I prefer to pay the bounty with cashouts, but if players wish to leave, I'll pay them at break. asking for your bounty payment while the host/banker is still playing is just rude.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

The Bounty is paid on a busted player. Either immediately or at the end of the game. However, if a rebuy is purchased, so is the Bounty. You can't get busted twice with one Bounty. Ever.

 

[renegadegatorman]

The main difference apart from technicalities is that usually rebuys are cheaper than buy-ins so you would have to adjust. If you have e.g. $30 buy in and $10 rebuys, it would get expensive if you just changed that to $30 buy-in re-entry tournament as every time you bust, you pay $30.

May sound ridiculous but I think I will try a hybrid of the two to cater to my group. I'll probably do a rebuy that is cheaper than initial entry but allows to sit out an orbit.

My group isn't very aggressive so they may need some incentives to buy back in such as lower price and time to think about it. Part of that rebuy will definitely be set aside as a bounty.

 

[BGinGA]

The Bounty is paid on a busted player. Either immediately or at the end of the game. However, if a rebuy is purchased, so is the Bounty. You can't get busted twice with one Bounty. Ever.

Well...... yes, you can.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Well...... yes, you can.

Not in my games. Especially not in a situation where a rebuy could potentially put a rebuying player ahead of some shorter stacks.

 

[ValueTown]

I'll be hosting my first home tournament in January, I've been doing some research on running a tournament to make sure things run smoothly. The tournament will be a bounty tournament but I haven't seen anything about when bounties should be paid out.

Naturally I would think bounties are paid out at the time of the prize pool payouts but that would mean making players who have busted out but have bounties to cash in stay until the end of the tournament.

How is this handled at the tournaments you host or attend?

Lose all chips, lose your bounty. Re buy...get another bounty (granted it's paid as re buy).

 

[MrCatPants]

If a player has the option to rebuy and bounties are only for elimination of a player, it means it is unclear if an all in includes a bounty on the line or not. That can definitely matter in determining an action. Most things in poker rules-wise drive towards clarity, so it would seem the only reasonable option is that a bounty is purchased with each rebuy/reentry/reregistration.

 

[Poker Zombie]

That can definitely matter in determining an action.

I will concede the point if the value of the bounty is so great compared to the ICM of the stacks, that it would alter the EV of the call.

In most situations, it will not. In fact, I am having a ridiculously hard time trying to even dream up a real-life situation where it would ever matter. Most home game bounties are a fraction of the prize pool. 10% seems pretty common for all bounties, so if you had a 10 player game, each bounty is 10% of that 10%, or 1% of the prize pool. Get 20 player games like I run closer to, and a single bounty is 0.5% of the prize pool. Now run a 30-40 player game of @BGinGA standards, and you are at one quarter of one percent.

On what range are you basing a call vs fold decision on less than a 1% change in the expected value?

If my math is wrong, please correct me. I'm not being confrontational, I'm just seriously lost.