What makes a poker chip worth $70? and other n00b questions… (1 Viewer)

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OK, gonna throw something new in here. More of a peeve than a question.

Abbreviations! There, I said it! For us n00bs, there are WAY too many abbreviations and acronyms used in this forum. It's very hard for us to understand what chips are being discussed sometimes. I once saw a post that defined SOME of them, but no where near all of them.

Here's the title of a post that was just placed:
Wanted BW 25c, $1, $20. And no additional details within the post either. Now yeah, it's a wanted post. And if I had what he wanted, I assume I would know what that meant. But I read lots of the wanted posts to learn about all the different chips, and to see what it is people want. Maybe I might want some of those too! If I had any idea what those were. And honestly, it would be even nicer if more of the wanted posts had pictures of what they were looking for. But these shorthand references are also being used in the general topic posts. With time and effort I am starting to figure out what some of them mean. But it's still frustrating.

Rant over. :D
The search function works quite well with abbreviations. And by doing the search and reading some of the posts, you'll learn more about chips and probably retain the information better. You asked earlier how you could know what things are worth. The answer is read and learn.
 

WedgeRock

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Abbreviations! There, I said it! For us n00bs, there are WAY too many abbreviations and acronyms used in this forum. It's very hard for us to understand what chips are being discussed sometimes. I once saw a post that defined SOME of them, but no where near all of them.

Here's the title of a post that was just placed:
Wanted BW 25c, $1, $20. And no additional details within the post either.

BW = Board+(opposite of run)... there was an issue (from what I pieced together) that they looked too much like the Borgata chips. There might have been a cease and desist order and so you often don't see pics of the chips or even their name.
 
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markleteenie

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OK, gonna throw something new in here. More of a peeve than a question.

Abbreviations! There, I said it! For us n00bs, there are WAY too many abbreviations and acronyms used in this forum. It's very hard for us to understand what chips are being discussed sometimes. I once saw a post that defined SOME of them, but no where near all of them.

Here's the title of a post that was just placed:
Wanted BW 25c, $1, $20. And no additional details within the post either. Now yeah, it's a wanted post. And if I had what he wanted, I assume I would know what that meant. But I read lots of the wanted posts to learn about all the different chips, and to see what it is people want. Maybe I might want some of those too! If I had any idea what those were. And honestly, it would be even nicer if more of the wanted posts had pictures of what they were looking for. But these shorthand references are also being used in the general topic posts. With time and effort I am starting to figure out what some of them mean. But it's still frustrating.

Rant over. :D

People who post short hand messages with no pics only hinder their own search. Generally, if you have it, you will know what it means. But there are the rare instances where a newer or returning member has a collection of chips and doesn't know the chipping lingo. If they don't know this abbreviation and have that chip, the poster is missing an opportunity for communication.

Some people type fast because they are on their phone and don't want to type a lot. Attaching pictures while on the phone is also more difficult than the computer.

But certainly there has been debate about the use of similar acronyms where people are slightly confused, for instance HS. Hotstamp? Horseshoe? I think it means Hotstamp.

Personally, when I'm looking for something, I want to make it as clear as possible, so I usually attach a picture.

Like all good cults communities, using shorthand is so much more specific and descriptive, especially when these nuances are important to those involved.
Here are extreme examples, but...
  • Instead of THC, would you rather people always write out Paul-son manufactured 39mm diameter round compressed clay chip with the Top Hat and Cane mold with a rim around the edge and a typical inlay size of 7/8?
  • Instead of IHC, maybe Paul-son manufactured 43mm diameter round compressed clay chip with the inverted logo of their signature Hat and Cane mold stamped into their rim?
Definitely more detailed, but no one is going to bother with that verbosity. Once someone understands that IHC is the "Inverted" Hat and Cane mold and is oversize......if it's important to them, they will remember it.

BW = Board+(opposite of run)... there was an issue (from what I pieced together)
These BW are a specific situation that I would call an outlier. Another example, the original Sunset Beach listings were all redacted by the original poster so systematically that there are probably no pictures or prices from the original "sale" period. But that is, again, an outlier situation.
 

HeWhoWouldPun

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I'm pretty new here, but I wasn't really meaning auction so that you could squeeze out maximum dollar. But when something really desirable and hard to come by like this is made available, the lucky sucker (no offense AK Chip :D ) who happens to see it first, gets it. Within 3 minutes, in this case Mr Speedy! An auction determines the true value of the item, and there shouldn't be anything shady or greedy about selling something for it's true value, should there?

Like I say, I'm new, so maybe I just haven't developed the relationships yet that some of you guys have. And I probably open my mouth and speak out of turn more often than a new guy should. Not trying to make waves, I promise. It's a great set of chips! Sorry you had to sell them and I'm sure the new owner will enjoy them immensely.

The question about auction format vs "dibs" vs "market value"/"true value" vs selling at individual's purchase price usually brings out a lot of strong opinions. For me, it evokes a bigger question--how do you view PCF? Do you see PCF as a marketplace or a community? Both?

I think how someone views PCF will shape that person's answers/feelings about auctions vs dibs. If you see PCF as a marketplace, auctions are great because it will establish "market value" and the seller can potentially maximize profit while still getting chips into the hands of the buyer (if the buyer is willing to pay that price then it is a fair price). If you view it as a community, auctions can be viewed as the example of "flipping" behavior and the auction can be seen as purely profit-seeking (if a person paid $2/chip and is selling it for $2/chip than it is a fair price). Marketplace and community at the same time: somebody found a set of old Paulson's at an estate sale, paid 25 cents/chip and is now selling for 75 cents/chip even when "market value" is $1 or $2/chip makes that price a "fair price"?

I'm pretty sure there are other threads out there discussing aspects of this topic (what is "flipping" vs "market value") as it brings out a lot of strong opinions. I'll merely leave the above thoughts and hopefully it won't start the process of beating the dead horse in this thread.
 

TheWhat

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Dibs was the most confusing thing ever, when I first signed up here. Actually could not, and still kinda don't believe it was / is a thing. Makes a little more sense now, only because the Community vibe you mention does become apparent.

Timing (And knowledge) here though is everything, and it does sting a little when you miss out.
 

TX_Golf_N_Poker

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People who post short hand messages with no pics only hinder their own search. Generally, if you have it, you will know what it means. But there are the rare instances where a newer or returning member has a collection of chips and doesn't know the chipping lingo. If they don't know this abbreviation and have that chip, the poster is missing an opportunity for communication.

Some people type fast because they are on their phone and don't want to type a lot. Attaching pictures while on the phone is also more difficult than the computer.

But certainly there has been debate about the use of similar acronyms where people are slightly confused, for instance HS. Hotstamp? Horseshoe? I think it means Hotstamp.

Personally, when I'm looking for something, I want to make it as clear as possible, so I usually attach a picture.

Like all good cults communities, using shorthand is so much more specific and descriptive, especially when these nuances are important to those involved.
Here are extreme examples, but...
  • Instead of THC, would you rather people always write out Paul-son manufactured 39mm diameter round compressed clay chip with the Top Hat and Cane mold with a rim around the edge and a typical inlay size of 7/8?
  • Instead of IHC, maybe Paul-son manufactured 43mm diameter round compressed clay chip with the inverted logo of their signature Hat and Cane mold stamped into their rim?
Definitely more detailed, but no one is going to bother with that verbosity. Once someone understands that IHC is the "Inverted" Hat and Cane mold and is oversize......if it's important to them, they will remember it.


These BW are a specific situation that I would call an outlier. Another example, the original Sunset Beach listings were all redacted by the original poster so systematically that there are probably no pictures or prices from the original "sale" period. But that is, again, an outlier situation.
Thanks. Lots of good points. Yeah, if you're here a week and don't know what THC is, then you might as well leave. :D Those that are used often, absolutely keep using the acronym. We do eventually learn the common ones. I suppose it's hard for an experienced chipper to know which abbreviations a n00b will or won't know. I really wasn't requesting a complete over haul. More just pointing out that if your ad is too obscure, you may be losing out on some of your potential audience.
 

TX_Golf_N_Poker

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The question about auction format vs "dibs" vs "market value"/"true value" vs selling at individual's purchase price usually brings out a lot of strong opinions. For me, it evokes a bigger question--how do you view PCF? Do you see PCF as a marketplace or a community? Both?

I think how someone views PCF will shape that person's answers/feelings about auctions vs dibs. If you see PCF as a marketplace, auctions are great because it will establish "market value" and the seller can potentially maximize profit while still getting chips into the hands of the buyer (if the buyer is willing to pay that price then it is a fair price). If you view it as a community, auctions can be viewed as the example of "flipping" behavior and the auction can be seen as purely profit-seeking (if a person paid $2/chip and is selling it for $2/chip than it is a fair price). Marketplace and community at the same time: somebody found a set of old Paulson's at an estate sale, paid 25 cents/chip and is now selling for 75 cents/chip even when "market value" is $1 or $2/chip makes that price a "fair price"?

I'm pretty sure there are other threads out there discussing aspects of this topic (what is "flipping" vs "market value") as it brings out a lot of strong opinions. I'll merely leave the above thoughts and hopefully it won't start the process of beating the dead horse in this thread.
Thanks! Like I said, if I have a thought, I tend to put it in writing and try to learn how things work around here. I'm not afraid to speak up, and also not afraid to apologize if toes are accidentally stepped on. Just how I am. I'm new, but right away I picked up that others here also speak out. Maybe they've earned that right and I haven't yet. But I'm also very open minded, so I may have a certain opinion, and then after hearing more facts, I'll change that opinion. I have learned that this is a GREAT community, so I certainly don't want to change anything about that!

I may not have explained this as well in the other thread, but my biggest issue is not so much ensuring the item sells for fair value as it is not everyone getting a fair shot at buying it. Congrats to the guy who's online the very moment when a cool set is posted. But I also liked @BGinGA 's idea about taking the names of all who are interested, then having a drawing. Or even go ahead with the auction, and state up front that any amount exceeding X dollars (what the seller wants to get) will be donated to a worthy charity? Or here's a wild idea. Are lottery's allowed? Probably not. But wouldn't it be cool to sell 20 tickets for $50 each and then pick one person who wins the item? Seller gets his money and buyer get a steal of a deal! Or 20 tickets for $20, then winner gets to buy it for $600.

Weird ideas maybe, but it's just something that I like to do. Brainstorm different ways of doing things.
 

Josh Kifer

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Thanks! Like I said, if I have a thought, I tend to put it in writing and try to learn how things work around here. I'm not afraid to speak up, and also not afraid to apologize if toes are accidentally stepped on. Just how I am. I'm new, but right away I picked up that others here also speak out. Maybe they've earned that right and I haven't yet. But I'm also very open minded, so I may have a certain opinion, and then after hearing more facts, I'll change that opinion. I have learned that this is a GREAT community, so I certainly don't want to change anything about that!

I may not have explained this as well in the other thread, but my biggest issue is not so much ensuring the item sells for fair value as it is not everyone getting a fair shot at buying it. Congrats to the guy who's online the very moment when a cool set is posted. But I also liked @BGinGA 's idea about taking the names of all who are interested, then having a drawing. Or even go ahead with the auction, and state up front that any amount exceeding X dollars (what the seller wants to get) will be donated to a worthy charity? Or here's a wild idea. Are lottery's allowed? Probably not. But wouldn't it be cool to sell 20 tickets for $50 each and then pick one person who wins the item? Seller gets his money and buyer get a steal of a deal! Or 20 tickets for $20, then winner gets to buy it for $600.

Weird ideas maybe, but it's just something that I like to do. Brainstorm different ways of doing things.
We did lotterys. It didn't go well.
 

Josh Kifer

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Yeah, I suppose people will claim they're fixed... Just goes to show there is no possible way to do anything that pleases everyone. :banghead:
Honestly, if your here for profit - become a vendor and make profit - run auctions or maximize profit from sale price - help fund the site. If your here for community, give with posts and information... Sell for what ya bought for or a reasonable markup (that's the hard part) .

Adding dibs raffles for random fair selling just adds more work to a seller just wanting to sell. I've found posting WTB ads and creating relationships gets you alot more then being upset someone dibs faster then you. Most miss outs are because people don't know they are looking, rather then skipping a sure PM buy to get more cash. Now when I know someone wants something, I'll PM them first. Make it simple.
 

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We did lotterys. It didn't go well.
I think it went really well. They were wildly popular. My understanding was the raffles were shut down because they were kind of illegal. Was there more to the story, that I missed?
As far as sales go - I think its great when somebody does something interesting to make sure everybody gets a fair shot at something. But personally, when I'm selling, I don't care for the extra work, and I'm not concerned about "fair." Why should somebody who logs in once a week get an equal shot at a sale as somebody who's here every hour?
 

Josh Kifer

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I think it went really well. They were wildly popular. My understanding was the raffles were shut down because they were kind of illegal. Was there more to the story, that I missed?
I don't remember all the drama. But I remember a few with people refusing to pay after they lost, and then some general chaos over sellers max valuing sets due to low ticket cost/billions of tickets that got a uproar.

And yeah, new laws came in and made it a bad idea. All the raffle sites I knew shut down within a week...
 

upNdown

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nd then some general chaos over sellers max valuing sets due to low ticket cost/billions of tickets that got a uproar.
I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE ON THIS SITE FOUND SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN AND ARGUE ABOUT!
(And that's people in general, of course. People here are no different than people anywhere on the internet.)
 

Josh Kifer

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I think lotteries went very well... But they are in murky water from a legal perspective and therefore banned, to protect everyone.
I just remember some drama, like I said. And then I said that too..... In a later post.

I'm Watching silence of the lambs and five beers in, maybe I'm just only remembering the bad times, and not the good.
 

allforcharity

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Or even go ahead with the auction, and state up front that any amount exceeding X dollars (what the seller wants to get) will be donated to a worthy charity?

I've done this before, with varying amounts of success. I may do this again when it comes time to sell/auction my Jacks. Still contemplating. Definitely nothing will happen until the US border opens and my package receiving service resumes business. I expect an extension of restrictions until at least late July, because of increasing outbreaks on the US side.
 

trigs

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Definitely nothing will happen until the US border opens and my package receiving service resumes business. I expect an extension of restrictions until at least late July, because of increasing outbreaks on the US side.

Yeah guys, have some consideration and get your shit together so Canadians can start buying chips again. :LOL: :laugh:
 

BGinGA

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Was there more to the story, that I missed?
I just remember some drama
Yeah, there were many who got upset at some of the pretty blatant money-grab raffles -- people who sold 100 x $10 tickets for an item valued at only $600 (just a fictitious example of what was generally perceived as pure greed and anti-community behavior).

Downside of banning them is that we lost the really cool charity raffles, too -- you could spend a bunch of money for a good cause and maybe get some neat stuff.

I still maintain that a dibs-lottery is the fairest way to sell something here without maximizing profits while still meeting the expectations of both the seller and buyers. People shouldn't have to be logged on while in the shower just in case they miss a sale listing for five minutes featuring something they've been searching years for. And the extra time is minimal, and well-worth the overall benefit to the community. Of course, if you don't care about the community, that's a different issue altogether....
 

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You already know you're in the right place to get answers.
The thread title question is easy. The chip is worth $70 only if someone actually pays $70.

edit: I have a realted question on a recent classified. Why are those Big Top chips priced at $10 each? I been doing this a while, but I don't get that

Fairly easy answer there from my perspective:
1. Mint 43mm IHC Paulsons

2. Supply < Demand

3. Original purchase prices
Unless seller was a NAGB member, most BTP sets were purchased already for (at minimum) $8/chip and upwards, either in auction, FS thread or privately.

4. Recent sales, which are easy enough to find using the search function ($7-9 per for the T25/T100s and upwards of $15 per for the higher denoms)
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/big-top-poker-split-pricing-added.57786/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/mint-btp-tournament-set-barrels-cyber-tuesday-sale.50041/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/big-top-poker-t5000-barrel-btp-5k.50882/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/btp-tourney-100s.48662/
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/selling-remaining-btp-tourneys.51310/
and so on...

That said, past sales don't necessarily predict future prices (in either direction). I personally try to find a middle ground between what I paid and current market prices (if there's a big gap since I've purchased). Otherwise I try and re-sell for what I paid. The reality, especially as an international chipper, is that most sales I've made have resulted in a net negative for me. Do I care? No. For me it's part of the cost of being able to collect chips oversees, see which sets I like/want to keep, or just to be able to fondle a particular set before forwarding to the next happy chipper. Others may have somewhat different opinions in that regard. To each their own.


As for individual chips, as others have mentioned, it's also a combination of various factors, including rarity and popularity at any given time. While my preference is for playable sets and I thus wouldn't spend large amounts on singles, there are exceptions like the Binion's Paulson WSOP sample set.
 

Geremie

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I’ll begrudgingly pay $70 for any of these

1609082897225.jpeg
 
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