Cash Game Recruiting higher stakes players (1 Viewer)

[Lemonzest]

That’s the point...you need to recruit new players constantly. That’s easier said then done.

My Limit game only had 15-18 players in the loop to fill 10 seats. We almost always filled 10 seats and sometime had two tables going...for FOUR years! The core group was about 7-8 guys who always showed up. The balance was really only used to fill 2-3 seats. Of that core group 5 were consistent losers but they usually played all night on a buy-in...maybe 1 1/2 buy-ins on a really bad night.

Back then we cashed in for $60 for $2/4, $100 for $3/6Limit and only $100-$150 for $1/2NL. Some of those guys went through 3 buy ins a night in NL. All the sudden, after four years, they were too busy to make the games. We couldn’t even get 6 people of our 18 or so to play even once a month.

The initial attraction to NL from the losing group was that their loose play would be occasionally rewarded in NL when they got lucky and flopped two pair with J4 against kings, etc. Loose play in Limit will bleed you out with a smaller chance of winning enough pots to pay for your bad play.

I am younger so I don't really grasp Limit. When I say I don't "grasp" it I mean I think it sucks. I played Limit for a bit at the casino years ago waiting for a spot to open in NL and it was the worst.

I agree about your points about keeping a game running though. It is hard when people play 1/2 and lose 2-3 buy ins per night. My crew just plays $20 NL. so even if you lose 3 buyins you are still only stuck $60. It is essentially my group of friends and I would feel bad if anyone stopped coming just because of the money. It is supposed to be fun not a secondary source of income for the good players...

 

[upNdown]

PS: I started playing $.25/50 just to keep a regular game with other players because I really prefer to not to play single table tourneys. I feel it’s hurting my skills but it is what I can get on regular basis.

I’ve played .25/.50 games where I was the best player at the table and I’ve played in .25/.50 games where I had to look around to see if I was the fish.
You can make the generalization that better players seek out higher stakes, but home games can be the exception. It’s possible to play good poker at those stakes.

 

[Old State]

I’ve played .25/.50 games where I was the best player at the table and I’ve played in .25/.50 games where I had to look around to see if I was the fish.
You can make the generalization that better players seek out higher stakes, but home games can be the exception. It’s possible to play good poker at those stakes.

I absolutely didn’t mean that. I play those stakes because that is what fill the seats. The guys that play in that game with me are not that skilled. They are getting better though. We play those stakes because most are not used to playing cash Poker and that is what they are comfortable with.

That said I really don’t think you are playing real poker until there is a fear of loss.

 

[Old State]

I am younger so I don't really grasp Limit. When I say I don't "grasp" it I mean I think it sucks. I played Limit for a bit at the casino years ago waiting for a spot to open in NL and it was the worst.

I agree about your points about keeping a game running though. It is hard when people play 1/2 and lose 2-3 buy ins per night. My crew just plays $20 NL. so even if you lose 3 buyins you are still only stuck $60. It is essentially my group of friends and I would feel bad if anyone stopped coming just because of the money. It is supposed to be fun not a secondary source of income for the good players...

It’s a different game but isn’t worse or better. You need to play differently. I wouldn’t make a judgement based on playing it once for a “bit”

NL betting in Poker was first than disappeared for well over 100 years. Limit holdem was the ONLY type of holdem spread in casinos until around 2004. Most high limit pros still play it. The famous Table 1 at the Bellagio used to be something like $1000/2000 limit for years and may still be.

$2/4 limit at a casino is very tough because it’s loose and the rake kills you. In my experience games play higher for the same stakes at home than a casino. People tend to lose their value of money inside a casino.


The highest limit cash game ever played was limit poker.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Professor,_the_Banker,_and_the_Suicide_King

 

[Rhodeman77]

Only have 6 players for tonight with a couple of maybes. So I decided to use the smaller table being short handed. Also when I was testing the Soapy’s Parlor chips that we will be using tonight the $5 blended in with the blue felt of the big table too much for my liking.

$300 starting stacks ready to go with rebuy chips in the drink/lock box cart I whipped together the other night.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Had a last minutes 4 handed PLO game last night. Started at 11pm, ended at 3:30.

Always good to make $100/hr. at the poker table.

 

[Rhodeman77]

About 6 weeks ago the host of the weekly Thursday night cash game I have been playing in for the last 6+ months quite hosting. A couple of the biggest fish had gone bust and the host was going down the same hole fast.

So I took over hosting with the players left and infusing some of my regulars that have the money to play a deeper stakes game.

The game has been going well for the last 6 weeks but I have been hearing that the host of the former game is now playing in another game on Tuesday night and is recruiting some of the players that were left to the new game.

This morning one of the regulars (a losing player) that was supposed to play tomorrow canceled on me because he is going to be playing in the other game now.

So 5 people that were every week players at the Thursday game (including the host) are now playing at this game on Tuesday’s and I’m not invited.

I’m down to 6 people for this weeks game, which I’m fine with, I prefer a short handed game anyways, but I don’t think many of the other players Ike it as much.

I’m pretty sure I’m being excluded because I am the biggest winner in the game by a huge margin.

TL-DR— I’m being excluded from the game “new” game with the same people I’ve been playing with because I win too much.

 

[BGinGA]

I think there's a "shear many, kill once" message in there somewhere.

 

[Kain8]

I think there's a "shear many, kill once" message in there somewhere.

To be fair @Rhodeman77 posted a strategy hand thread that detailed this philosophy. It's just unfortunate that even with his considerate thoughts for the health of the game as a whole, he gets the shaft anyway. Fish travel in schools for a reason.

I'm sure he made enough from those bad Omaha players to afford a new CPC set with a fish / shark / whale aquatic theme now! Or just double down and make a limit set add-on with the Treehouse chips!

 

[Lemonzest]

I always advocate playing smaller stakes. Anyone can play 1/2 or 2/5 for a couple nights or maybe even weeks but if you are a losing player it is unsustainable.

My crew played 10 NL for years and only in the last couple years bumped the game up to 20 NL. It is very hard to keep a 1/2 or 2/5 home game running without constant new blood at the tables.

It all depends what your goals are. I would never want people to skip my game because of the money. It is hard enough to fill the table given I live in a rural area. I am hoping to foster a fun environment where people can keep coming back and even on a bad night only be in the hole 60-80.

Being down 80 bucks isn't so bad if you had 5-6 hours of fun and a bunch of laughs with friends.

EDIT: Rhodeman, not meaning to lecture you here...this is just my 2c. If you can keep filling your table and make money at higher stakes more power to you.

 

[Old State]

What I have been trying to do is host or get involved in various games at different stakes. The people from one game rarely play in the others .... with a few exceptions. Ideally I get to play more often but they get a break.

My problem is I have to get better at adjusting my game to the various skill levels which are very different from each game I’m in.

 

[Rhodeman77]

@Lemonzest what sucks they are still playing the same stakes, they just aren’t inviting me and the other winning player that I brought into the game.

I have a better run game, the other game charges $1 for a misdeal or acting out of turn to help fund the Bad Beat. The host charges $20 seat fee to play and the food is paid for out of the Bad Beat anyways so the host is making $160/week for hosting.

The big difference is all of the players at that game are about the same (bad) skill level so they usually are just trading money from week to week. On the other hand I have been winning on avaerage about $700/week since the beginning of the year from these games.

I do give them credit, table selection is one of the biggest factors in winning at poker.

They realize their chances are better to win with me not at the table.

 

[BGinGA]

In actuality, it's probably closer to 'their chances of not losing big' are better without you present.

It's not always about winning -- sometimes, it's more about being able to play without worrying about an almost guaranteed loss. They don't mind breaking even, or taking a small loss.

 

[Rhodeman77]

What I have been trying to do is host or get involved in various games at different stakes. The people from one game rarely play in the others .... with a few exceptions. Ideally I get to play more often but they get a break.

My problem is I have to get better at adjusting my game to the various skill levels which are very different from each game I’m in.

I have done that. I have hosted anywhere from 25/50c to the $1/2($5) games.

This isn’t the first time this has happened to me. Just. A few weeks ago I was on my way to a 25/50c $100 max cash game that started after a tournament when got a text from a friend in the game. When I texted the host if she needed anything she told me there wasn’t a cash game going. Then called me shortly after that to say there was a “very small” game going, but it was smaller than I’m used to with one guy buying in for only $10 even. I could tell she didn’t want me to play so I went to the casino instead.

Another tournament host that has 50c/$1 $100 max cash games afterwards just stopped texting me altogether when they start.

I guess I’ll start playing at the casino on a weekly basis to find some decent people to start inviting over.

 

[detroitdad]

I have done that. I have hosted anywhere from 25/50c to the $1/2($5) games.

This isn’t the first time this has happened to me. Just. A few weeks ago I was on my way to a 25/50c $100 max cash game that started after a tournament when got a text from a friend in the game. When I texted the host if she needed anything she told me there wasn’t a cash game going. Then called me shortly after that to say there was a “very small” game going, but it was smaller than I’m used to with one guy buying in for only $10 even. I could tell she didn’t want me to play so I went to the casino instead.

Another tournament host that has 50c/$1 $100 max cash games afterwards just stopped texting me altogether when they start.

I guess I’ll start playing at the casino on a weekly basis to find some decent people to start inviting over.

I'm having a game FRI. Need players lol. Short drive for you.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I'm having a game FRI. Need players lol. Short drive for you.

I wish your game really was a short drive!

 

[detroitdad]

I wish your game really was a short drive!

Its only a 5 hour round trip drive

 

[Lemonzest]

@Rhodeman77 mo money mo problems

 

[v1pe]

I have done that. I have hosted anywhere from 25/50c to the $1/2($5) games.

This isn’t the first time this has happened to me. Just. A few weeks ago I was on my way to a 25/50c $100 max cash game that started after a tournament when got a text from a friend in the game. When I texted the host if she needed anything she told me there wasn’t a cash game going. Then called me shortly after that to say there was a “very small” game going, but it was smaller than I’m used to with one guy buying in for only $10 even. I could tell she didn’t want me to play so I went to the casino instead.

Another tournament host that has 50c/$1 $100 max cash games afterwards just stopped texting me altogether when they start.

I guess I’ll start playing at the casino on a weekly basis to find some decent people to start inviting over.

Are you playing in the tournament prior to these cash games?

 

[Rhodeman77]

Are you playing in the tournament prior to these cash games?

I can’t at this time. They start too early for me to make it. I have 4 small kids so I need to help get them to bed before I can leave the house.

There are other people that show up for just the cash games. I’m not concerned about those games though, $100 is a big night at them. I like to just play in them on occasion because I know the players. I like the social part of those games.

The weekly cash game is what sucks. Short of losing I’m not sure what I can do to convince them to continue to come to my game.

 

[v1pe]

I can’t at this time. They start too early for me to make it. I have 4 small kids so I need to help get them to bed before I can leave the house.

There are other people that show up for just the cash games. I’m not concerned about those games though, $100 is a big night at them. I like to just play in them on occasion because I know the players. I like the social part of those games.

The weekly cash game is what sucks. Short of losing I’m not sure what I can do to convince them to continue to come to my game.

Yeah I can sympathize, I also have 4 young kids at home. That's the primary reason I host. Wife is gracious enough to let me get away once a month for a tourney/cash game just a few minutes from home.

Anyway, just wondered if also playing in the tourney would help you to get invited more or at least you would be welcomed more. I know you're used to 2/5 but if it's 25c/50c or nothing I'd choose the lower stakes!

 

[Rhodeman77]

Using the Cleveland Horseshoes I just bought. Started out 6. Down to 4 now, playing only PLO.

In for $300.

 

[Lemonzest]

Using the Cleveland Horseshoes I just bought. Started out 6. Down to 4 now, playing only PLO.

In for $300.

View attachment 173209

i wouldnt play with you either

 

[CraigT78]

@Rhodeman77 - do you give action back? Or is it your weekly goal to crush the fish? Curious if you dialed it back slightly if you have better retention? I’m not suggesting throwing the game by any means, but if you’re super tight maybe loosen up and donk some back here and there? On the other hand, if the fish are just that bad - when’s the next game? :

 

[Rhodeman77]

@Rhodeman77 - do you give action back? Or is it your weekly goal to crush the fish? Curious if you dialed it back slightly if you have better retention? I’m not suggesting throwing the game by any means, but if you’re super tight maybe loosen up and donk some back here and there? On the other hand, if the fish are just that bad - when’s the next game? :

I am super loose! I straddle every time I’m UTG. My VPIP is over 80% right now. My hand reading is leagues above theirs.

They pay off my big hands a lot and then let me bluff them a lot too.

Flopped nut boat with AKJ9 on a KKJ board. Bet all the way and and was even raised on the river by the guy with 10 10 that river 10’s full.

Current Stack.

 

[v1pe]

I am super loose! I straddle every time I’m UTG. My VPIP is over 80% right now. My hand reading is leagues above theirs.

They pay off my big hands a lot and then let me bluff them a lot too.

Flopped nut boat with AKJ9 on a KKJ board. Bet all the way and and was even raised on the river by the guy with 10 10 that river 10’s full.

Current Stack.

View attachment 173214

Jeeezus.

 

[v1pe]

Have you tried to introduce split pot games? Perhaps PLO8 would help keep folks around, lower the variance.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Have you tried to introduce split pot games? Perhaps PLO8 would help keep folks around, lower the variance.

Have you played PLO8? They will go broke even faster!

I can see it now, they bet pot with the nut now and no high hand and get 1/4 of the pot or worse when the get counterfeited.

What I would like to do have have some mixed Limit games to slow down the bleeding. But they all think Limit sucks because “you can’t protect your hand”.

 

[BGinGA]

lol, they need to be worrying more about protecting their wallet.... :

Limit games would help a lot, I think... but it can be a hard transition mentally. Maybe spread-limit would work?

 

[DonkeyKing]

Have you considered rotating hosts within your regulars? I don't run a home game but just want to share how we keep our players.....
I've been playing with the same group of people on Saturdays (as our 19th Hole and even during winter when there's no golf) for almost 10 yrs and only seen some players skip a game or two, just because of bad streaks or previous engagements. Some players schedule it after birthday parties (when kids are gone) so the rake goes to the birthday celebrant and feels more like a family and friends gathering (not to mention food is already accounted for). Of course, this only works on weekend games and not all players volunteers to be the host (like me, I dont want to clean up when I'm beat) (n) :thumbsdownn) :thumbsdown:...