Cash Game Recruiting higher stakes players (1 Viewer)

Rhodeman77

Rhodeman77

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For the past month I have been playing in what is pretty much a $2/5 game. While the action and the amount of money on the table are great, pretty much everything else about the game sucks.

$2/5 at the local casino is the highest stakes normally going with the PLO game being where the real action and big money play.

But for anyone wanting to play $2/5 Hold’em it is filled with casino regs just waiting for a fish or two to show up. It’s a tough game.

Pretty much anyone wanting to play above $1/2 in a softer game it’s a private game only.

So my friend and I want to start up our own $2/5 game.

An invite only higher stakes game. It will be catered food, top shelf drinks, attractive woman serving said food and drinks, pro dealer.

Our target players are people making $150k+ per year that don’t really want to play at the casino. Small business owners, lawyers, corporate sales types, people that are competitive but not really hard core poker players.

So my question is how do I find them???
We have a few of these type within our large network of players, but I think I need a few “fish” to get them to show up on a regular basis.

I don’t want to poach players from the game we just started playing in for a few reasons. We don’t want to burn that bridge and I don’t want them to try to bring their stupid rules and poorly run game style to my game.

So any ideas on recruiting some higher stakes players that aren’t sharks?
 
Invite them from the casino...... Pretty much the only way to find other players that want to play higher stakes. That's why they are at the casino
 
Rhodeman77 said:
For the past month I have been playing in what is pretty much a $2/5 game. While the action and the amount of money on the table are great, pretty much everything else about the game sucks.

$2/5 at the local casino is the highest stakes normally going with the PLO game being where the real action and big money play.

But for anyone wanting to play $2/5 Hold’em it is filled with casino regs just waiting for a fish or two to show up. It’s a tough game.

Pretty much anyone wanting to play above $1/2 in a softer game it’s a private game only.

So my friend and I want to start up our own $2/5 game.

An invite only higher stakes game. It will be catered food, top shelf drinks, attractive woman serving said food and drinks, pro dealer.

Our target players are people making $150k+ per year that don’t really want to play at the casino. Small business owners, lawyers, corporate sales types, people that are competitive but not really hard core poker players.

So my question is how do I find them???
We have a few of these type within our large network of players, but I think I need a few “fish” to get them to show up on a regular basis.

I don’t want to poach players from the game we just started playing in for a few reasons. We don’t want to burn that bridge and I don’t want them to try to bring their stupid rules and poorly run game style to my game.

So any ideas on recruiting some higher stakes players that aren’t sharks?
Click to expand...


If you figure out the answer hats off to you, but this is a super tall order. Think about the criteria need huge incomes, must love to play, not mind losing over the long run.

I think the trick is finding people that will play smaller stakes often and then once in a while get a "special" higher stakes game going. Then your short term winners from the smaller stakes can help fill some seats in the higher game even if they usually would not play that high.
 
The game I’m playing in every Thursday now has a people begging to get into it though!!!

So there are plenty of people that want to play $2/5, but don’t want to do it at the casino.
 
Quicksilver-75 said:
If you are going to have large amounts of money in play take care. Mum is the word and armed security is a must. Maybe even find a neutral site to run these games if you aren't already.
Click to expand...

That is definitely a concern. We may rotate the location of the game. Also thinking of using cash for just the initial buy in then have players transfer money to me by PayPal or Google Wallet for rebuys. Then transfer the money to the winners at the end of the night.

I know a lot of the higher stakes games have the players use markers then the host/organizer collects the money before the next game and pays the winners. The problem with this is someone also welches on the money eventually and the host is left paying the money or the game breaks up.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
The game I’m playing in every Thursday now has a people begging to get into it though!!!

So there are plenty of people that want to play $2/5, but don’t want to do it at the casino.
Click to expand...

I think you have found an answer to your question. You don't identify the stupid rules or go into any details on how the game is poorly run, but I am sure players who like to play $2/$5 would prefer a more professional atmosphere.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
So my friend and I want to start up our own $2/5 game.

An invite only higher stakes game. It will be catered food, top shelf drinks, attractive woman serving said food and drinks, pro dealer.

Our target players are people making $150k+ per year that don’t really want to play at the casino. Small business owners, lawyers, corporate sales types, people that are competitive but not really hard core poker players.

So my question is how do I find them???
We have a few of these type within our large network of players, but I think I need a few “fish” to get them to show up on a regular basis.

I don’t want to poach players from the game we just started playing in for a few reasons. We don’t want to burn that bridge and I don’t want them to try to bring their stupid rules and poorly run game style to my game.

So any ideas on recruiting some higher stakes players that aren’t sharks?
Click to expand...

I am surprised that your thread hasn't elicited more responses. You want to turn your romanticized vision of an underground game into reality. Have you thought this through? How do you plan on turning a profit after paying for the catered food, top shelf liquor, attractive female servers and pro dealers? A fee at the door? Table rake? Seat charge? Tips? A combination of the four? What about other associated costs? Like the costs of building out of a poker room that will match the atmosphere you are trying to create?

I cant speak to the underground games available in Cleveland, but I use to be an active player in the underground circuit where I live. I was very selective about which underground games I attended, because I did not want to be involved in a raid. When raided, charges are typically not levied against the players, however, authorities have recorded names of the attendees. They will confiscate the poker tables, chairs, poker chips, playing cards, money, and anything else they deem as a source of profit to the host. Obviously, you will not have a liquor license, so you are exposing yourself to a whole new set of liabilities. (Alcohol was not served in the two underground games that I played in)

Anyone can report you. A disgruntled "fish" that you thought might be good for the game, an employee who feels they have been mistreated, someone from the $2/$5 game you are playing in now, etc. (The hosts of the two underground games I played in kept a low profile and did not attend other home games, probably for good reason.)

Food for thought.
 
+1 on security!

This is what happens when word gets out on a regular game... and it looks like they were only playing $1/$2...


Although the "word on the street" is it was an inside job... A new player worked his way to get an invite, became a reg, and had his friends rip the game off. It's obvious robbers even knew about the security cam... one guy wore a mask, and the other stayed entirely out of view.
 
justsomedude said:
+1 on security!

This is what happens when word gets out on a regular game... and it looks like they were only playing $1/$2...

Although the "word on the street" is it was an inside job... A new player worked his way to get an invite, became a reg, and had his friends rip the game off.
Click to expand...

Hey, I know that donkey!
 
I’m not looking to make a profit from running the game itself. If I break even I will be happy. I want to create a game that attracts players wanting to play for more than a $200 buy in and aren’t the regs at the casino grinding it out every day for a living.

If I can do it without offering up food, drinks etc that would be great, but that is what the players here expect.

The dealer works for tips. The server would also, but that is only if the players want it. If they would rather get their own food and drinks then she wouldn’t be used.

The cost of food, and drinks would be raked from the pot.

I realize there is always a chance of running into the law, but in 15+ years of playing games in this area I haven’t heard of a single game being raided. Most of them have cops playing in them, including the game I currently play in now on Thursdays.

I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it seems as long as you aren’t involved with drugs or the mob or something like that, nobody cares.
 
I have often wondered if underground games might have more to fear from state and federal tax authorities than local law enforcement. Such games have sizable amounts of cash coming and going, few records supporting the sources, uses and distribution of funds. I think someone operating such a venture runs a serious risk of massive civil penalties and some risk for criminal sanctions. While the local LEOs might take your gambling paraphernalia, the tax authorities will come after everything.

As for transferring money via digital means - - you do realize that such transactions leave never ending footprints, don't you? And that every person playing / exchanging funds comes with a risk that they are going to lead unrelated investigations right into your honey pot. Personally, I'd rather run the risk of robbery than the risk of a federal tax investigation. That is just me, no doubt other folks feel differently. I am not going to pay for chips any way but in cash and would expect cash back when I cash out.

I strongly encourage anyone contemplating "grey area" ventures such as this to consult a local lawyer. This isn't a do it yourself sort of thing. Hero is going to run hundreds of thousands of dollars through his game, perhaps millions and have no records and likely not file a business tax return. This is not about your gambling wins and losses - it is about your business not reporting itself, not filing 1099s, not reporting your staff's wages / tips / compensation. Sure you say it isn't about making a profit, but a lack of profitability is not a defense to failure to file.

Bottom line is this is a bad idea. If you want to run a true home $2/$5 game, great. If you want to run an unlawful game and take all the associated risks, then try to make some money to compensate yourself for the risks.

My $0.02 -=- DrStrange
 
So you are looking for high earning donkeys who don't care about dropping some money on 2/5? Could be a tough search. In my experience, most folks with a gambler's spirit and money to burn are playing craps or blackjack. If they decided to slow down and play some NLHE, it's usually for fun, they'll sit with a few hundred bucks, donk that away and get wasted.

Tight-ass high earners are a different story. They are aware of the rake, along with security risks and the overall atmosphere. They are usually too busy to play a ton of poker and will play stakes they are comfortable with, which will sometimes only be 0.50/1 or even 1/1.

This isn't to say that you can't find someone here or there that fits your criteria, but in my experience, high earnings and poker degeneracy don't always correlate.
 
Move to the Bay haha. We have a pretty large player pool of home game regs and we can usually scrounge up a game between $.5/1 and $2/5 on a couple days’ notice. I was playing in a weekly $1/3 $1000 cap game that got bumped to $2/5 $500-2000 which got a little big for my bankroll. Crazy action, decent but not great players, I just can’t handle the swings at those levels.

I’d say start with a couple buddies that you know that want to play those stakes, play 5-6 handed if you need to and slowly invite TRUSTED players into the game, 2nd degree connections can be introduced 1 by 1 maybe. I would NOT invite players from local casinos, we’ve had a couple small home games in the area robbed by friends of friends from casino games, there’s some shady degens out there who I wouldn’t play with outside a secure casino. I wouldn’t start with servers or even a dealer unless you can get one cheap. Make it feel like a casual friendly home game vs an “underground” game, maybe provide snacks and drinks, but when it starts to feel like an operation I’d be concerned. Good luck! If you’re ever out in the Bay lemme know and I’m sure I can scrounge up a good $2/5 game on a little notice haha.
 
I would never use PayPal for that. Your just asking for problems and leaving a trail. And if they lock you out in a game, you just lost your ability to pay out the mass. Just do cash, have security, don't have money on the table, and have a quality bolted safe for chips when not in use.

I personally wouldn't do it, but if you are gonna, do it right and smart.
 
Payback said:
If you figure out the answer hats off to you, but this is a super tall order. Think about the criteria need huge incomes, must love to play, not mind losing over the long run.

I think the trick is finding people that will play smaller stakes often and then once in a while get a "special" higher stakes game going. Then your short term winners from the smaller stakes can help fill some seats in the higher game even if they usually would not play that high.
Click to expand...

Do not agree. We do have such a game, and we ave been playing for almost three years now. Once, sometimes twice a week. It has taken a while to put it together, but the ingredients aren’t magic potion, but a list of ‘do’s and don’ts’. Obviously something that has worked in our game doesn’t necessarily work in every game, but I think there are similarities between player pool/types.
 
We had the large house here shut down a couple of years ago. A player lost his paycheck, and once his wife found out she proceeded to call up every law enforcement agency and authority about it. Guy who ran it got in alot of trouble with the amount of cash going in and out and they went thru his finances with a fine tooth comb, and the homeowner who rented him the house got smashed too, because they were able to prove that he knew the entire time.... I think he might have lost his house.

Only time a house got busted around here, but it's still something to think about....
 
Rhodeman77 said:
I’m not looking to make a profit from running the game itself. If I break even I will be happy. I want to create a game that attracts players wanting to play for more than a $200 buy in and aren’t the regs at the casino grinding it out every day for a living.

If I can do it without offering up food, drinks etc that would be great, but that is what the players here expect.

The dealer works for tips. The server would also, but that is only if the players want it. If they would rather get their own food and drinks then she wouldn’t be used.

The cost of food, and drinks would be raked from the pot.

I realize there is always a chance of running into the law, but in 15+ years of playing games in this area I haven’t heard of a single game being raided. Most of them have cops playing in them, including the game I currently play in now on Thursdays.

I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it seems as long as you aren’t involved with drugs or the mob or something like that, nobody cares.
Click to expand...

I don’t know anything about the gray area. We have a no-rake game. None. Zero. We have lots of professionals with licenses that play in the game and everyone appreciates the fact that they will never be in harms way. This has attracted a lot of chatter, and over time wepeople are introducing other players to the game.

We have a strict policy of screening individual. It doesn’t involve a background check :eek: but does require other payers vouching for you. Our players have never cared about the chips we play with and whether they cost $0.20 each or $$6,000/rack. What they do care is a good game in a VERY nice environment. So, dark basements, broken chairs, crappy dining tables in the middle of the garage would never work. Again, for some groups it might.

We never settle the game in cash. This is mostly due to security concerns, but also for practical purposes. Everyone writes check to each other. But in a few months, I envision we will use Apple Cash and maybe even Venmo. I understand that some will run into issues of ‘bad check’, but again, this is a part of our vetting process. And we do have a protocol for ‘bad checks’ as well. Everyone brings enough money to pay for food, drinks, massages, and Misc. expenses.

Also, we never allow grinders or pros in our game. None. Never.

It takes time to build a good game. But like any other ‘business’, a lot of it is about customer service. And don’t forget to recognize who these people are and what it is they want in a game they would want to play frequently vs. going to a casino, or other games. In due time, you will be turning away people, as we have been doing for a couple of years.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
I realize there is always a chance of running into the law, but in 15+ years of playing games in this area I haven’t heard of a single game being raided. Most of them have cops playing in them, including the game I currently play in now on Thursdays.

I’m not saying it can’t happen, but it seems as long as you aren’t involved with drugs or the mob or something like that, nobody cares.
Click to expand...

It is Important to note the differences between a home game and an underground game. In the State of Maine you are free to play for whatever stakes you like as long as the house or no one else is receiving money from the hosting of the game. By and large, the authorities look at the intent of the game when enforcing the law. In other words, they target games that are run specifically for profit and/or mimic the operations of a casino.

From time to time, I play in a rake free $2/$5 game hosted by a very successful business person. He provides a home cooked meal, usually steak and pasta. In return, players are expected to tip him $10 in advance. Players who do not, are dropped from his list. I do not need to worry about this game being raided.

Underground games thrived during the poker boom. That changed swiftly after our local casino announced the opening date of their card room in 2011. The authorities raided the one nearest the casino first, and two others within 12 months. The last two raids were well publicized.

I believe it is incumbent upon the host to know how the law is applied in his or her State and the associated risks/consequences involved if he or she decides to break those laws. Does the $2/$5 game you are playing in now violate your State's gaming laws?
 
First, without being too pushy, can you work to improve the game you are playing? Talk with the host and see what you might be able to incrementally improve.

Second, I think getting a few guys from your current game would be acceptable as long as you are not playing on Thursday night.

Third, if I was doing this, I think the best guys I know to network players are a couple of the local Morgan Stanley guys. Real estate guys would also probably have connections. Lifetime locals, golf club members are going to know people.

Forth, I think I could recruit from the casino. I talk to guys all the time. I don't think it's that hard to figure out who the degens are, and who the good guys are. Dealers would also be able to tell you who the dicks are.

Finally, if you can't 2/5 going, maybe you could get 1/3 going and just try to make it play big - $500 max buy in, you and your buddy straddle, bump the action a little.

It all seems really easy from behind my PC :)

Good Luck
 
"I do not need to worry about this game being raided/robbed."

Famous last words. Don't worry (or fail to plan accordingly) and it WILL happen, eventually..... unless all of your players are bots and not humans.

Just too many variables beyond your control, and money does not bring out the best in people.
 
Rhodeman77 said:
So my question is how do I find them???
We have a few of these type within our large network of players, but I think I need a few “fish” to get them to show up on a regular basis. I don’t want to poach players from the game we just started playing in for a few reasons. We don’t want to burn that bridge and I don’t want them to try to bring their stupid rules and poorly run game style to my game.
So any ideas on recruiting some higher stakes players that aren’t sharks?
Click to expand...

If you are a casino reg and have developed any relationships with the dealers, securing a handful of them to deal your game will not only secure good dealers but also open a major channel for obtaining players. Dealers in my parts are good at recruiting (splashy) players. When the potential player is getting bridged to a game by a dealer they know, there's inherited trust for them to attend/have interest.

We don't need players for our home games but I regularly get dealers asking me to deal in our game and that "they can get player X or Y". The reality is I go to casino/cardroom to grind but the home game is for suckouts and banter.
 
I know someone brought up FBI investigations because of digital transfers however I think that is a relative low probability. If it was me I would go with exclusively digital deposits and payouts. It really isn't hard to do and you don't need to expose yourself as banker. Nobody gets chips until the e-transfer or paypal transaction is complete.

If your game gets known on the street as a "cashless" game the chances of your game getting mugged goes way down.

In my experience the best way to get something going is just to start it. It is easier to invite players when the cards are in the air.

Maybe you don't start with comped food and waitresses but let that evolve over time and let the players make their preferences known. Some people are fine with gambling for 1-2k but then get nitty about tipping a waitress and would prefer to just go mix their own drinks...

I would keep it simple to start...you already have a nice setup so just start the game even if it isn't many people to start.
 
guinness said:
If you are a casino reg and have developed any relationships with the dealers, securing a handful of them to deal your game will not only secure good dealers but also open a major channel for obtaining players. Dealers in my parts are good at recruiting (splashy) players. When the potential player is getting bridged to a game by a dealer they know, there's inherited trust for them to attend/have interest.

We don't need players for our home games but I regularly get dealers asking me to deal in our game and that "they can get player X or Y". The reality is I go to casino/cardroom to grind but the home game is for suckouts and banter.
Click to expand...

I know several dealers, more from playing home games with them since they can’t play at the casino themselves. I’ll reach out to a few of them. My poker time is limited currently to about 1 night a week and that is at home games. Casino time is usually a last resort. That’s the main reason I’m having my friend help set up the game. He had more free time to recruit players.
 
But if your paypal is hooked into a checking account, or debit card, the transaction is not immediate. I can PP over $300 now even though my account only has $12 in it. I can do it again and again, but the process defers a business day.

I am not sure if it will ultimately cancel the transaction due to NSF, or just put the person's account into a very negative balance.

It has happened to me when I sent funds, but I was off by a few bucks based on what was in that account at the time. my account went negative, but I fixed it right away.
 
krafticus said:
But if your paypal is hooked into a checking account, or debit card, the transaction is not immediate. I can PP over $300 now even though my account only has $12 in it. I can do it again and again, but the process defers a business day.
Click to expand...
Not true for a PP business account. Regardless of my actual PP balance, I can transfer funds to another PP account -- choosing either my PP balance, bank balance, or credit card -- and the transfer of funds is immediate in all three cases.

The only delay experienced is when I transfer money from the PP account to my bank account -- that takes a day. If I were to add a PP debit card, I could use any ATM to withdraw the PP funds immediately.

An additional advantage of setting up a business PP account is that there are no limits on number of transactions or on total $$ amount of transfers.
 

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