More chips stolen by USPS (1 Viewer)
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moose
4 of a Kind
Its amazing how stuff gets miraculously "found" as soon as one gets the fraud department or law enforcement involved. I'm glad that its looking likely that you'll get your stuff in the end
I think they have a special room for "shit we're gonna steal but we will leave it here in the 'machine malfunction' room for a week and see if anybody complains".
Throwing in the towel, box is gone. Was dropped off in one of those heavy-duty after-hours package drop boxes along with ~15 other Ysabel packages. All others were delivered, only this one box was not scanned at all. Have refunded the buyer.Damn that sucks. I currently have a claim with USPS for a lost box of 4 racks of Ysabel $2s
Glad it worked out in the end. I guess it doesn't always go that way. Certainly not in Navels situation.
Seems like it gets pretty sticky when something goes missing. It's not the seller or buyers fault, yet I've seen a couple of instances where the seller takes the hit. I've bought insurance a few times with USPS. Probably should have on several more.
Wondering what peoples thoughts are on the subject of insurance? Doesn't seem to be the norm on PCF. Are we being cheap as buyers to not pay the extra few bucks when talking about hundreds or thousands of dollars stuffed in a $15 dollar flat rate box? Or as a seller should it be priced into the deal or added to the shipping cost?
Seems like it gets pretty sticky when something goes missing. It's not the seller or buyers fault, yet I've seen a couple of instances where the seller takes the hit. I've bought insurance a few times with USPS. Probably should have on several more.
Wondering what peoples thoughts are on the subject of insurance? Doesn't seem to be the norm on PCF. Are we being cheap as buyers to not pay the extra few bucks when talking about hundreds or thousands of dollars stuffed in a $15 dollar flat rate box? Or as a seller should it be priced into the deal or added to the shipping cost?
I'm afraid to ask if you had insurance
I get insurance on anything I ship that would hurt to lose. For me, that probably means a few hundred dollars.
I did not. As a seller I feel it's on the buyer to ask (and pay extra) for insurance. Once the package is in the hands of USPS, any problems would be up to them to figure out. However in this case I can't prove it made it to USPS (according to tracking it did not) and I made a good profit on the Ysabel flip so am inclined to just take the loss as part of the deal.
As a seller and a shipper, you should learn about the law regarding this stuff. This is friendly and free advice, but until those chips are in your buyer's hands, the liability is 100% on you. This isn't my opinion, it's legal fact. At least in the USA. I have no idea how other big chip sellers deal with this. The USPS is remarkably reliable, big picture, so maybe it's a safe gamble to go without insurance, but it is a gamble.
Having sold and bought from here, I agree with this. If I'm buying something that I paid more than I'm comfortable losing, I'll ask the seller if I can insure the package to that amount. I'm happy to pay the extra few bucks for the peace of mind.
When selling, besides making sure the contents of the box are safe, secured, and protected, I feel my liability ends in terms of the package making it to the destination as soon as it's dropped off at the post office.
Edit: Of course if the USPS screws the pooch and they are really delayed, jacked some of my stuff, then I will either make the buyer whole the best that I can, or won't rest until the missing contents are found.
This is an incorrect statement of the law. No trying to be a dick here, just trying to be helpful.
Maybe @WedgeRock our respected barrister has some input.
Yep, I get that's what the law says, although it's not the convention on PCF (as far as I can tell). If I end up having any more sales as a vendor I should probably start taking insurance, it is pretty cheap.
The convention of PCF is another story, and I have no idea what that really is. If I never got these chips, I would have asked the seller to pay for half their value, knowing full well that he was responsible for the entire amount, but also being reasonable about what seems fair.
EDITED TO ADD - But we're talking about like $20 - it's easy for me to be reasonable about that.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I thought the same thing when I read it, but wasn't sure if using the USPS changed the rules.
FOB (freight on board) terms determine who bears the risk in transit on a commercial shipping situation.
FOB (destination) means the seller bears the risk of loss until the goods reach that destination. If I (in Detroit) sells chips to someone in California, and specify FOB Detroit, once the goods leave Detroit, the buyer has the risk of loss during transit. FOB California would mean I (the seller) bear the risk of loss during shipment.
Their is a default if FOB terms are not defined in the contract. IIRC, the uniform commercial code puts the risk of loss on the seller if not defined. So maybe that's what @JMC9389 was referring to... Default if not defined in the terms between the parties.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
When I sell chips, I always specify that risk of loss in transit is on the buyer, but I would do whatever I could to help make them whole. Haven't lost a package yet (knock on wood). If I was a vendor, however, I might operate differently. You did the right thing here .
I would use your experience in this sale to determine the percentage of chips/packages lost and build that into the cost. Then, when an unfortunate situation happens, you can replace the chips/issue a refund and not be out-of-pocket for those costs. It's a cost of doing business and one that shouldn't come from profits, IMO.
Oh the age old debate about shipping and liability on PCF.
Yes, sorry, this is what I meant. Was tipsy last night and wasn't specific.
Somebody was paying attention in contracts class
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
That class was 20+ years ago and I've never dealt with UCC contracts since... So get the advice of a real lawyer before acting.
Yes. And don't take the advice of a drunk guy at 12am.
Yeah, don't listen to me. I'm the furthest thing from a lawyer.
When I sell, I highly recommend insurance if the buyer wants to pay for it. If something happens en route to the package, whether there's $10 or $1000 worth of material in it, I'll go through hell or high water to help the buyer find a resolution, whether it's shaking down USPS to "find " the package after it got "lost", or refund them completely if that proves fruitless.
(I meant me as the drunk guy, fwiw)
I just pay for the insurance on my own,, when the numbers get high, to give myself some level of comfort.
Somebody should do some research on this, though. While @WedgeRock 's FOB comments can certainly apply to sophisticated commercial contracts, I'm not sure that in our transactions, the act of writing into the classified ad that the buyer assumes the risk is sufficient. Does that become a condition of a contract once the buyer paypals the cash? I'm not sure.
Bottom line is that we need to just try to deal with each other as best we can, because realistically, nobody here is ending up in court. But we should still try to do it right, and I'm not sure that "buyer assumes the risk" language is right.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
It got close, tho...
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Client confidentiality...
Lesson to learn: Don't fuck with PCF.
BirdCage
Flush
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that people land on both sides of the who is responsible debate, but as a two decade plus eBayer, I align with eBay's rules for all of my seller actions, regardless of the sales platform. I feel that the seller is responsible to ensure the item makes it into the buyer's hands. There can be many "what if" scenarios, but for best results, best karma and overall happiness of all parties, this philosophy has worked for me for decades.
If the seller of every transaction assumes they are the "business", which is effectively the role they have accepted when offering an item for sale, like eBay, Amazon, Target, Instacart, etc., then delivery to the buyer is on them (unless otherwise explicitly stated).
In a lifetime of package exchange that numbers thousands, I've been involved with exactly two lost items, several damaged items and numerous delayed delivery of items. In each and every case, the seller has taken the loss - whether I was on the buying or selling end.
Another way to view the occasional uninsured loss as a seller, is that you are self-insuring all packages. Buy not purchasing insurance on packages that you release into the world you are saving a small amount per package which may be offset upon occasion. You are effectively self-insured.
Note: For very valuable items, buy insurance!
Another Note: To avoid confusion (assuming clarity is needed), maybe the best strategy for this forum is to modify/incorporate a default responsibility rule for PCF sales guidelines - which could be modified in an ad if desired by the seller. That being said, I'd interpret the forum rule to mean that the seller is responsible, see rule below:
"DISCLAIMER: By using the classified section, you assume responsibility for any transaction occurring between yourself and another member."
If the seller of every transaction assumes they are the "business", which is effectively the role they have accepted when offering an item for sale, like eBay, Amazon, Target, Instacart, etc., then delivery to the buyer is on them (unless otherwise explicitly stated).
In a lifetime of package exchange that numbers thousands, I've been involved with exactly two lost items, several damaged items and numerous delayed delivery of items. In each and every case, the seller has taken the loss - whether I was on the buying or selling end.
Another way to view the occasional uninsured loss as a seller, is that you are self-insuring all packages. Buy not purchasing insurance on packages that you release into the world you are saving a small amount per package which may be offset upon occasion. You are effectively self-insured.
Note: For very valuable items, buy insurance!
Another Note: To avoid confusion (assuming clarity is needed), maybe the best strategy for this forum is to modify/incorporate a default responsibility rule for PCF sales guidelines - which could be modified in an ad if desired by the seller. That being said, I'd interpret the forum rule to mean that the seller is responsible, see rule below:
"DISCLAIMER: By using the classified section, you assume responsibility for any transaction occurring between yourself and another member."
One Eyed Dollar
Flush
My co-worker is going through an interesting shipping issue right now, and I'm curious how you guys think it should be resolved.
He preordered some expensive headphones about 4 months ago from a guy in Ukraine that makes them. His finally shipped, but the seller's printer broke and he had to hand-write the address. I assume that he is used to writing in Cyrillic and this was not easy for him, because his writing was not great. He left off the zip code completely, and his spelling of "Aurora, CO" in all caps looked more like "AUTOTA, CO". Somewhere in the shipping system this got interpreted as Augusta, GA even though there isn't a street with that name or number in Augusta. Anyway, they went out for delivery in Augusta yesterday, and he called USPS to see what can be done.
The post office basically told him that he will never receive that package at this point. Worst case, somebody gets it and keeps it. Best case, they return it to the sender and it goes back to Ukraine. So my co-worker is telling the seller that he's liable for shipping screw-up and needs to send him a replacement, but the seller is trying to say that he did nothing wrong and printed the address clearly, so it's the post office's fault. What do you guys think?
He preordered some expensive headphones about 4 months ago from a guy in Ukraine that makes them. His finally shipped, but the seller's printer broke and he had to hand-write the address. I assume that he is used to writing in Cyrillic and this was not easy for him, because his writing was not great. He left off the zip code completely, and his spelling of "Aurora, CO" in all caps looked more like "AUTOTA, CO". Somewhere in the shipping system this got interpreted as Augusta, GA even though there isn't a street with that name or number in Augusta. Anyway, they went out for delivery in Augusta yesterday, and he called USPS to see what can be done.
The post office basically told him that he will never receive that package at this point. Worst case, somebody gets it and keeps it. Best case, they return it to the sender and it goes back to Ukraine. So my co-worker is telling the seller that he's liable for shipping screw-up and needs to send him a replacement, but the seller is trying to say that he did nothing wrong and printed the address clearly, so it's the post office's fault. What do you guys think?
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Since everything else here was based on good faith, I just always assumed (until I asked one day), seller, you in good faith will do what you can to get it there, and buyer, you will attempt to retrieve it and not lie about delivery.
As buyer or seller, I couldn’t imagine leaving someone with even a $300 loss by no fault of their own, let alone $1K+. I’m not a big player, but in the last year and a half I’ve bought and sold $15-$20,000 in chips, and I think I’ve asked or been asked about insurance once? Maybe twice?
As buyer or seller, I couldn’t imagine leaving someone with even a $300 loss by no fault of their own, let alone $1K+. I’m not a big player, but in the last year and a half I’ve bought and sold $15-$20,000 in chips, and I think I’ve asked or been asked about insurance once? Maybe twice?
BirdCage
Flush
This is just a practice question, right?!
100% the seller's responsibility and mistake (not legibly or completely labeling an international package!!!!!!)
That being said, have faith. I would bet that the intended recipient (your co-worker) eventually receives the package. USPS is actually excellent and most people are actually honest.
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