Dodger
Flush
Not sure whether to laugh, cry, or throw something...
Missing USPS package. Help please! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JP1984
- Start date
Not sure whether to laugh, cry, or throw something...
I wonder this every time I ship out another package of chips. What if they actually never show up. Who is expected to take the loss on the value of the chips? What is a fair solution between buyer / seller?
Normally I would call usps and ask about the package to at least put it on their radar.
but these are Cuban cigars and I didn’t know if there any import or customs issues. I saw it was “tendered to military agent” and I was like “oh shieet” so I left it alone hahha.
But I checked it this morning and it popped up at my local distribution center.
So I think the real takeaway is if your package is lost or isn’t showing tracking....post it on PCF lol
Dodger
Flush
Right!? Seems like posting here always gets things moving. Haha!
coolguy101
Two Pair
The responsibility is actually on the receiver, not the shipper. Let me give you an example. I recently shipped an item, and the package was torn open during shipping. One part was missing from the shipment. The receiver cried about it, so I finally opened a claim against my better judgment. Sure enough - USPS wants pictures of the damaged package, etc. I asked the receiver for pics. They had thrown the package away. Because I could not provide proof, USPS denied my claim. According to USPS, both the shipper and receiver can file a claim. It’s not only for the shipper to do. Never again will I take responsibility for a claim. Interestingly enough, when most businesses ship b2b, the shipper usually has a clause in the purchase agreement that once an item ships they are no longer responsible for the shipment. The company I work for had a whole pallet get lost by UPS freight. The vendor said that we were SOL when UPS said they couldn’t find it. It’s quite normal in the business world, but individual buyers don’t know better and will never accept that they are expected to lose money if something goes wrong. It’s always the other guy who is supposed to lose money
Cool, great reminder to never do business with you...
Your package went into the NY dumpster.
chipinla
4 of a Kind
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Love the combo of these 4 chips together.
CrazyEddie
Full House
Agreeing as to who is responsible for loss or damage should not be a contentious issue. It could go either way. All that's necessary is for both parties to agree up front. It should be no more difficult to agree on who bears the risk than it is to agree on a price. There's no particular moral weight on it being either party.
There's also nothing wrong with people having different expectations as to who bears the risk by default in the lack of an explicit agreement. People come from different backgrounds and are used to different practices. If two people have different expectations and don't agree on something explicitly then there's going to be trouble should there be a loss, and that's unfortunate. But it's not a moral issue. It's kind of silly to refuse to do business with someone over a difference in expectations that could be resolved without rancor by a single sentence in an email prior to exchanging money and goods.
There's also nothing wrong with people having different expectations as to who bears the risk by default in the lack of an explicit agreement. People come from different backgrounds and are used to different practices. If two people have different expectations and don't agree on something explicitly then there's going to be trouble should there be a loss, and that's unfortunate. But it's not a moral issue. It's kind of silly to refuse to do business with someone over a difference in expectations that could be resolved without rancor by a single sentence in an email prior to exchanging money and goods.
From a legal perspective, in the US at least, the risk of loss defaults to being on the receiver once the goods are delivered to the carrier. People are obviously free to change that default rule by agreement, but I just always assume that in my dealings on PCF unless otherwise specified the risk of loss is on the buyer, not the seller, once the chips are delivered to the carrier.
I also wouldn’t expect a seller to take financial responsibility for a lost package but I would expect the seller to do what’s in their power to help out i.e. file a claim. Dunno if there’s anything else to do. Luckily nothing’s gone missing for me neither as sender nor recipient.
philhut
Flush
Recieved both of my cut card orders....~3weeks and the other ~7 weeks from USA to Canada lol
CdnBeerLover
Full House
USPS requires the party who has the original mailing receipt to make the claim. Would the receiver have that?
https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm
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This does not seem to be the case by default ...
I have been shipping 100 to 200 packages a week for my business for years, and I can tell you that all Credit card companies, Amazon etc will all always side with the buyer if a seller essentially tells them , "Go pound sand, I mailed it on the 5th & that's the end of it on my end"
The seller is the shipper of record, and "hired" the package carrier of their choosing as his agent to get it to the buyer.
The seller also packed the item, labeled and sealed the package ( correctly or incorrectly), may or may not have purchased insurance, the buyer has no control over any of this ...
As a buyer, at least in a retail, non private transaction, if you order something and simply never receive it , it's of course not "your fault" you didn't get it, , you are paying for the seller to deliver the as described item to You, not just to his local UPS store, if it is lost or damaged, they did not fulfill their end of the transaction, and must refund or replace the item, not you.
In private transactions such as chip sales here, I have always either just listed, and know it's my responsibility if something were to happen , or put very clearly in the listing that I am not responsible after the item is scanned as picked up ...
If someone hires & pays "Bob the contractor" to remodel their kitchen, & the house is set on fire or the stove is stolen, "Bob" can't say to the buyer that he's keeping the money, not responsible since he sub-hired "charlies's plumbing" ... It's up to Bob to make his customer whole, and go after Charlie himself ...
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I’m not sure that what you are saying is inconsistent with my statement. Many sites like Amazon, eBay, and others change the default rule. But it is still the default rule and would apply in private transactions unless stated otherwise. I don’t want to get into contracts for services, which have entirely different rules.
If you don’t want to take my word for it, here is the relevant UCC provision.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-509
paul sydney
Flush
I make sure the packages I send are reinforced and "rainproofed" with plenty of clear tape, which also prevents the delivery information from scrubbing/washing off.
The sender might not be liable for a damaged or missing package once it's in possession of the carrier,
but they still could be responsible (at fault) if packaged poorly (leading to damage) or
addressed incorrectly (failing to be delivered).
Only domestically.
International claims can only be initiated by the sender.
OP
OP
JP1984
Flush
The chips turned up guys. I'm busy murdering them with a single malt and The Who blasting. There's no need for any drama 
The chips turned up guys. I'm busy murdering them with a single malt and The Who blasting. There's no need for any drama
I got mine 2 days after posting it here. Haha
coolguy101
Two Pair
THIS! Nobody seems to understand that. If they don’t want to take a risk, pick up what you want to buy in person. If that isn’t possible, then assume the risk
coolguy101
Two Pair
That is because it is part of the user agreement the sellers are bound to when they open an account. eBay doesn’t follow the law per se, but rather creates their own buyer friendly policies.
I had this happen with the very first high value package that I was sent through a PCF purchase. @navels dropped off the packages into his local post office kiosk, and they were never scanned in.
We were both on pins and needles for about 3 weeks, and the the packages finally showed up, delivered, even though they never had a scan-in.
My only suggestion for the future on high value packages is to not use the “postperson pick up” method, or the “kiosk / mailbin” drop-off method. Even though it takes a second, I highly recommend having someone at the counter scan it into possession, so that the tracking appears, and it’s in the system.
My latest USPS fiasco, not poker chip related but a pretty important letter sent certified mail:
ParrotheadMZ
Flush
That’s great news.The chips turned up guys. I'm busy murdering them with a single malt and The Who blasting. There's no need for any drama
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
If the package verifiably was accepted at a post office and went MIA i feel like the default should be that the loss is split but there’s no rule that says it will be which makes for a shifty grey area.
sellers of course can put the “once it’s delivered to the post office it’s out of my hands” tag line which I guess is pretty unambiguous but I feel like there should be some official forum guideline for when nothing is specified.
sellers of course can put the “once it’s delivered to the post office it’s out of my hands” tag line which I guess is pretty unambiguous but I feel like there should be some official forum guideline for when nothing is specified.
OP
OP
JP1984
Flush
That's a relief Joe! Thanks for the heads up!
coolguy101
Two Pair
In my experience in the business world, unless otherwise specified, once a shipment is picked up by the carrier, the shipper aka seller is no longer responsible. I had to file two freight claims this month as the receiver. Buying insurance only allows me to try to collect my lost money from the insurer. The shipper is not responsible.
“Regular” people, aka people who don’t ship commercially for a living, tend to not understand this. They feel that if a purchase is not personally delivered to their outstretched hand, they should get their money back. I had someone tell me those exact words.
Places such as Amazon and eBay have changed the rules to favor the receiver, as they want to eliminate the risk of buying things online, because that is their entire business model; online shopping. Buyers have all the power with them.
So, people conflate that with what should be expected when they purchase something from a private person, because that is their experience with Amazon. But private people aren’t Jeff Bezos with billions of dollars, so they tend not to be so cavalier about their money and don’t want to be out because USPS lost the shipment. Nobody wants to lose money, that is for sure.
But traditionally, the buyer assumes all risk. They always have the option to pick it up or have it picked up themselves, when possible. That is the only way to guarantee delivery.
Stufflymcstuff
Flush
These transactions are more like an eBay sale than a b2b sale … but really, the important thing is that there aren’t surprises. I’m guessing a lot of users would not expect liability to be entirely on the buyers. Maybe there’s a faq that mentions this and I’m not aware.
Fwiw I have no idea how shipping companies get away with zero liability when they clearly received it and clearly lost it.
I’m not that familiar with American law but I think there are cases where they can be liable, it’s just that once it becomes international they can basically just pawn it off as being government related (which is a out of jail free card as I understand it).
Fwiw I have no idea how shipping companies get away with zero liability when they clearly received it and clearly lost it.
I’m not that familiar with American law but I think there are cases where they can be liable, it’s just that once it becomes international they can basically just pawn it off as being government related (which is a out of jail free card as I understand it).
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