Cash Game Help me on my set breakdown for cash AND tournament

ejc

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I'm looking to get a single chip set that would be used for both cash games and tournaments. Here would be the details of the game:
  • 1,000 chip set
  • Accommodate up to 20 players for both game formats (with 10 or so rebuys in tournaments)
  • Cash games would be anywhere between $0.25/$0.50 and $1/2
  • Tournaments would be T20,000
Here's what I'm thinking for a breakdown:

100 (used for $0.25)
200 (used for $1 in cash and 100 in tournament)
500 (used for $5 in cash and 500 in tournament)
100 (used for $25 in cash and 2,500 in tournament)
80 (used for $100 in cash and 5,000 in tournament)
20 (used for $500 in cash)

Would appreciate any advice from the seasoned veterans here.

Thanks,

EJC
 

JMC9389

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general advice is do not mix your cash and tournament chips. Don't want someone in a tournament slipping a 25 in their pocket ina tournament and then slipping it into cash game.
This. But if you want to use the same set for cash and tournament games on separate nights, knock yourself out. Just make sure that if you run a cash game and tournament at the same time on the same night that you use a different set of chips at each table. Want to use the same set tonight for cash and the same set for a tournament a week later and a 2nd set for a post tournament cash game? Go for it! The purists will disagree but I see nothing wrong with it.

My next CPC set is going to have cash and tournament capabilities, but it won't be used simultaneously for a cash game and a tournament.
 

JMC9389

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That all said, it is very difficult if not impossible to do one set for cash at those stakes with a T20000 starting stack.

You will have way too many T500's and not enough T25 and T100 chips. I tried really hard to crunch numbers but there really is no good way to do this.
 

Coyote

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With anything more than a very friendly single table tournament, having the same set for cash and tourney is a no-go, unless your tournament units represent exactly the same amount of cash (so an 100BB, T200 starting stack - if starting level blinds are 1/2-, would cost exactly the same as in cash, i.e. $200, etc).
Even so, don't ever use it for both kinds of game under the same roof simultaneously or successively.

Cash-game wise, the break-down you 're thinking of is pretty nice for a single table of 10 players; you don't really need $500s though. You can make an extra barrel of $100s or $25s.
For a second table, you don't have to double the quantities if you 're sure one table is going to play 1/2 and the other .25/.50.
200 more $1s could be OK (as a minimum)
 

JScott

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You can use this calculator I made and see if it helps.
Take the recommendations here and plug them in on the left in blue and then you can see if they work for your amount of players and stakes.

takes into account colour ups and everything. I put in your numbers and you’d need at least 1300 imo to have a separate cash and tourney set. Don’t mix

Chip calculator

7425AD81-DCED-49E9-8B06-5BEE0E413139.png
 
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ejc

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You can use this calculator I made and see if it helps.
Take the recommendations here and plug them in on the left in blue and then you can see if they work for your amount of players and stakes.

takes into account colour ups and everything. I put in your numbers and you’d need at least 1300 imo to have a separate cash and tourney set. Don’t mix

Chip calculator

View attachment 562229
Thank you! Extremely helpful!
 
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Why not just use the face value of the chips and have a T200? It doesn't have to be T20,000. That just adds confusion.
 

JustinInMN

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+1 for separating your sets. Even if it's completely innocent, if a T25 chip goes missing one night and found on the floor on cash night you will be sweating that as host.

That said you can do a 20 player tournament of T20K with 8/8/4/7/2 starting stacks of T25/100/500/1000/5000 for a total of 600 chips. Get 160/160/80/140/60 of T25/100/500/1000/5000 and you get enough for the 20 starting stacks I described, plus extra T5000 for reentries and to introduce for color ups.

But a 20 person cash set for 400 chips is tough for that range of stakes. I think you would need 1000 chips for that alone. Something like 200/300/400/80/20 of 0.25/1/5/25/100 for a bank of 6350.

Good luck.
 
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wolfpack

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My suggestion

If you can't budget enough for quality/custom cash and tournament then just plan to buy them seperate and different times.

If you realy play both equally then spend the money on a nice cash set and use cheap chips for your tournaments until you can save up and buy a better tournament set.
 

AnteAndy

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+1 for separating your sets. Even if it's completely innocent, if a T25 chip goes missing one night and found on the floor on cash night you will be sweating that as host.

That said you can do a 20 player tournament of T20K with 8/8/4/7/2 starting stacks of T25/100/500/1000/5000 for a total of 600 chips. Get 160/160/80/140/60 of T25/100/500/1000/5000 and you get enough for the 20 starting stacks I described, plus extra T5000 for reentries and to introduce for color ups.

But a 20 person cash set for 400 chips is tough for that range of stakes. I think you would need 1000 chips for that alone. Something like 200/300/400/80/20 of 0.25/1/5/25/100 for a bank of 6350.

Good luck.
Why not do a T100-Base tourney then? That way if you like having $25 chips you won't have to worry about it swapping between tourney and cash games.

Plus, I much prefer the 100-base structure compared to T25-base. Fewer chips needed generally, easier to count pots/stacks since it's all rounded to the nearest 100, and you won't have to color up until around halfway through the tournament at minimum.
 

JustinInMN

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Why not do a T100-Base tourney then? That way if you like having $25 chips you won't have to worry about it swapping between tourney and cash games.

Sure we could do that @ejc didn't specify ;).

A "tight" T20K starting stack would be something like 10/4/7/2 of T100/500/1000/5000.

Multiply by 20 to get a set of 200/40/80/20 (rounded to barrels), and add 60 T600 chips for rebuys and to introduce with color ups, that's 400 chips so we save two racks.

Still 600 chips is not enough to cover a two table cash set, so I still think it's optimistic to get this all under 1000 chips.
 

Coyote

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OK, I 'll start doing this for new members whenever I have the time.

@ejc you need at least 1,200 chips to cover two cash tables (or 1,600 if the stakes are similar beteween the two tables).
If you want something top-notch (and re-saleable) without waiting, searching, praying and getting lucky, here are your cash chips, off-the-shelf CPCs, casino-clay quality
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/hello-from-the-key-west-resort-casino.50/

You 'll also need 800 chips (pretty generously) for two tables of tournament and/or micro-stakes poker.
Here is what I would buy in your shoes (or even now, if I were not broke)
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/gpi-elites-big-sale.64210/

Whatever you do, please tell me in a year's time from now (Oct 28, 2020) if I were right or wrong:)
 

JustinInMN

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If you do take @AnteAndy 's suggestion of doing base T100 for tournaments that I broke down, I can think of a way to squeeze all of this in for 1200 chips total.

If you are willing to spread 0.50-0.50 (two blinds the same) instead of 0.25-0.50 you can probably save a rack of blind chips. 100 * 0.50 chips will do the job of 200*0.25 chips easily with this modification.

This would mean you could do the 400 chip tournament set of 200/40/80/80 of T100/500/1000/5000.

Then using 0.50 chips instead of 0.25 you can do an 800 chip cash set of 100/200/400/100 of 0.50/1/5/25 for a bank of 4750. That might be light for the higher stakes though. That's under 24 buy ins of 200 which means if you ever actually have 20 players, you would have to let 100 bills play on the table for rebuys after 23 buy ins exhaust the bank.. This also might be tight on singles for the lower stakes games if you do have two tables. (I just held a 0.50-1 game with 50 * 0.50 and 100 * 1 in play and we really felt light on singles 8-handed. I am going to do 150 * 1 next time.)

But I think this is my best suggestion to get you close to 1000, but for the range you are trying to cover and the size of the tournament, both sets will be on the tight side.
 

Natskule

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I know it's an old thread, but thought it was an interesting problem.

I'd go T 25¢.

Stealing and doubling a T 25¢ structure from @BGinGA.

240 x T.25
340 x T1
200 x T5 (includes 40x for T.25/T1 color-ups)
20 x T25 (allows up to 5 re-buys)
---------
800 chips

Then for a $0.25/$0.50 cash game add a rack of $1s and a rack of $5s, for 1,000 chips. Need a bunch More $5 for 1/2, but the best I could do.
 

allforcharity

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240x T25
240x T100
240x T500
140x T2K
40x T10K

20 stacks of 12/12/9/7 for T20K, enough T500 to colour up all T25/T100, and 20 rebuys with T10K for 900 chips. Add 100 extra chips of whatever denominations you want. Good to spread it around to cover losses/damage.

Use as cash by dividing all numbers by 100, giving you $0.25/$1/$5/$20/$100. Bank $8300 plus whatever your extra 100 chips will cover.


An alternative, giving slightly more workhorse chips for cash, could be:

160x T25
300x T100
300x T500
200x T2K
40x T10K

Stack changes to 8/13/13/6 for T20K, colour up with T25/T100/T500 with T2K. The 80 extra chips split between T100/T500 mainly for cash. Dividing by 100, total cash bank is $9840, split between two cash tables 80/150/150/100/20 just under $5000 each. Should easily cover 0.25/0.50 through most 1/2 games. If you need a really big bank, go back to 240/240 for $1/T100 and $5/T500 and add 60x $100/T10K and 20x $500/T50K, bank balloons to $25,600.
 
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philhut

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If you insist on using the same set for cash and tourney you may consider splitting your set into 2 divisions. Beware doing this results in large chip sets especially if you want sets that serve multiple tables for tournaments.

Most of the tourney's I play are t-1500-3000 and sometimes t-5000-10k with or without rebuys then after a certain number of players are out a cash game of $1/$2 or .25//50 or $2/$5 so what do you do......I like to issue 25/100 chips in sets of 8/8-12/12-16/16 or 20/20 chips then 500's and others depending on the starting stack size. So in a 2 table tourney players would often start with 2 stacks of 16, 25&100 value chips and in a 4 table tourney players would start with 8, 25&100 chips. One table you can obviously build chip mountains if desired or not.

This is what I do....
1- play a different set for cash than the tourney. Just picked up some of those Apache 36mm tourney chips and I can see using them a lot for this purpose
2- play your 25/100/500/1000/etc... chips in your tourney.........leave .25/$1/$5/$10 or $20 chips aside for cash game. Thus you use the same set but the chips are not mixed between tables.

Example 1 is pictured below....two sets one for cash in the bottom tray and tourney in the top tray.....This is a new case holds up to 2600 chips in racks
Tourney set

25-200

100-200

500-40

1000-40

5000-20
Cash set

1-300

2.50-100

5-400

25-200

100-150

500-50

1000-10
XWK1zex.jpg


Example 2 is a set of china clays i have and another a custom set I have on order... both allow for separate cash/tourney play but be aware you will need a lot more chips
Crazy horse

(mostly cash game use)

.50-200

1-300

5-400

50-200

(mostly tourney play)

25-325

100-325

500-150

1000-100

5000-25

10000-75 (used as bounty chips or buy-in/rebuy, got em in error in the order)

2100 chips, I have 50 cent and 50 dollar chips because that is what was available at the time. you could use a lot less tourney chips if just playing one table
Sloth Club

(mostly cash game use)

.25-120

1-200

5-400

10-200

(mostly tourney play)

25-330

100-330

500-180

1000-160

5000-40

Bounty 40

This set should work well for 4 tables in a tourney with rebuys etc.... and as for why a 10 and not a 20 I like having 10's on the table. Also the whole set could be used for cash for higher stakes and a different set used if there is a tourney on the same day.

.
iD7Hth7.png

artwork has been a bit touched up so the numbers are uniform and clear and spacing and were the mockups saved on this computer.
 

AnteAndy

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If you insist on using the same set for cash and tourney you may consider splitting your set into 2 divisions. Beware doing this results in large chip sets especially if you want sets that serve multiple tables for tournaments.

Most of the tourney's I play are t-1500-3000 and sometimes t-5000-10k with or without rebuys then after a certain number of players are out a cash game of $1/$2 or .25//50 or $2/$5 so what do you do......I like to issue 25/100 chips in sets of 8/8-12/12-16/16 or 20/20 chips then 500's and others depending on the starting stack size. So in a 2 table tourney players would often start with 2 stacks of 16, 25&100 value chips and in a 4 table tourney players would start with 8, 25&100 chips. One table you can obviously build chip mountains if desired or not.

This is what I do....
1- play a different set for cash than the tourney. Just picked up some of those Apache 36mm tourney chips and I can see using them a lot for this purpose
2- play your 25/100/500/1000/etc... chips in your tourney.........leave .25/$1/$5/$10 or $20 chips aside for cash game. Thus you use the same set but the chips are not mixed between tables.
This is why I advocate using a T100-Base for a tourney set instead of T25-Base. You can then use the 100/500/1000/5000 chips for tourneys and the $0.25/$1/$5/$25 for cash games. Plus I personally prefer $100-Base as it's easier to count pots/stacks, color up later than usually, & don't need as many physical chips compared to T25 or T5 base.
 

philhut

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This is why I advocate using a T100-Base for a tourney set instead of T25-Base. You can then use the 100/500/1000/5000 chips for tourneys and the $0.25/$1/$5/$25 for cash games. Plus I personally prefer $100-Base as it's easier to count pots/stacks, color up later than usually, & don't need as many physical chips compared to T25 or T5 base.

ok option 3 per above...... there are many ways to go about having a cash and tourney go on at the same time....the best thing to remember is Never Mix Active Tourney and Cash Chips at the same time! Ever or you'll be sorry at some point. If you are reissuing chips that were coloured up be sure you do a thorough count before changing them over to cash play.
 
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