China Clay Chips Comparison (1 Viewer)

philhut

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Ya only live once. No point in leaving your best set on the shelf for your uninformed relatives to garage sale after you pass on. Quality materials will last all of your games your whole life unless you run a full time room.

If you worry keep a 2nd set for sloppy beer and wing nights.....otherwise one of the ways to show your goods is to use them.
 

Silver_Fiend

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Ya only live once. No point in leaving your best set on the shelf for your uninformed relatives to garage sale after you pass on. Quality materials will last all of your games your whole life unless you run a full time room.

If you worry keep a 2nd set for sloppy beer and wing nights.....otherwise one of the ways to show your goods is to use them.
Hey! How else am I going to find great chips really cheap?!
 

Brushbroom

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I want the chips to be played with and not worry about the cost so much. Hence I am looking for a budget option.
I don't want to order people around and tell them to be careful around my new beautiful chips.
I most likely will look for a used CC set in the classifieds once I get to 10 messages to start my journey in the chip world and play with something better than dice chips and depending on feedback I may upgrade later.

Ideally I wouldn't want to go over 0,35€/chip including shipping for a first set, since I understand it won't be my last.
I have a bad habit of being unsatisfied and buying more and more of whatever I am into.
I had 12 mods and 47 atomisers when I was vaping, I have 23 different tennis rackets, so I guess I will end up with a lot of chips in the future, but baby steps at first :D
Man I’m in the same boat. I think my wife half way considered divorcing me when I told her I was looking at get a second set of chips. She knows, if I go all in...I’m in it to win it lol. Good luck man. Btw, I have a set of Venerati and they are a big upgrade from Diced chip. Most of my poker buddy commented on how nice they are plus I think they are 39 cents each. Also I bought them 8 years ago and they still look and feel great. But full disclosure, my next set (cash game set) I’m thinking will be CC lol.
 
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Maybe i'm missing something, but when people say china clay is that an all encompassing term that both includes branded retail sets that happens to be made in china as well as alibaba vendors who do their own stuff (knock off or otherwise)? Or is it just the latter?

I was under the impression that a lot of these sets being listed were made in the US by various companies. I could be wrong.

That aside, is there a thread where people show pics of the results from specific alibaba custom chip vendors so we could get an idea of who's worth dealing with?
 

BGinGA

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Maybe i'm missing something, but when people say china clay is that an all encompassing term that both includes branded retail sets that happens to be made in china as well as alibaba vendors who do their own stuff (knock off or otherwise)? Or is it just the latter?

I was under the impression that a lot of these sets being listed were made in the US by various companies. I could be wrong.

That aside, is there a thread where people show pics of the results from specific alibaba custom chip vendors so we could get an idea of who's worth dealing with?
The term 'china clay' refers to a specific material type used for a very small segment of the poker chips produced in China by just one or two companies. They are injection-molded plastic with silicate additives to produce a more 'chalk-like' and fragile consistency, and have a laminated label applied to a recessed center area.

Popular mold examples have included the spirit mold, greek key, scroll, Pharaoh's Club, Desert Palms, and Dunes Hotel, with Majestics (crown) and Bank (railroad) being more recent offerings.

The vast majority of chips produced in China are plastic/ABS and NOT china clay, and typically cost about one-half or less than similar CC chips.
 
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So when i see an alibaba vendor post pictures of clay dunes chips, for instance, is it likely that these are knock offs?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...offerlist.normal_offer.d_title.5f1376dfWOJ6J9

Are those one or two companies you referred to (who sell pharaohs/palms/dunes chips) american companies that brand chinese blanks? Is it public knowledge which vendors supply them?

And for that matter, is there a reason why nobody seems to disclose the name of the vendor in the group sale threads like this one for cards mold ceramics?:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/custom-artwork-group-buy-us-can-cards-mold.58260/
 

allforcharity

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Are they always? The ASMs I’ve run across always weigh in the 8.8g-9.2g range. Having removed the lead some years ago, I’ve seen a few Paulsons weigh in at 8.6g or so.

I should have said "generally" lighter in weight. Especially with the popularity of CPC's unweighted Dayglo and Retro colours.
 

CrazyEddie

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And for that matter, is there a reason why nobody seems to disclose the name of the vendor in the group sale threads like this one for cards mold ceramics?:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/custom-artwork-group-buy-us-can-cards-mold.58260/
I've asked that question myself and never been particularly satisfied with the answers I've gotten. Regardless, here is a thread with the question asked and answered: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/need-info-about-alibaba-cardmolds.69486/
 

Silver_Fiend

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So when i see an alibaba vendor post pictures of clay dunes chips, for instance, is it likely that these are knock offs?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...offerlist.normal_offer.d_title.5f1376dfWOJ6J9

Are those one or two companies you referred to (who sell pharaohs/palms/dunes chips) american companies that brand chinese blanks? Is it public knowledge which vendors supply them?

And for that matter, is there a reason why nobody seems to disclose the name of the vendor in the group sale threads like this one for cards mold ceramics?:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/custom-artwork-group-buy-us-can-cards-mold.58260/
Like everything on that website, its all fakes or unauthorized sales. The CCs have unique and specific design and spot patterns. Those were created and spec'ed by the American companies that import them. After that, its harder to track. Lots of these are Brybelly designs but they re-sell to other vendors for retail so you will find many companies selling the same chips. A few have commissioned their own designs and nobody else can sell those. But China is a cesspool of theft and the manufacturers have zero qualms about selling to anyone through sites like alibaba (which, if you werent aware means THIEF)
 

BGinGA

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So when i see an alibaba vendor post pictures of clay dunes chips, for instance, is it likely that these are knock offs?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...offerlist.normal_offer.d_title.5f1376dfWOJ6J9

Are those one or two companies you referred to (who sell pharaohs/palms/dunes chips) american companies that brand chinese blanks? Is it public knowledge which vendors supply them?
Most companies on alibaba selling chips are only resellers/distributors, and not the actual manufacturer. Nearly all use fake or stolen photos and will promise the world, but rarely -- if ever -- deliver what you actually think you are ordering. It's a buyer-beware war zone, with nearly everything produced either cheap plastics or low-grade ceramics.

There are only one or two companies actually making china clays, and I don't think either one is on alibaba.

There have been a several US-based companies who have commissioned and imported their own custom mold china clay chip designs -- Davinci Imports, Brybelly/Claysmith, Palm Imports (PGI), TheChipRoom, and Apache Poker Chips. Mr.Chip.EU in Europe also had custom CC chips made for resale on their web site. There have also been a few smaller efforts.

Eastony Industries manufactured the spirit mold chips for Davinci (and others), and Ningbo NBH manufactured the 'cup & biscuit' mold chips for MrChipEU, but none of the import companies listed above have ever publicly revealed their manufacturing source in China. Chinese manufacturing plants undergo frequent target market (and subsequent name) changes.

A couple of individuals have ordered semi-custom personalized CC sets (using the 'protected' mold designs of the companies above without their permission), and there was one large group buy on Chip Talk that was aborted when the manufacturer refused to make promised color corrections after custom molds were made and prototype chips produced.

Afaik, the only china clay chips currently being produced are those designs imported by Brybelly (Milano) and Apache (Dunes, Majestics, 43mm Royals, and The Bank mold blanks).
 

CrazyEddie

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A wealth of knowledge as always, Dave. There were a few things there I hadn't seen mentioned before.

Brybelly/Claysmith
Didn't know they were related!

'cup & biscuit' mold chips for MrChipEU
Had never heard of these! Interesting looking chips. That mold deboss is very clever! :)

(albeit not all that attractive IMHO, other than for novelty's sake)

there was one large group buy on Chip Talk that was aborted when the manufacturer refused to make promised color corrections after custom molds were made and prototype chips produced.
Interesting. Was this "Big League Games of Poker, original design and predecessor of the CPS chips" ?

Since we're on the topic, in your view, what distinguishes "china clays" from any other injection-molded non-slugged chip made in China? I feel like our terminology isn't pulling its weight but I'm not sure how to suggest better alternatives.
 

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Interesting, (WARNING, LONG TEXT)
First of all I am glad I didn't buy a single chip without getting samples.
Second of all, I would like to publicly thank @Coyote for the sample pack I was given.

The sample pack I received had everything in it. China clays, ceramics, Paulsons and CPCs.
First of all I was mistaken about ceramics. As it stands out, the casino I visited used custom plastic chips which may have been slugged.

i. China clays
These have no resemblance to clay chips They feel plastic and are plastic, but a huge upgrade from dice chips.
Between the Milanos and Majestics provided, I could say that the material is similar, but I found the Milanos to be way too slippery. Still aesthetically I prefer them over Majestics, but I feel the Majestics would be miles better in a game due to being less slippery.

ii. Ceramics
I received quite a few ceramics. Hotel Apes and Happy days casino, which I believe are chipco. Coyote gulch, which I don't know the producer and a single "no limit charity poker room" which I also have no knowledge about.
All in all it's not what I expected them to be, still not what I would prefer in a poker chip, but if the price is right I can see me buying a set.

iii. Paulson RHC
I received 4 new-near mint and 3 used chips and wow... I really hate the feel of the new ones!!!!! They feel rough, are sharp and seem way too fragile. On the other hand the used chips are more like what I would expect a chip would feel like, but still don't know if I can justify the price on them.

iv. CPC HHR mold
I can see the resemblance to Paulson, but I can also see the difference. These are also sharp and rough, but feel more sturdy than the Paulson chips. Major upside the customisation on these.

To you who read the whole post I have the greatest find of all time. China clay chips don't smell, or to be exact every kind of chip smells weird, but this smell is not strong. If you don't French kiss your chips you are good to go.

Sadly after handling these chips, I am no closer to deciding what kind of set I want to buy and feeling the chips I cannot justify spending 1$/chip with my current job, but at least I can see why you people are addicts.

Now some prOn.
 

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Poseidon

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Some more notes and questions before shipping the chips back to @Coyote.
I have shown the chips to 3 people having no knowledge of chip costs. My brother picked CPC as first choice and Majestics as a backup, one of my friends picked Milano as a first choice and CPC as a backup and the wife picked CPC first, dice chips second and Milano as a 3rd option.
Things are highly personal, but there was no love for Paulson or ceramics.
But if the price is right I could see myself buying some ceramics, so do you guys know who makes these chips in the photo?
 

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BGinGA

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The Happy Days and Hotel Apes chips were both produced on Chipco blanks. The Apes were made by ABC/BRPro, while the Happy Days chips are a mix of real casino chips produced by Chipco and later remakes produced by ABC using Chipco blanks. The original Chipco International company is no longer in business.
 

Chip1525

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The Happy Days and Hotel Apes chips were both produced on Chipco blanks. The Apes were made by ABC/BRPro, while the Happy Days chips are a mix of real casino chips produced by Chipco and later remakes produced by ABC using Chipco blanks. The original Chipco International company is no longer in business.
I haven't been a member for long, but am constantly amazed by how many borderline useless (in the real world) yet fully awesome (to chippers) facts you have squirreled away.

And you are happy to share it all with perfect strangers for nothing more than love of the hobby.

I raise my glass to you from the other side of the world.
 

Vice

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I have a large set of Tournament CC CPS chips and love them. I also have CC Pharaoh's for cash games and find both suit my needs well. My players couldn't give a rat's ass about the quality of my chips and don't know a CC from a Paulson. I have also owned Majestics but didn't like the dark labels. Once I cleaned and oiled the China Clays, smell was no longer an issue.

I believe the CC's feel like a used Paulson.

I am a single chip collector and have a many casino chips but don't know if I could lay down 2,000-10,000 dollars on a set and put them on the felt.
 

philhut

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I will try to get some more side by side comparisons later when the light is cooperating more. Its a fine sunny day out

I'll also put out some Milano (crazy horse, china clay), Nexgen Bee's and Protege Hold'em Chips. Working on it.

2fpwB5i.jpg

VSno0y6.jpg
 

TX_Golf_N_Poker

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Interesting, (WARNING, LONG TEXT)
First of all I am glad I didn't buy a single chip without getting samples.
Second of all, I would like to publicly thank @Coyote for the sample pack I was given.

The sample pack I received had everything in it. China clays, ceramics, Paulsons and CPCs.
First of all I was mistaken about ceramics. As it stands out, the casino I visited used custom plastic chips which may have been slugged.

i. China clays
These have no resemblance to clay chips They feel plastic and are plastic, but a huge upgrade from dice chips.
Between the Milanos and Majestics provided, I could say that the material is similar, but I found the Milanos to be way too slippery. Still aesthetically I prefer them over Majestics, but I feel the Majestics would be miles better in a game due to being less slippery.

ii. Ceramics
I received quite a few ceramics. Hotel Apes and Happy days casino, which I believe are chipco. Coyote gulch, which I don't know the producer and a single "no limit charity poker room" which I also have no knowledge about.
All in all it's not what I expected them to be, still not what I would prefer in a poker chip, but if the price is right I can see me buying a set.

iii. Paulson RHC
I received 4 new-near mint and 3 used chips and wow... I really hate the feel of the new ones!!!!! They feel rough, are sharp and seem way too fragile. On the other hand the used chips are more like what I would expect a chip would feel like, but still don't know if I can justify the price on them.

iv. CPC HHR mold
I can see the resemblance to Paulson, but I can also see the difference. These are also sharp and rough, but feel more sturdy than the Paulson chips. Major upside the customisation on these.

To you who read the whole post I have the greatest find of all time. China clay chips don't smell, or to be exact every kind of chip smells weird, but this smell is not strong. If you don't French kiss your chips you are good to go.

Sadly after handling these chips, I am no closer to deciding what kind of set I want to buy and feeling the chips I cannot justify spending 1$/chip with my current job, but at least I can see why you people are addicts.

Now some prOn.
First off - Thanks for starting this thread. I'm a big fan of China clay chips, so not sure why I just found this. Lots of great information in here, and of course, we get @BGinGA sharing his extensive knowledge! Thanks Dave!

Given your expectations regarding usage and cost, and your observations of the samples you have handled, there is really just one big piece missing from your evaluation. It doesn't sound like you have handled cards mold ceramics yet. They have been mentioned several times, but what I want to stress is that they are enough like China clay chips, and enough different from most other ceramics, that you will probably like them. I know there was a Euro GB that took place last year, so you should be able to find someone willing to let you sample a few of theirs.

Let me describe my opinion of Cards mold ceramics. Sun-Fly calls their cards mold blanks Polyclay. This is because these chips were definitely intended to look and feel like "real" compressed clay chips. How well they accomplished that is a matter of personal opinion. Some people hate them, while a whole lot of us here love them. Before I handled them, I did NOT like most other ceramic chips. But I love cards mold. Depending on the design printed on them, they can look VERY MUCH like real clay casino chips. The sound and feel will never be mistaken for real clay, but it's no worse than China clay.

So I hope you will get the chance to handle a few before you make a final decision. The biggest downside of these chips? Depending on when the next GB is available, how long it takes you to get a design together, and which of a couple different vendors you go with, these can take a VERY long time to be made and shipped.
 

philhut

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here are some side by side's with Milano Crazy Horse Chips to Cards Mold chips from one of the most recent group buys....I'm not sure the specific manufacturer but it was not "Tina" mentioned in other posts, it was the "other" one.


h1oVpkZ.jpg

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Az7KAaM.jpg

17k2aJJ.jpg

V5w0pqa.jpg

height variance of 50c and $50 from 2015 batch and the rest 2017 production.
oJL7ehc.jpg

eqyloGx.jpg

ErTgIw9.jpg

what the inside's look like on a broken cards mold chip, I have no idea what is inside a Milano feel free to google.
isgwUOy.jpg

ToAEHBK.jpg

5KDvhBa.jpg

yvqJ0rp.jpg

PxwJlNA.jpg
 

jvspin

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Here is a quick comparison of an unused Paulson Avalon Club from Apache poker sample set, an unused yellow spirit mold and an unused black Greek mold.
To my ear, sound is slightly deeper on china clay when chips are stacked. These china clays are not slick. Color goes through the chip.
Paulson Avalon: 39mm x 3.2mm, 9.82g
Yellow Spirit: 39..8mm x 3.4mm, 9.56g
Black Greek: 39.7mm x 3.4mm, 9.50g

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TX_Golf_N_Poker

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Here is a quick comparison of an unused Paulson Avalon Club from Apache poker sample set, an unused yellow spirit mold and an unused black Greek mold.
To my ear, sound is slightly deeper on china clay when chips are stacked. These china clays are not slick. Color goes through the chip.
Paulson Avalon: 39mm x 3.2mm, 9.82g
Yellow Spirit: 39..8mm x 3.4mm, 9.56g
Black Greek: 39.7mm x 3.4mm, 9.50g

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Great post! Thanks for the pics. To me, the Spirit mold is the china clay that comes the closest to real compressed clay chip. They have a wide, flat edge and are reasonably sharp. Sharper than any other CC I've ever handled. I also believe that Key mold chip may be related to the Spirit mold. Some of them look virtually identical in color and edge spots to some Spirit mold chips, so I've always suspected they came from the same manufacturer. But I'm only guessing.

The down side of Spirit mold is that certain colors seem to be not at all durable. They chip, break, and get flea bites. Some even crumble to dust over time. And the better, more durable ones are very hard to find. People who have playable sets seem to want to hang on to them. I tried to find enough to put together a set when I first joined here and determined how much I liked them. I came real close to pulling the trigger on one full set, but couldn't get past the fact that one complete denomination (on green chips) was riddled with pretty bad flea bites. I regret it now, but I passed on buying that set.
 

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The down side of Spirit mold is that certain colors seem to be not at all durable.
Perhaps so. I haven't played with the Spirits. I've been using the Greek (the Bay Area site called them Roman) for about seven years and they show little to no wear. Though I've probably used them less than 100 times in those seven years.
PXL_20210925_033651260.jpg

PXL_20210925_034054299.jpg

The edges aren't as sharp as the Paulson's but they don't look beveled or rounded to me.
 

TX_Golf_N_Poker

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This is what happens to the greens if they get played with a lot. And why I didn't buy this set.

da Vinci green.jpeg
 
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