China Clay Chips Comparison

Jake14mw

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A lot of good advice here. I am just a little ways into the journey here. I won't repeat too much of what others have said, but:

1) Stick to a budget you are comfortable with
2) Get samples. Looking at pictures, Majestics were my clear favorites, but after handling them, I didn't like them. Too slick, and edges were more rounded I liked.
3) Beware that all samples are not the same? The Dunes sample set I have do NOT have the distinct beveled edge of the ones that birdcage posted. My Milanos had the squarest edges and felt the most like Paulsons to me. Other people reported THEIR Majestics were not slick?
4) Are you sensitive to smells? If not, disregard all the smell talk. Again, samples should answer that for you.
5) I keep seeing people say that you will lose a lot of money when you sell your CC set, yet I always see people selling them in the Classifieds for only a slight discount from new.
6) If there is no CC sample that impresses you, get exactly the look you want by ordering the Cards mold chips that you want in a Group buy, like so many other people have already linked, https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...ramics-master-consolidated-info-thread.65544/
7) Click the link in #6. Get what you want at the same price or less than CCs.
 

Zr1

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Not a fan of majestics. I found them way to slick. Agree on your observation about cc Clay for sale. A few months ago there was actually 1000 used chips selling for more than you could buy new See them here for .35. Apache is .42 for cc dunes, pharaoh etc. buying 500 or 1000 I’d rather buy brand new for the extra $35-$70.
 

Jake14mw

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Another great CC thread. I'm one year plus down the road as a PCF member and I've followed the chip continuum fairly religiously, going from dice chips to china clays to Paulson varieties with an occasional ceramics dalliance. I own six complete Paulson sets at this moment.

Being able to compartmentalize, I still love china clays, for what they are - inexpensive, durable and beautiful - plus every poker player that handles them loves them (so far anyway). For some additional information and spirited debate, see this CC thread.

So, any sage advice after a year with PCF? Absolutely! If price is no object, and we've all seen those members, then buy what you want, as much as you want and when you want it! Otherwise, by budget...

50¢ per chip or less - china clay
50¢ to $1 per chip - china clays w/custom labels or ceramics or GPI promo chips (Elite, Monaco, PCF, Shuffle Master, etc.)
$1 per chip - casino used or new Paulsons (watch PCF classifieds and vendor sales, @Gear labels for inexpensive fracs)
$1+ per chip - the world is your oyster

Notes:
1) Used CC's are an incredible value and likely may be resold in the future at no loss.
2) $1 per chip Paulson cash set is absolutely possible with a little effort, patience and re-labeling (if you desire fracs in the set).

Pic #1 below shows the beauty of my favorite CC set - Dunes $40 starting stack
Pic #2 below shows a $1 per chip (average) 400-chip Paulson set - it took time, horse-trading & relabeling to meet that budget
Pic #3 & Pic #4 below compares new CC to casino used Paulson - very similar in appearance

View attachment 642051

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View attachment 642059
Another great CC thread. I'm one year plus down the road as a PCF member and I've followed the chip continuum fairly religiously, going from dice chips to china clays to Paulson varieties with an occasional ceramics dalliance. I own six complete Paulson sets at this moment.

Being able to compartmentalize, I still love china clays, for what they are - inexpensive, durable and beautiful - plus every poker player that handles them loves them (so far anyway). For some additional information and spirited debate, see this CC thread.

So, any sage advice after a year with PCF? Absolutely! If price is no object, and we've all seen those members, then buy what you want, as much as you want and when you want it! Otherwise, by budget...

50¢ per chip or less - china clay
50¢ to $1 per chip - china clays w/custom labels or ceramics or GPI promo chips (Elite, Monaco, PCF, Shuffle Master, etc.)
$1 per chip - casino used or new Paulsons (watch PCF classifieds and vendor sales, @Gear labels for inexpensive fracs)
$1+ per chip - the world is your oyster

Notes:
1) Used CC's are an incredible value and likely may be resold in the future at no loss.
2) $1 per chip Paulson cash set is absolutely possible with a little effort, patience and re-labeling (if you desire fracs in the set).

Pic #1 below shows the beauty of my favorite CC set - Dunes $40 starting stack
Pic #2 below shows a $1 per chip (average) 400-chip Paulson set - it took time, horse-trading & relabeling to meet that budget
Pic #3 & Pic #4 below compares new CC to casino used Paulson - very similar in appearance

View attachment 642051

View attachment 642052

View attachment 642058

View attachment 642059
Are there different manufacturers of CCs? Mine are definitely different than your Dunes. Mine are more square edged and say Commemorative at the top.
IMG_20210224_095639476_HDR.jpg
 

Kid_Eastwood

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There are several versions of Dunes :

1) The real thing
2) The "NexGen" (plastic) style "Commemorative"
3) The first edition of China Clay "Commemorative" sold by TheChipRoom -- I'm looking few of these. See here.
4) The second edition of China Clay sold by Apache
 

BirdCage

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There are several versions of Dunes :

1) The real thing
2) The "NexGen" (plastic) style "Commemorative"
3) The first edition of China Clay "Commemorative" sold by TheChipRoom
4) The second edition of China Clay sold by Apache
Precisely. For new PCFers seeking CC Dunes, the second edition is recommend as some PCF threads reveal durability questions related to the first edition CC Dunes. The second edition CC Dunes do not have "commemorative" on their labels.

In general, the more recent versions of CC's across all styles seem more durable if you review enough older CC threads.
 

Kid_Eastwood

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I don't think the first edition of Dunes CC had durability issues...

At least I've not seen.
 

BirdCage

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I’m actually of the mind that all the chip styles that we discuss are quite durable for their intended purpose. However, threads like this one lead me to lean toward newer CC’s, when available.
 

Jake14mw

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Precisely. For new PCFers seeking CC Dunes, the second edition is recommend as some PCF threads reveal durability questions related to the first edition CC Dunes. The second edition CC Dunes do not have "commemorative" on their labels.

In general, the more recent versions of CC's across all styles seem more durable if you review enough older CC threads.
I guess it depends on what you like. For me, I think I would rather deal with an occasional broken chip than the beveled edges, but that is just my preference, and I don't know how much of an issue the durability really is with the old ones!
 

CrazyEddie

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"China Clays" is a pretty terrible term; it's not very useful as a category although we use it a lot here on PCF. It encompasses many different chip sets that were produced in different ways at different times by different people using different materials. They have little in common other than being injection molded, unslugged, and in the eight to eleven gram range. Some smell, some don't. Some are plastic-y, some aren't. Some are durable, some aren't. Etc.

But I guess for the time being we're stuck with the term.
 

Poseidon

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I have read a lot of answers and have even more questions now.
First of all from what I understand, I need to get samples of all the China Clay chipsets, cause every set feels different? I thought I would be fine with one sample set for the feel and then pick from the pictures.
Secondly, what is the difference with ceramics like Tikis and the groupbuy ones? Why do the GB have molds, and is it inlays like the ascona set or printed to look like inlays and can go Nevada Jack style with them?
Thirdly I want a nice affordable set to play the game, so not looking to invest and resell chips. So if the best price to quality ratio is Milanos then that's what I am planning to get.
I hope I don't contract the Chip-Collecting-Virus in the future.

On another note, how do you feel having expensive chips being handled by people who are fine with dice chips and have no appreciation of the price of the set?
Also when the game runs at 300-400€ bank, is it overkill if the chipset costs more than the game plays?
 

Kid_Eastwood

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1) They are not exactly the same but overall, in my opinion, they are more or less similar in terms of feel. I had several series (Dunes CC v2, Majestics and CPS). I could still say that I prefered the CPS but they are all quite close in my opinion.
2) Tiki Kings are plain ceramics where the GB ones have a mold and a physically delimited centered area. Tiki Kings are produced by @ABC Gifts and Awards and are superior to the ceramics from the GB (I've NJ Skulls to compare to the GB ones). Same for @SUN-FLY Poker Chips ones, their PolyClay (also with a mold and a delimited centered area) or PolyChrom (plain ceramics) are superior to the GB ones (again, I could compare both). Price is not the same tough. Personally, I think that the extra cost of the ABC and SF ones is justified. Ascona are @SUN-FLY Poker Chips 's hybrids (PolyChrom). They are ceramics with a recessed area taking a laminated labels. These hybrids are the nicest ceramic chips I've used (again, it's my personal preference, don't take it as a given). They feel totally different from the other ones.

I did a small review of the GB cards mold chips here. Other ceramics pictures (SF hybrids, SF PolyClays and Nevada Jacks) are available in my gallery or signature (links to pr0n).

For the last note, people used to dice chips are always pleased at the first game they can use better quality equipment. I only got appreciation from people used to low end chips the first time they play at my home.

The whole thing of home game is to have fun and handling quality equipment adds fun (in my opinion). The stakes are not very relevant in the choice of the equipment in my opinion. On the opposite side, I'd not be surprised to see higher stakes games (NL100+) being played with low end chips.
 
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BirdCage

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1) They are not exactly the same but overall, in my opinion, they are more or less similar in terms of feel. I had several series (Dunes CC v2, Majestics and CPS). I could still say that I preferred the CPS but they are all quite close in my opinion.
Totally agree. It's more nuance than significant shift between styles plus you have to factor in personal preference for edge sharpness, label color/design, color hues, edge-spot preference, etc. For extreme value-seekers, used Milanos at 25¢ a piece, would be highly recommended, IMHO.

China Clay cash set options.jpg
 

CrazyEddie

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First of all from what I understand, I need to get samples of all the China Clay chipsets, cause every set feels different? I thought I would be fine with one sample set for the feel and then pick from the pictures.
I was overstating things somewhat in my last post. The china clays available today at retailers such as Apache are all pretty similar, as @Kid_Eastwood and @BirdCage said. I believe that all of these (Royals, Majestics, Milanos, the most recent Dunes, and the very recent Bank) were commissioned by Apache. There are some differences between them, but they're much more alike than, for example, CCs vs ceramics vs clays.

They are, however, pretty different from the older china clays that you can sometimes find being sold in the PCF classifieds. Examples include Pyramid Casino on the spirit mold, Championship Poker Series on the tower and spear mold, ProGen 80 on a greek key mold, and the PGI greek key mold. All of those feel different from each other and feel different from the current Apache offerings. But even so, the differences between all of them are smaller than the differences between any of them and any ceramic or clay.

At some point, the differences between any two chips are only going to be relevant to a collector or connoisseur. If you just want a nice set of chips for your game without spending too much money on it, it's really enough to know the difference between metal slugged plastics, china clays, ceramics, casino plastics, and casino clays. That'll set your expectations for what you can get at different price points, but understand that there's a fair amount of variation within each of those categories. The amount of time and money you spend obtaining samples is really dependent on how much you plan to invest in a set and how deeply you care about the fine distinctions.
 

philhut

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I would also suggest buying your whole set in one go, avoiding add-ons later in your plans. With China-Clay, made chips the batch variances and quality variances may result in vastly different appearance and texture of chips.

It's a shame to order those 5k's or 100's you didnt before only to get slippery off coloured representations of the great set you had before.

Really that rule applies to a lot of products you like when bought out of China. if not bought now the product may be canceled or changes in manfacturing may make it very different/unavailable.
 
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upNdown

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For the last note, people used to dice chips are always pleased at the first game they can use better quality equipment.
Ha
This is absolutely not true, in my experience. Your average person couldn’t give a flying poop if you’re using ten cent sluggos or ten dollar Paulsons. And if they’re used to using the same color scene dice chips for a while, they might actually be annoyed with differently colored premium chips.
People will generally appreciate clearly denominated chips. And colorblind people will appreciate chips they can easily distinguish from one another. That’s it.
DON’T BUY EXPENSIVE CHIPS TO IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY WON’T CARE.
 

Kid_Eastwood

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Indeed it's not a good Idea to try to impress with nice chips.

What I wanted to Say is that the people not used to high end chips Can still be pleased with a chip nicer than a dice chip.

Also in Line with you that clearly denominated chips and non dirty stacks is the most important thing.
 

ekricket

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I have read a lot of answers and have even more questions now.
First of all from what I understand, I need to get samples of all the China Clay chipsets, cause every set feels different? I thought I would be fine with one sample set for the feel and then pick from the pictures.
Secondly, what is the difference with ceramics like Tikis and the groupbuy ones? Why do the GB have molds, and is it inlays like the ascona set or printed to look like inlays and can go Nevada Jack style with them?
Thirdly I want a nice affordable set to play the game, so not looking to invest and resell chips. So if the best price to quality ratio is Milanos then that's what I am planning to get.
I hope I don't contract the Chip-Collecting-Virus in the future.

On another note, how do you feel having expensive chips being handled by people who are fine with dice chips and have no appreciation of the price of the set?
Also when the game runs at 300-400€ bank, is it overkill if the chipset costs more than the game plays?
Buy chips and play cards and don’t think about the cost anymore.

race car drivers buy good cars
Swimmers buy speedos
Basketball players buy shoes
Baseball players buy gloves
Golf players aaaaaaghhhh

you think these guys buy the cheapest stuff possible for their sport and all the time they are playing all they think about is the wear on their glove or how much their hockey stick cost?

when someone comes into my home and plays with my stuff they know we mean business, so it’s a better atmosphere

Everclear will get you drunk, so why buy craft beer that you are just going to piss out later?
 

upNdown

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I have read a lot of answers and have even more questions now.
First of all from what I understand, I need to get samples of all the China Clay chipsets, cause every set feels different? I thought I would be fine with one sample set for the feel and then pick from the pictures.
Secondly, what is the difference with ceramics like Tikis and the groupbuy ones? Why do the GB have molds, and is it inlays like the ascona set or printed to look like inlays and can go Nevada Jack style with them?
Thirdly I want a nice affordable set to play the game, so not looking to invest and resell chips. So if the best price to quality ratio is Milanos then that's what I am planning to get.
I hope I don't contract the Chip-Collecting-Virus in the future.

On another note, how do you feel having expensive chips being handled by people who are fine with dice chips and have no appreciation of the price of the set?
Also when the game runs at 300-400€ bank, is it overkill if the chipset costs more than the game plays?

1. Yeah, if you’re paying attention, you’ve read that there are a lot of differences between China clays. I wouldn’t buy a full set without having handled the samples. But I’m picky. Buy sight unseen if you want.

2. There is a quality difference between ceramics like Tikis and the group buy ones. The Tikis are made on a better slug. Is it worth paying more than twice as much for the Tikis? Maybe not. But those group buy chips are made in China with all the human rights issues, not to mention piracy of intellectual property that goes along with it. You can decide for yourself.
Those group buy ceramics do have a card mold. It’s the first ceramic chip with a mold that I’ve ever seen. But it’s pretty cool. But no label/inlays. If you’ve seen group buy card mold ceramics that look like they have an inlay, that’s just clever graphics.

3. I haven’t handled a lot of China clays, but I have handled milanos and I think they’re crap. Just my opinion, but if they’re the best price to quality China clays, I just wouldn’t buy China clays. And if price is your biggest concern, take a look at the cheap group buy ceramics. They’re better than Milanos.

4. I don’t care if dice chip lovers play with my expensive Paulsons. I hope they’ll appreciate the quality difference, but whatever. And I don’t worry about them damaging my chips. Poker chips are meant to be played with, and Paulsons are fairly durable.

5. Is it overkill if the chipset costs more than the game plays? Probably. But most of us around here do exactly that. And it really isn’t insane. As far as we know, casinos are typically paying something like $1.25 apiece for their Paulsons. And they all have dollar chips and some of them have fifty cent chips or quarter chips. So casinos have chips that cost more than face value, too. I don’t care that my quarters cost me about 3 bucks apiece and my dollars cost me almost six bucks apiece. They’re worth it to me because they’re the chips I want. And, for whatever it’s worth, I’m pretty sure I could sell them today, in about 5 minutes, for exactly what I paid.
 

upNdown

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How do CCpC clays compare to Paulson? They are slightly lower in price, and available. Sort of like the A mold. Any feedback on CPC would be appreciated.Thanks
ha ha ha ha hee hee ha ha ha
Sorry, but that really depends. Stock CPCs, perhaps. But you get into complicated edge spots, and shaped inlays, and you can see the per chip costs start to skyrocket.

CPC clays are not the same as Paulsons. They are lighter in weight. Their colour palette is smaller and generally darker. But they are also available with many different types of molds, and lots of possible patterns, and some different sizes too. And they are legit excellent chips. There are innumerable threads in the Custom Chips section showing off members' CPC sets.
I agree with everything that @allforcharity said here, but I think the weight issue is worth discussing, because I think it’s overblown.
Just weighing the 15 RHC Horseshoe SI sample set chips I have, the average weight is 9.16g
Weighing ten random CPC chips I have laying around, the average weight is 8.5g. And there are some Paulsons that are under 8g and some CPCs that are over 9g. So yeah, generally speaking, CPCs ARE lighter than Paulsons, but only by about half a gram.
Personally, a half-gram difference would be pretty far down on my list of considerations.
 

Chip1525

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No other China clay set is worth a 60-80% premium over Milanos in my opinion (based on the pricing you gave).

The only reason would be subjective - eg, you find Milanos uninspiring and really love the aesthetics of another set.

However, you say you prefer the aesthetics of Milanos. Between that and the much lower price, sounds like a clear winner.

However note that a number of members are recommending ceramics for a reason. So even though you intially ruled them out, it may be worthwhile for you to order samples and give them another shot.

Once you have both Milanos and ceramics in hand, if you still prefer Milanos, then your decision is clear.
 

Coyote

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Milanos are pretty faded colour-wise in person, and do stink awfully, in my personal experience.
Furthermore, they have NOT been commissioned by Apache, to my knowledge, which makes a huge difference.
I would only buy CCs offered by Apache.

I don't like ceramics in general, but I could happily live with clay-ish ceramics (in apperance), if the price is right.
 

Chip1525

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On another note, how do you feel having expensive chips being handled by people who are fine with dice chips and have no appreciation of the price of the set?
There is probably a spectrum of opinions here.

On one end, serious collectors aren't letting dice people touch their nice chips with their greasy mitts.

I am probably more on the other end. Chips are meant to be played with, not cellared for posterity.

Obviously on a dedicated poker chip forum, people's standards are going to be higher than the general public, but for the sweaty masses, China clays and ceramics occupy a nice middle ground of investment vs utility value, where they are nice enough to impress dice people, but not so delicate that you need to handle with manicured, white gloved hands.

Based on your posts it sounds like you are a poker player first, and chip enthusiast second.

So if you ever find you aren't able to enjoy the poker and the company because you are worried about the condition of your chips, I would suggest they aren't the right chips for you and you need to find a different set to play with.
 

Coyote

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There is probably a spectrum of opinions here.

On one end, serious collectors aren't letting dice people touch their nice chips with their greasy mitts.

I am probably more on the other end. Chips are meant to be played with, not cellared for posterity.

Obviously on a dedicated poker chip forum, people's standards are going to be higher than the general public, but for the sweaty masses, China clays and ceramics occupy a nice middle ground of investment vs utility value, where they are nice enough to impress dice people, but not so delicate that you need to handle with manicured, white gloved hands.

Based on your posts it sounds like you are a poker player first, and chip enthusiast second.

So if you ever find you aren't able to enjoy the poker and the company because you are worried about the condition of your chips, I would suggest they aren't the right chips for you and you need to find a different set to play with.
People worrying about their chips and still wanting something beautiful should resort to high-end plastics, but again, price-wise, they 'd get into American casino-clay territory.

Ceramics are supposed to be more durable than CCs, but any eventual dent would reveal the white "ceramic" (good plastic) substance beneath the printed surface, while CCs carry their colors to their "bones".

Last but not least, playing with chips costing a lot more than face value is what this forum is all about.:)
 

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Last but not least, playing with chips costing a lot more than face value is what this forum is all about.:)
Agree, it's a bit of a false economy because poker chips aren't really about storing monetary value (costs more than a penny to make a penny) so much as providing utility/entertainment value in enabling poker games over the life of the chip.

That, and all the pr0n.
 

Poseidon

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I want the chips to be played with and not worry about the cost so much. Hence I am looking for a budget option.
I don't want to order people around and tell them to be careful around my new beautiful chips.
I most likely will look for a used CC set in the classifieds once I get to 10 messages to start my journey in the chip world and play with something better than dice chips and depending on feedback I may upgrade later.

Ideally I wouldn't want to go over 0,35€/chip including shipping for a first set, since I understand it won't be my last.
I have a bad habit of being unsatisfied and buying more and more of whatever I am into.
I had 12 mods and 47 atomisers when I was vaping, I have 23 different tennis rackets, so I guess I will end up with a lot of chips in the future, but baby steps at first :D
 

Coyote

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I want the chips to be played with and not worry about the cost so much. Hence I am looking for a budget option.
I don't want to order people around and tell them to be careful around my new beautiful chips.
I most likely will look for a used CC set in the classifieds once I get to 10 messages to start my journey in the chip world and play with something better than dice chips and depending on feedback I may upgrade later.

Ideally I wouldn't want to go over 0,35€/chip including shipping for a first set, since I understand it won't be my last.
I have a bad habit of being unsatisfied and buying more and more of whatever I am into.
I had 12 mods and 47 atomisers when I was vaping, I have 23 different tennis rackets, so I guess I will end up with a lot of chips in the future, but baby steps at first :D
@Windwalker :LOL: :laugh:
 
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