Big time +1, I am not a profitable poker player, but for me it is an fun social experience made MUCH better by having nice chips and cards to play with.
Ceramic vs. China Clays (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Vintage1974
- Start date
Big time +1, I am not a profitable poker player, but for me it is an fun social experience made MUCH better by having nice chips and cards to play with.
tabletalker7
Full House
OK first off let me warn you about something here. PCF when it was first brought into existence was about all the various aspects of poker. Now it seems dominated by people who not only will tell you to "only buy Paulson chips they never lose their value", but at the same time are also selling those very same chips they are telling you to buy for a price they say they are worth because "only buy Paulson chips they never lose value". All I am going to tell you is to get samples of EVERYTHING and make up your own mind. Samples are cheap, and the extra time spent doing your homework will be well worth it. For a factory worker like me who doesn't have tons of disposable income to waste, I wanted to make one big chip purchase and be happy with what I ended up with. I looked at china clays and I looked at ceramics. I got samples of sets I thought I would like. I met a guy on this site (and played cards at his house - and it was fun) who was part of a china clay group buy here at PCF. He also got custom labels for his chips so he would be happy with his purchase. I wasn't turned off by them, but they did nothing for me at all. Then my Valentino samples came in from Gene and Kristi at bropropoker.com. I was THRILLED with the product, but I was also concerned with durability. I decided to test durability by duct taping a china clay chip, a ceramic chip, and a slugged chip to the floor in a bay in my buddy mechanic's shop so all three would get run over by cars several times a day for two weeks straight. The slugged chip and the china clay broke. The ceramic chip just needed filth wiped off it and it was good as new! Don't worry about durability. They will be just fine. Get samples, and if ceramics are good for you, then buy them! I just placed an order at brporpoker for 1200 semi-custom Valentinos. I know I will be happy with them, and resale value is meaningless when you have no intention of ever selling them. They will ALWAYS BE MINE.
On an side note, I want everyone to look at this whole forum posting here and yourselfs "what happened to PCF?" This site used to be about the poker (and to a lesser extent, the hot dog rollers) but now the forums new posts have more for sale than Craigslist does and everyone is getting butt-hurt about everything. What happened to us as a group? When did we buy poker chips because we can use them and then resell them? I thought you bought poker chips to play a fun game with a group of good people and enjoy life. All this guy wanted was to get questions about durability answered and he gets all this garbage. For shame.
Sluggers have their place, too. I only host a few tourneys a year, so I didn't want to wrap up much in my tourney set. I got a set of sluggers I like a lot, they feel good, look good, and aren't overly slippery. I can spread a 2-table tourney, and it only cost me $100.
Beaniman
Two Pair
Im working on a set of ceramic DDLM from brpro, but initially upgraded to Outlaw (slug chips and I'm ok with that) from the dice chips ive had for a decade. Lots of good advice here, there are many teirs of cost/value/preferance.
My players and I all love the Outlaw chips and see them as a huge upgrade over the dice chips. And they are cheap. 99$ shipped from amazon for a pretty decent setup of 500 chips that I use for a cash game set and it supports my 16 player tournament structure with 2 rebuys per player (8 seat octagonal tables).
Im sure the DDLM ceramics will be a huge upgrade over those once I finalize the order specifics and get them delivered but they will cost 3x as much as the outlaws but still a bare fraction of what some of the paulsons will go for. Samples samples samples, best advice on the forums IMO. Some players prefer the slugged outlaws to the ceramics I do have, so you gata make your own decision.
Everyone else's personal opinion is about as useful as the answer to 'what's the best kind of car to get, ford, chevy or dodge'? There's no one answer or we would only have one type of car on the road.
EDIT: that statement about peoples opinions should not be construed as I don't think they are valid or have value, I want to hear opinions and thoughts, but they are each seasoned by individual perspective/bias/experience/budget and a host of other factors.
My players and I all love the Outlaw chips and see them as a huge upgrade over the dice chips. And they are cheap. 99$ shipped from amazon for a pretty decent setup of 500 chips that I use for a cash game set and it supports my 16 player tournament structure with 2 rebuys per player (8 seat octagonal tables).
Im sure the DDLM ceramics will be a huge upgrade over those once I finalize the order specifics and get them delivered but they will cost 3x as much as the outlaws but still a bare fraction of what some of the paulsons will go for. Samples samples samples, best advice on the forums IMO. Some players prefer the slugged outlaws to the ceramics I do have, so you gata make your own decision.
Everyone else's personal opinion is about as useful as the answer to 'what's the best kind of car to get, ford, chevy or dodge'? There's no one answer or we would only have one type of car on the road.
EDIT: that statement about peoples opinions should not be construed as I don't think they are valid or have value, I want to hear opinions and thoughts, but they are each seasoned by individual perspective/bias/experience/budget and a host of other factors.
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OP
OP
Vintage1974
Pair
@tabletalker7 Great post! I don’t have any intention of selling my chips. Just looking for opinions and feedback (such as yours) from the forum in order to make a decision that’s good for me after I’ve compared/contrasted samples.
AC
AC
This thread cracks me up. I would say I'm extremely biased, but my answer is:
Get samples. If you want to buy chips, don't worry about anyone else's opinion - get the ones you like the best within your budget.
Do I think you should buy chips you don't like, because other people like them? No.
Do I think you should buy chips (or anything else for that matter) that you can't afford? No.
Does that mean I'm telling some people to go buy from other vendors? Absolutely.
Why in the world would I want to sell chips to someone if they would be happier with a different product? I've been to a PCF meetup, and seen the joy that people get over their chips - it's awesome! Doesn't matter to me if that joy isn't from a product we make...it's just very cool to see.
Here's a link with quite a few of our sample sets, in case you're interested!
Poker Chip Samples
Thanks,
Gene
Get samples. If you want to buy chips, don't worry about anyone else's opinion - get the ones you like the best within your budget.
Do I think you should buy chips you don't like, because other people like them? No.
Do I think you should buy chips (or anything else for that matter) that you can't afford? No.
Does that mean I'm telling some people to go buy from other vendors? Absolutely.
Why in the world would I want to sell chips to someone if they would be happier with a different product? I've been to a PCF meetup, and seen the joy that people get over their chips - it's awesome! Doesn't matter to me if that joy isn't from a product we make...it's just very cool to see. Here's a link with quite a few of our sample sets, in case you're interested!
Poker Chip Samples
Thanks,
Gene
It's pretty funny that people are running over chips to test their durability lol. I must be playing poker the wrong way. My thoughts on this is nice ceramics > China clays. The only China clays I'd consider buying over some nice ABC ceramics are the 43mm Royals and I would buy them as blanks and get some sweet labels from ABC to have a semi custom set. The issue is that China clays do kind of smell and for this reason I don't even like having them on my felt, but they are fun chips and the quality/colors are pretty solid for what you're paying. One of ABC's stock designs with semi-custom denoms can hold you game over for life as long as you don't care about rotating chip sets. Most of the forum will give you their two cents and then tell you why Paulson is the better choice, and for some it just won't be an option because they typically cost an assload of money and not everyone can stretch for them. Buy what you are comfortable spending and get samples. Buy enough samples to at least have a shuffle stack too. ABC's ceramics will last you forever unless you're running an underground casino
Now that I have a better understanding of what "ceramic" means, I think we all need to stop using the term "ceramic" ... There's such a massive difference in look/feel/sound between say ABC's blanks and Sunfly's Polyinno chips. Not a "bad" difference mind you - but they are just so different.
It was my inexperience that lead me to believe that the Polyinno's didn't fall into the ceramic category. Now that I know better, I think that CC's fit somewhere in between "ceramic" and "other ceramic". ABC's Nevada Jacks were my first ceramic and since then I've felt some Chipco knockoffs, DDM, and finally the Polyinno's.
I have to say that it all kind of depends on what you're going for. CC's have that plasticky softness. NJ's have a rougher texture and a good clink. Polyinno, IMO, have a wonderful sound, but get very slick very fast. However their dye sub process is amazing and looks wonderful.
Then there's DDM ... my set is just so pretty to look at, my wife says she should have been born a poker chip so I'd stare at her more. I don't care how they feel/sound - such a creative change in the artwork... They could have poison stingers all over them and I'd still want em.
... There's such a massive difference in look/feel/sound between say ABC's blanks and Sunfly's Polyinno chips. Not a "bad" difference mind you - but they are just so different.It was my inexperience that lead me to believe that the Polyinno's didn't fall into the ceramic category. Now that I know better, I think that CC's fit somewhere in between "ceramic" and "other ceramic". ABC's Nevada Jacks were my first ceramic and since then I've felt some Chipco knockoffs, DDM, and finally the Polyinno's.
I have to say that it all kind of depends on what you're going for. CC's have that plasticky softness. NJ's have a rougher texture and a good clink. Polyinno, IMO, have a wonderful sound, but get very slick very fast. However their dye sub process is amazing and looks wonderful.
Then there's DDM ... my set is just so pretty to look at, my wife says she should have been born a poker chip so I'd stare at her more. I don't care how they feel/sound - such a creative change in the artwork... They could have poison stingers all over them and I'd still want em.
It can be confusing. You have plastic chips. And you have ceramic chips, which are made of plastic. And you have china clays which are mostly plastic, combined with nobody knows what. And you have clays, which are made of clays and plastic. So if you want to get real honest,, you could call everything plastic.
Yes, everything is plastic. Let everybody get their heads around that first.
BirdCage
Flush
I was thinking that perhaps PCF needs to do a group buy for a materials testing lab?! We could send one sample chip for each type of chip to the lab and then know for real what's in what. There are many testing labs available with lots of info, like this one --> https://www.intertek.com/polymers/testing/analytical/
It would be pretty cool to post up as a forum resource.
Chip types, 2020 definitions:
To correlate with previous terms:
- compression-molded
- injection-molded
- plain
- hot-stamped
- screen printed (face only)
- recess w/label
- faux clay
- 100% plastic, no insert
- 100% plastic w/metal insert
- dye-sublimation printed
- full-face and edge printing
- face/edge printing with recess/label
To correlate with previous terms:
- clays = compression-molded
- ceramics/hybrids = dye-sublimation printed
- china clays = injection-molded recess w/label faux clay
- plastic = everything else
I identify as a toaster. A clay toaster.
BirdCage
Flush
Very helpful. So are the mystery percentage and mystery contamination important parts of the chip composition or is it really 100% of the manufacturing process that makes the difference between the perceived feel of "clay" chips vs. CCs for instance? I sort of wonder is it 5% mystery meat or a fraction of a %.
It would be interesting to know the actual percentage of clay in "clay" chips. I bet it would be surprisingly low to most people.
Yes.
Yes.
@Meddler2 did some material testing a few years ago on (I think on PGI's china clays and ASM chips). They contained some similar materials, but 'clay' chips are an entirely different animal, made in an entirely different way. CC's are mostly plastic pellets with a few silicates added.
And there's a big difference between what's in the final product vs what raw ingredients were used. Better living through chemistry.
Meddler2
Full House
Correctomundo. Unfortunately that data has been lost on CT but if I remember correctly the main ingredient in the CC was calcium carbonate (chalk).Yes.
Yes.
@Meddler2 did some material testing a few years ago on (I think on PGI's china clays and ASM chips). They contained some similar materials, but 'clay' chips are an entirely different animal, made in an entirely different way. CC's are mostly plastic pellets with a few silicates added.
And there's a big difference between what's in the final product vs what raw ingredients were used. Better living through chemistry.
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
Heck, you can do octagons!
Yeah I did everything through pm’s here with Gene. You can take any of the chips in this line and put whatever denom you want on them (for an additional cost of course). Using 43mm upper denoms just set the DDLM apart from most and absolutely love them because of it (never mind the fact that they are cool looking and feel great to begin with).
RichMahogany
Straight Flush
I wish I would have gone the all 43mm route. As it stands, only my $100s are oversized and one day soon I’ll upgrade my $20s to 43mm
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
yeah I was already aware of the semi custom nature which I love. I can finally get a $20 chip in my set! But also go with a Cali color scheme. Now the 43mm just opens up all kinds of possibilities. I just ordered a sample set to see which designs I prefer best. Can I ask roughly what the up charge for 43mm is?
I don't want to miss-post the cost and steer anyone wrong soooo...pm sent.
My guess is around $0.10 per chip. If you go to the ABC web site, the prices for custom 39mm ceramics are exactly $0.10 less than the prices for custom 43mm ceramics for every quantity.
The cost for semi custom denominations and/or switching graphics appears to be $0.05 per chip (on the BRProPoker web site).
Pretty darn reasonable for a semi custom chip set.
Your assumption is wrong.
Eloe2000
Straight Flush
ekricket
Royal Flush
My tourney set is all 43mm and sightly custom, I switched the standard art on the 1000 and the 5000.
One of my groups favorite sets, it’s worth it if your thinking of spending a few dollars more and going 43mm
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