Cash game with close friends - what stakes? (1 Viewer)

[elemeno]

You’re in a cash game with close friends. It’s 75% about just hanging out and having a good time and 25% about poker. Maybe even 90%/10% for some attendees. The group enjoys some healthy competition and trash talk, but no one should be hurt financially or leave with hard feelings.

Half the players are willing to rebuy 2-3x, while the other half only buys in once. Incomes are all over the place, but everyone is doing above average. Some players want to play for higher stakes, while others want to keep the buyin low.

For those of you that regularly host or play in a monthly game with close friends, how did your group choose the stakes and what stakes do you play? What should the rebuy/add-on rules be? How many big blinds do your players start with?

 

[Machine]

Its just a feel, I've played in a lot of games, and for Omaha even 1/1 will quickly get out of hand. I started with .25/.5, and a lot of us that host even for NLH find that its a good level.

A lot of your players won't have an innate understanding of how it plays or how they feel about the stakes, they will likely need to play it to understand how they feel about it. What they will have a strong opinion on is the buy in.

I would suggest talking to them, find out if they are okay with a $20 or a $60 buy in, remind them that you'll be asking them to bring 3 buy-ins.

If you get $20 as the most common you'll want to see about a .10 / .25 game (of which you'll need .05 and .25 chips)
If you get $60+ as the most common you'll want to play .25 / .5 and will only need .25 fracs

I have a post about chip break down in my signature, and how to calculate for it. I would also suggest you sell it as No Limit, but announce on game day its actually Pot Limit to allow the game to be more friendly. I wouldn't allow match stack, just keep the buy in static.

Also nothing wrong with starting with .10/.25 and moving up based on feedback.

 

[4SUMERZ]

Your intended cash game sounds like my game. We are all friends on my 8 seat table, we golf together, have bowl together in the past, etc etc, so we just play once or twice a month to just hang out and have a sociable 4.5 hour session. Most of us are retired, but a few still work.
The buy in is $25.00, blinds $0.25/$0.25 (100 BB) We play dealer choice, NL Hold'em, 3 card pineapple, discarding one card after the flop, or 4 card Omaha.
70% of the time its NL Holdem, 25% Pineapple, and the occasional Omaha.
Add-ons are allowed between hands once the stack gets to $5.00 or less, and they can add on from $10-$25 in $5.00 increments. Most just add on another $25, but some may add on less if it's close to the quitting time, as we go once around the table at the end of the session.
We typically only have 3-4 rebuys /top ups per session. Not many go all in, unless their stacks are getting low. Like I said, it's not about wining lot's, or losing lot's of $$.
I offer free drinks and light snacks and we have a great time. I have my regular 8 counting myself, and a spare list of 4 if someone can't make it for a session.
The spare guys understand that they will not always get to play. They are friends of friends or golfing buddies, etc.

 

[Natskule]

Its just a feel, I've played in a lot of games, and for Omaha even 1/1 will quickly get out of hand. I started with .25/.5, and a lot of us that host even for NLH find that its a good level.

A lot of your players won't have an innate understanding of how it plays or how they feel about the stakes, they will likely need to play it to understand how they feel about it. What they will have a strong opinion on is the buy in.

I would suggest talking to them, find out if they are okay with a $20 or a $60 buy in, remind them that you'll be asking them to bring 3 buy-ins.

If you get $20 as the most common you'll want to see about a .10 / .25 game (of which you'll need .05 and .25 chips)
If you get $60+ as the most common you'll want to play .25 / .5 and will only need .25 fracs

I have a post about chip break down in my signature, and how to calculate for it. I would also suggest you sell it as No Limit, but announce on game day its actually Pot Limit to allow the game to be more friendly. I wouldn't allow match stack, just keep the buy in static.

Also nothing wrong with starting with .10/.25 and moving up based on feedback.

Good stuff, bolded is really important.

It's always easier to raise blinds/buy ins later than it is to lower them. Start cheap then raise them as necessary to get correct play.

 

[kmccormick100]

With my poker friends we play $.50/1(2/4/8/16) $400cap, with my non-poker buddies. $.05/10 $20 cap seems to be about the right stakes

 

[springbox]

Most of my friends don't have much of a stomach for gambling, so we play 5c/10c $10 to $20 buy ins. I have 2 or 3 guys who would like to play higher, but are fine to just hang out too. When you're focused on medical bills and rent, I understand not wanting to drop $100 to hang out with friends for 4 hours when we could play some board game for free, so I keep it small to keep people around. I'm hoping in a few years as people get more into careers they're amenable to larger buy ins.

 

[BSteck]

It’s 75% about just hanging out and having a good time and 25% about poker. Maybe even 90%/10% for some attendees.

Our crew is in a similar situation and we ended up liking a tournament format. The problem we had is that some players had no problems with rebuy, rebuy, rebuy and some players weren't so keen on throwing that much cash around in an evening. The deep pockets kept bumping up the stakes through the night to the point where some players felt pushed out.

The tournament format (with just one rebuy allowed) fixed it for us. Everyone starts with the same stack of chips for a small'ish entry fee. Play improved because rebuys were capped and whales couldn't just 'whatevs it's only $20' reload, reload, reload. Now things are much more about who wins the tournament for bragging rights rather than who won (or lost) a huge stack of cash.

It also made evening planning for those with home responsibilities easier because the tourney is likely to finish in an allotted timeframe. The cash games just kept going and going late into the night. Guys had a hard time leaving the cash game and then had some 'splanin to do when they crawled home at 2 am. The tourney format has made the significant others much happier about granting a poker-night hall pass.

 

[SavageLizard]

Our crew is in a similar situation and we ended up liking a tournament format. The problem we had is that some players had no problems with rebuy, rebuy, rebuy and some players weren't so keen on throwing that much cash around in an evening. The deep pockets kept bumping up the stakes through the night to the point where some players felt pushed out.

The tournament format (with just one rebuy allowed) fixed it for us. Everyone starts with the same stack of chips for a small'ish entry fee. Play improved because rebuys were capped and whales couldn't just 'whatevs it's only $20' reload, reload, reload. Now things are much more about who wins the tournament for bragging rights rather than who won (or lost) a huge stack of cash.

It also made evening planning for those with home responsibilities easier because the tourney is likely to finish in an allotted timeframe. The cash games just kept going and going late into the night. Guys had a hard time leaving the cash game and then had some 'splanin to do when they crawled home at 2 am. The tourney format has made the significant others much happier about granting a poker-night hall pass.

We do a hybrid. Normally start around six, a portion of the buy-in goes to a cash game (dealer's choice), and the rest is set aside for the tournament. We do the cash game for about three hours, and at 9:00 we wrap that up and pay everyone out. Then we do a single table NLHE with no re-buys, and a bounty for each player. That normally goes for 2-3 hours, sometimes quicker. When people get eliminated from the tournament, they can call it a night and take off, or they can hang around and watch. Everyone is normally out by 11:30 to midnight-ish.

We did it forever where I used to live, and I've done like three games in the spot I moved to recently. Everyone seems to like the format. You get some variety in games, and you get the tournament too.

 

[elemeno]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Our crew is in a similar situation and we ended up liking a tournament format. The problem we had is that some players had no problems with rebuy, rebuy, rebuy and some players weren't so keen on throwing that much cash around in an evening. The deep pockets kept bumping up the stakes through the night to the point where some players felt pushed out.

The tournament format (with just one rebuy allowed) fixed it for us. Everyone starts with the same stack of chips for a small'ish entry fee. Play improved because rebuys were capped and whales couldn't just 'whatevs it's only $20' reload, reload, reload. Now things are much more about who wins the tournament for bragging rights rather than who won (or lost) a huge stack of cash.

It also made evening planning for those with home responsibilities easier because the tourney is likely to finish in an allotted timeframe. The cash games just kept going and going late into the night. Guys had a hard time leaving the cash game and then had some 'splanin to do when they crawled home at 2 am. The tourney format has made the significant others much happier about granting a poker-night hall pass.

Intriguing! We usually play cash so no one is just sitting around if they bust, but the tournament format definitely addresses the stakes conundrum since it would be more for bragging rights. When one of your players bust, do they leave? Hang out for a bit?

 

[elemeno]

We do a hybrid. Normally start around six, a portion of the buy-in goes to a cash game (dealer's choice), and the rest is set aside for the tournament. We do the cash game for about three hours, and at 9:00 we wrap that up and pay everyone out. Then we do a single table NLHE with no re-buys, and a bounty for each player. That normally goes for 2-3 hours, sometimes quicker. When people get eliminated from the tournament, they can call it a night and take off, or they can hang around and watch. Everyone is normally out by 11:30 to midnight-ish.

We did it forever where I used to live, and I've done like three games in the spot I moved to recently. Everyone seems to like the format. You get some variety in games, and you get the tournament too.

How many players do you have? Hybrid sounds great, but not sure if my group of 8 players would want to play short handed

 

[BSteck]

Thanks everyone for your responses.



Intriguing! We usually play cash so no one is just sitting around if they bust, but the tournament format definitely addresses the stakes conundrum since it would be more for bragging rights. When one of your players bust, do they leave? Hang out for a bit?

Most will pull out another $20 and use their one rebuy to keep playing and still have a chance for the win. Interestingly, the smaller-stakes players seem more likely to rebuy into the tournament game than they were to rebuy into the cash game. I guess they see it as another chance to grab the tourney brass ring rather than just throwing more money into an ever-increasing cash game.

After their second bust, everyone usually sticks around to continue to BS, help deal, partake in the hot dogs and bourbon, etc etc. And unless you busted twice super quickly, the evening and tourney is winding to an end by then anyhoo. We pay top 2 so once it's gone head-to-head it doesn't go too much longer before they usually agree to a split.

 

[Taghkanic]

Poker is a much different game if the stakes are meaningless to the players, instead of high enough to make them want to take the action seriously.

But for a challenging regular game that will not burn your roster out, the stakes should not be the maximum that everyone can afford, but the maximum that will cause everyone to pay attention.

If the game is really just incidental to a social event, then I’d make the stakes the minimum you can without making them totally meaningless.

(If it’s 1¢/2¢, every flop will be a family affair, and 95% of postflop bets/raises will get called. Which means the winner of each game is just whoever’s cards run best. And lots of players will barely pay attention to the gameplay. Not very interesting or even much social fun, IMHO.)

 

[RowlettTexasChipGuy]

simple answer, ask your players what they want to play for, then take an average of what the group says.

We used to buy in for $20 to $50 at a time, but since we play some stupid games, we made it $100 for first buy in and then you can buy in from$20 to 3/4 of big stack, but really everyone just buys in for another $100

Not stupid money but enough to make you pay attention

and always if you dont like the game...............FOLD

 

[SteveEH]

Ask each player individually how much they're comfortable losing in a night, and set the stakes for 3 x 100 BB buy ins based on the median.

My players answered between $20 and $250, with most saying $40, so I went with .25/.25 blinds, ask them to bring $60 minimum, and on most nights people will win/lose around $40/close to 2 buy ins.

 

[drdr]

Poker is a much different game if the stakes are meaningless to the players, instead of high enough to make them want to take the action seriously.

But for a challenging regular game that will not burn your roster out, the stakes should not be the maximum that everyone can afford, but the maximum that will cause everyone to pay attention.

If the game is really just incidental to a social event, then I’d make the stakes the minimum you can without making them totally meaningless.

(If it’s 1¢/2¢, every flop will be a family affair, and 95% of postflop bets/raises will get called. Which means the winner of each game is just whoever’s cards run best. And lots of players will barely pay attention to the gameplay. Not very interesting or even much social fun, IMHO.)

All depends on the crew. My regular game (tourny then cash) is no money. Everyone is paying attention and play is tightish preflop, 2-4 of 10 seeing a flop. Mid tourny has a flop every second hand or so.
I hinted a few times that I'm happy to run for micro stakes and near had a rebellion. They don't want it. Even though we're in our 40s+ and financial well off. No one is even privately asking for micro.

Even I think it is weird. Got to cater the the crew, I guess.

 

[SavageLizard]

How many players do you have? Hybrid sounds great, but not sure if my group of 8 players would want to play short handed

We always have 8, works for the cash game and the tournament, like a sit and go.

 

[mconn116]

We have a pretty wide range of ages & income in my groups cash game. For example one game we may have my brother in law’s nephew who’s in college and to him $100 is a decent amount to lose in a night, and at the other end my wife’s stepdad who’s retired who would consider losing $500 just a casual night. I usually just put a max buy in out there and then a suggested minimum.
We’ve done .25/.50 nlhe games with a max $100 buy in plenty and it’s not uncommon for guys to buy in for 40-60. Last game we did a $50 max buy in with a $20 suggested minimum, and “tried” to incorporate some mixed games. Just all depends on what everyone is ok with losing so it varies based on who the majority is that rsvp’s earliest.

 

[Chubbs]

I play in a weekly .25/.25 home game. It started out as a .05/.10 game a few years back but obviously has gotten a little bigger. Most guys buy in for $25 giving them 100 BB. For our game that is what everyone is comfortable doing as the stakes aren't so high where you will miss your mortgage payment but it also feels good if you have a good night and win a few buyins. Most people are comfortable rebuying at least once with many of us, when having a rough night, are fine buying in up to 4 times or more, but that rarely happens...and at that point the game is already breaking up anyway as its 3 am or so. These guys are all casual players with a few of us that "know" the game a bit better where we understand if we are down a couple buyins it would be helpful if we could rebuy for whatever we are down to help get out of the hole, but for most of the guys that doesn't really register so we rarely allow someone to rebuy for more than the original buyin of $25...and on the rare occasion where some one was allowed to rebuy for more than $25 we ask the table if they are ok with it and it never has really made a difference.

All that to say, just play what the majority of people are comfortable with. Maybe every few months or so raise the game up to slightly bigger stakes and see who is willing to play. For my game, I know we would lose a bunch of people and would maybe be able to get 6 guys together for a game.

 

[Godzilla28]

I've hosted anywhere from .25/.50 uncapped to $2/$5 max $4k for close to 20 years. The game that I think is the sweet spot for a friendly game but good competition is .50/$1 $60 min to $300 max. The short stack buyers can do their thing, the max buyers can do $300 without running over the table. People win or lose $200 to $500 normally which won't break the bank. And rarely you would have a $1k winner which keeps the action players coming. My 2 cents.

 

[JonK]

I'm a bit newer to hosting poker at my place but the guys tend to like that $20 number. Three main reason we are getting together is to hang out and have some drinks. Poker ends up being that reason and when we put a little money to it, that makes it fun. We do re-buys at $20 and you can add up to $20 if you fall below $10 in chips. We keep it pretty simple and most everyone enjoys it.

I have had some recent friends join and they just bought in for $10 and cashed out for $30. It makes it fun for them while they are still learning the game and keeps them coming back for more.

 

[Nine_high]

You’re in a cash game with close friends. It’s 75% about just hanging out and having a good time and 25% about poker. Maybe even 90%/10% for some attendees. The group enjoys some healthy competition and trash talk, but no one should be hurt financially or leave with hard feelings.

Half the players are willing to rebuy 2-3x, while the other half only buys in once. Incomes are all over the place, but everyone is doing above average. Some players want to play for higher stakes, while others want to keep the buyin low.

For those of you that regularly host or play in a monthly game with close friends, how did your group choose the stakes and what stakes do you play? What should the rebuy/add-on rules be? How many big blinds do your players start with?

This sounds a lot like my group. I have people who bring a grand or more, and people who refuse to put more than about $60 in for the whole night.

What I've started doing is alternating cash and tournament nights. On cash night it's been dealers choice, .50/.50, $100 fixed cap. Attendance is alright I can get at least 6, often a full table. Typically get north of 2k in play.

On tournament night it's $25 with unlimited rebuys for the first few levels. This draws a bigger crowd, including several people who stopped coming to cash night, either because they don't have the appetite for the stakes or they believe poker=holdem. Last weekend I had 17 players. I also offer a cash table (.50/.50 uncapped) for when enough bust out but it's a much shorter session so it stays pretty tame. We had about 10 cycle through the cash table and were 7-8 handed most of the night. I think we got around a grand into play.

I'm thinking about moving up to .50/1 (or 1/1 or 1/2) for cash night as the people who gravitate to that are fine with higher stakes and often ask to raise the blinds or try to buy in well above the cap. I generally don't let them but the low stakes people have pretty much stopped coming anyway so I'm starting to take it into consideration for future games, even if only occasionally. I'm also considering dropping the post tournament cash game to .25/.25 and capping it at $50 to keep more tourney players interested and align better with the tourney stakes.

 

[drdr]

This sounds a lot like my group. I have people who bring a grand or more, and people who refuse to put more than about $60 in for the whole night.

What I've started doing is alternating cash and tournament nights. On cash night it's been dealers choice, .50/.50, $100 fixed cap. Attendance is alright I can get at least 6, often a full table. Typically get north of 2k in play.

On tournament night it's $25 with unlimited rebuys for the first few levels. This draws a bigger crowd, including several people who stopped coming to cash night, either because they don't have the appetite for the stakes or they believe poker=holdem. Last weekend I had 17 players. I also offer a cash table (.50/.50 uncapped) for when enough bust out but it's a much shorter session so it stays pretty tame. We had about 10 cycle through the cash table and were 7-8 handed most of the night. I think we got around a grand into play.

I'm thinking about moving up to .50/1 (or 1/1 or 1/2) for cash night as the people who gravitate to that are fine with higher stakes and often ask to raise the blinds or try to buy in well above the cap. I generally don't let them but the low stakes people have pretty much stopped coming anyway so I'm starting to take it into consideration for future games, even if only occasionally. I'm also considering dropping the post tournament cash game to .25/.25 and capping it at $50 to keep more tourney players interested and align better with the tourney stakes.

I like this approach. Providing a venue to two different clades of player.

 

[davesilver88]

This is hard to answer, kind of the ageless question.

I can’t tell you what the stakes should be. But I find myself in similar situations-

I simply just ask each person individually before hand. What game(s) do you want to play (usually NLH), and how much money do you plan on bringing. If they say I’m bringing $100, I would then say back okay well how about 25¢/50¢, $50 max buy.

After I survey everyone, there may be one guy on the low spectrum. And if that’s the case, I just let them know the majority of people wanna play these stakes, and if they’re aren’t comfortable they probably shouldn’t come. It’s a bummer - but seems to be the most appropriate thing to do. I also suggest that we play low stakes for a circus game night, so then that person can come next time.

 

[B0mbp0t]

I've hosted anywhere from .25/.50 uncapped to $2/$5 max $4k for close to 20 years. The game that I think is the sweet spot for a friendly game but good competition is .50/$1 $60 min to $300 max. The short stack buyers can do their thing, the max buyers can do $300 without running over the table. People win or lose $200 to $500 normally which won't break the bank. And rarely you would have a $1k winner which keeps the action players coming. My 2 cents.

Very similar to mine. $1/$1, $300 max, but can reload up to 50% of big stack. Normally have a $700-$1k winner each night, a $500-$700 loser each night, and everyone else is in that +/- $200-$500 range. And it's 2 orbits NLHE, 1 orbit PLO8, with $5 double board NLHE bomb pot after every suited flop. Night ends with a single hand of Durian (our name for $5 double board PLO8 bomb pot).

 

[Godzilla28]

Very similar to mine. $1/$1, $300 max, but can reload up to 50% of big stack. Normally have a $700-$1k winner each night, a $500-$700 loser each night, and everyone else is in that +/- $200-$500 range. And it's 2 orbits NLHE, 1 orbit PLO8, with $5 double board NLHE bomb pot after every suited flop. Night ends with a single hand of Durian (our name for $5 double board PLO8 bomb pot).

Hahaha, I like the Durian Bomb Pot...might pirate that for myself. We've had $600 to $1k pots the last few times we've done it.

 

[Larold]

You’re in a cash game with close friends. It’s 75% about just hanging out and having a good time and 25% about poker. Maybe even 90%/10% for some attendees. The group enjoys some healthy competition and trash talk, but no one should be hurt financially or leave with hard feelings.

Half the players are willing to rebuy 2-3x, while the other half only buys in once. Incomes are all over the place, but everyone is doing above average. Some players want to play for higher stakes, while others want to keep the buyin low.

For those of you that regularly host or play in a monthly game with close friends, how did your group choose the stakes and what stakes do you play? What should the rebuy/add-on rules be? How many big blinds do your players start with?

IF you have enough people, what I've done is split it into two tables. One table is the higher-stakes, more serious folks (within the crowd), the game and stakes are chosen, and it doesn't change. Likely candidates are .5 / $1 or .25 / .50 NLHE. The other table is dealer's choice, anything goes (including crazy wild card games we played in college.) This table tends to attract the amateur / uber-casual / low-stakes players. This table tends to see a lot of spread-limit 0.25 -> $1 games, spanning everything you can imagine. (stud, stud eight or better, chicago, black mariah, criss-cross, omaha, baseball, you name it).

Unfortunately you need at least 9-10 people if not closer to 15-16, and you need a healthy interest in both types of tables.

 

[MeridianFC]

You’re in a cash game with close friends. It’s 75% about just hanging out and having a good time and 25% about poker. Maybe even 90%/10% for some attendees. The group enjoys some healthy competition and trash talk, but no one should be hurt financially or leave with hard feelings.

Half the players are willing to rebuy 2-3x, while the other half only buys in once. Incomes are all over the place, but everyone is doing above average. Some players want to play for higher stakes, while others want to keep the buyin low.

For those of you that regularly host or play in a monthly game with close friends, how did your group choose the stakes and what stakes do you play? What should the rebuy/add-on rules be? How many big blinds do your players start with?

I'll direct you to the quote from my signature which is my mantra for this type of thing:

"Poker among friends and colleagues should not drive anyone to the poorhouse but should be expensive enough to test skill and make it interesting"
-Harry S. Truman

For my group that is quarter based bets (.25/.50 blinds, $1 min. on the turn for HE, .25/.50/$1/$1 for stud). Min buy in $50, max $100. Worse loss on the night should equal a good bar tab. I like to drink so you figure that one out.

 

[KHarp1]

Is having a second game an option for you? You mention that some want to move up in stakes and others not, so, maybe one weekend you have a micro stakes game and the next weekend you have a higher stakes game. All can be invited, but, let those that want to play lower stakes know this may not be for them.

 

[chamber2skipped]

Above average salaries can vary based on locale, but I would think keeping it at the lower stakes is the correct answer if you don't want bad blood. A second game like was mentioned above might be a good option. You could make 1 out of 4 sessions a higher stakes game.

 

[renegadegatorman]

The .25/.50 $50 buy in seems to appease the risk averse players and gamblers in my group. It certainly feels like the sweet spot. I also use @Chris Manzoni's recommendation of capping the rebuys to $100 total per player, that way the most you can lose is $150. I haven't had any players complain about this setup.