Bicycle Tires: Has anyone tried to refurbish these chips? (1 Viewer)

I spoke to my good friend who runs Tackett Game Calls about refurbishing some chips on a lathe. His feedback was interesting:

There are a handful of challenges. One is getting all the chips together and perfectly stacked. Another is getting them to stay together while on the lathe. Yet another is getting them perfectly centered between the lathe spindles so they spin true.

We discussed the possibility of some type of temporary, non-residue adhesive (like this maybe?) to hold them together while sandwiching them between a couple of blocks of wood. Getting all the chips centered is still an issue, and the turning process is going to remove quite a bit of material.

All chips will need to be turned to the diameter of the worst one of the bunch. So while they'll likely have varying degrees of wear, they all be machined to the lowest necessary thickness. So some chips will be unnecessarily shrank in the interest of consistency.

As has already been mentioned, achieving uniformity would be difficult from one batch to another. Even if you were somehow able to turn 100 chips at a time, you're almost certainly going to have diameter variances from one rack to the next - and once they were all mixed together it would probably be very noticable.

All that said, he said he'd be willing to try it when hunting season in MI ends. I don't own any chips in poor condition, but if anyone cares to send along some sacrificial lambs, I'll see what we can work out.
 
Moxie Mike said:
I spoke to my good friend who runs Tackett Game Calls about refurbishing some chips on a lathe. His feedback was interesting:

There are a handful of challenges. One is getting all the chips together and perfectly stacked. Another is getting them to stay together while on the lathe. Yet another is getting them perfectly centered between the lathe spindles so they spin true.

We discussed the possibility of some type of temporary, non-residue adhesive (like this maybe?) to hold them together while sandwiching them between a couple of blocks of wood. Getting all the chips centered is still an issue, and the turning process is going to remove quite a bit of material.

All chips will need to be turned to the diameter of the worst one of the bunch. So while they'll likely have varying degrees of wear, they all be machined to the lowest necessary thickness. So some chips will be unnecessarily shrank in the interest of consistency.

As has already been mentioned, achieving uniformity would be difficult from one batch to another. Even if you were somehow able to turn 100 chips at a time, you're almost certainly going to have diameter variances from one rack to the next - and once they were all mixed together it would probably be very noticable.

All that said, he said he'd be willing to try it when hunting season in MI ends. I don't own any chips in poor condition, but if anyone cares to send along some sacrificial lambs, I'll see what we can work out.
Click to expand...
Great information @Moxie Mike, all key issues with this process addressed.
Would be willing to participate in the experiment with some voluntary chips or a little cash to purchase the sacrificial chips to test it on.
 
Moxie Mike said:
I spoke to my good friend who runs Tackett Game Calls about refurbishing some chips on a lathe. His feedback was interesting:

There are a handful of challenges. One is getting all the chips together and perfectly stacked. Another is getting them to stay together while on the lathe. Yet another is getting them perfectly centered between the lathe spindles so they spin true.

We discussed the possibility of some type of temporary, non-residue adhesive (like this maybe?) to hold them together while sandwiching them between a couple of blocks of wood. Getting all the chips centered is still an issue, and the turning process is going to remove quite a bit of material.

All chips will need to be turned to the diameter of the worst one of the bunch. So while they'll likely have varying degrees of wear, they all be machined to the lowest necessary thickness. So some chips will be unnecessarily shrank in the interest of consistency.

As has already been mentioned, achieving uniformity would be difficult from one batch to another. Even if you were somehow able to turn 100 chips at a time, you're almost certainly going to have diameter variances from one rack to the next - and once they were all mixed together it would probably be very noticable.

All that said, he said he'd be willing to try it when hunting season in MI ends. I don't own any chips in poor condition, but if anyone cares to send along some sacrificial lambs, I'll see what we can work out.
Click to expand...
Probably better candidates out there but the Roadhouse $5s were cheap and just right for this kind of thing. Then again so were the LCO $5/PCA Primary $5/etc but probably not worth the value on those.
 
Lil Tuna said:
Great information @Moxie Mike, all key issues with this process addressed.
Would be willing to participate in the experiment with some voluntary chips or a little cash to purchase the sacrificial chips to test it on.
Click to expand...
ReallyGoodUsername said:
Probably better candidates out there but the Roadhouse $5s were cheap and just right for this kind of thing. Then again so were the LCO $5/PCA Primary $5/etc but probably not worth the value on those.
Click to expand...

If there's enough interest, I think we should try to use chips in the poorest condition as possible. But before we get ahead of ourselves:

My buddy told me there's a pretty high probability of mutilating the chips beyond salvage, and we'll likely go through a lot of them before we get it right. Furthermore, he has no interest in getting in to the poker chip rescue biz, so even if we're somewhat successful with our experiment, it's going to be a one-off more than likely.
 
Moxie Mike said:
If there's enough interest, I think we should try to use chips in the poorest condition as possible. But before we get ahead of ourselves:

My buddy told me there's a pretty high probability of mutilating the chips beyond salvage, and we'll likely go through a lot of them before we get it right. Furthermore, he has no interest in getting in to the poker chip rescue biz, so even if we're somewhat successful with our experiment, it's going to be a one-off more than likely.
Click to expand...
Willing to pay a little just for the knowledge anyway. I’ve heard of and have been curious about this process for awhile.
@liftapints NL/NC $1s are fascinating to say the least.
 
Aren't freshly pressed clays also lathed to remove the swarf etc? I imagine this is one of those manufacturing secrets that not a lot is known about because it's such a niche market and the knowledge just isn't common.

If I was to attempt it, I would use the CNC mounting trick of putting masking tape on both faces of the chip and then using some superglue to stick them together, face to face. I'd build a barrel and then glue these to wooden dowels to mount in the lathe. Given that the NL chips were in pretty reasonable condition to begin with, the variation between each chip shouldn't be that large. I can see big challenges in alignment with chips that have varying diameters due to wear or even variation between manufacturing lots.

If only I had a lathe...
 
Darson said:
Aren't freshly pressed clays also lathed to remove the swarf etc?
Click to expand...

Most likely. I surmise they have some type of clamping system that holds them uniformly together.

Darson said:
If I was to attempt it, I would use the CNC mounting trick of putting masking tape on both faces of the chip and then using some superglue to stick them together, face to face. I'd build a barrel and then glue these to wooden dowels to mount in the lathe. Given that the NL chips were in pretty reasonable condition to begin with, the variation between each chip shouldn't be that large. I can see big challenges in alignment with chips that have varying diameters due to wear or even variation between manufacturing lots.
Click to expand...

The masking tape idea is solid and would probably be effective - but it sounds like a lot of prep work. The chips don't need a strong bond - just enough to fight gravity.

One idea I thought of was to use a 1 1/2" plastic tubing to align the chips before securing them in the lathe. Something like this comes to mind:

1574112900108.png


That converts to 38.1mm - which might work for worn 39mm chips. If the chips were too snug you could slice it own lengthwise and wrap the chips in the tubing, then tape it closed. Once secured on the lathe, the pressure between the spindles would hold the chips in place. The tubing could then be untaped and removed, or just turned off.

This product is only 1 3/4" O.D., meaning the walls of the tube would only be 1/8" thick. So one would think turning the tubing off once it's on the lathe shouldn't require much effort, and the tubing itself is pretty inexpensive.

1574113246700.png
 
They do have table top versions of lathes. The ones I remember using in shop class were monsters
Moxie Mike said:
Most likely. I surmise they have some type of clamping system that holds them uniformly together.



The masking tape idea is solid and would probably be effective - but it sounds like a lot of prep work. The chips don't need a strong bond - just enough to fight gravity.

One idea I thought of was to use a 1 1/2" plastic tubing to align the chips before securing them in the lathe. Something like this comes to mind:

View attachment 368457

That converts to 38.1mm - which might work for worn 39mm chips. If the chips were too snug you could slice it own lengthwise and wrap the chips in the tubing, then tape it closed. Once secured on the lathe, the pressure between the spindles would hold the chips in place. The tubing could then be untaped and removed, or just turned off.

This product is only 1 3/4" O.D., meaning the walls of the tube would only be 1/8" thick. So one would think turning the tubing off once it's on the lathe shouldn't require much effort, and the tubing itself is pretty inexpensive.

View attachment 368483
Click to expand...
Great idea. I was thinking something along the lines of pressing the chips between portions of a dowel in a similar measurement as you described. Then shaving down to the dowels specs.
I like your idea better. I would think the chips would spin more securely and the shaving be more even the way your describing.
Will make a donation to the project if you decide to pursue it. :tup: Definitely keep me posted.
 
Darson said:
Aren't freshly pressed clays also lathed to remove the swarf etc? I imagine this is one of those manufacturing secrets that not a lot is known about because it's such a niche market and the knowledge just isn't common.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but also there are probably at least two (maybe three or more) completely different types of finishing operations, depending on the individual manufacturer.

ASM/CPC used/uses a manual grinding process to finish chip edges; it is assumed that GPI used/uses some type of lathe machining process to finish chip edges (based on rotary tooling marks evident on some chips). Who knows what process was used by BCC or TRK, or what process(es) any of the high-end plastic chip manufacturers are using to finish non-clay chips and jetons.

All are likely trade secrets and propriety processes using dedicated and highly specialized equipment. Or maybe it's just a custom wooden tray and a hand-held Dremel Moto-tool.

Bottom line, nobody's talking, at least not specifics.

Maybe the evil DROTT would cough up some intel if adequately bribed..... but then he is pretty difficult to reach, being inundated with tens of emails per day.
 
If you're comfortable with just the clamping pressure between centers keeping the chips in line then you don't even need a whole tube, half would do it.

1574116221485.png


You could put all the chips in using half the tube for alignment. Tape or wrap in clingfilm to prevent them from moving. Clamp in the chuck and then secure with the tail stock then unwrap and remove the half-tube. This way you're not machining away the tube every time. The only thing you'll need are blocks that are the same size as the current chip diameter which if you have a lathe are no problem.

For repeatability, you could make a jig that holds the chips centered before clamping between centers and then remove the jig. A few spacers or sacrificial chips to stop you from accidentally lathing the mounting block and you'd never have to change the mounting blocks for chips of the same diameter.
 
Moxie Mike said:
Most likely. I surmise they have some type of clamping system that holds them uniformly together.

One idea I thought of was to use a 1 1/2" plastic tubing to align the chips before securing them in the lathe. Something like this comes to mind:

View attachment 368457

That converts to 38.1mm - which might work for worn 39mm chips. If the chips were too snug you could slice it own lengthwise and wrap the chips in the tubing, then tape it closed. Once secured on the lathe, the pressure between the spindles would hold the chips in place. The tubing could then be untaped and removed, or just turned off.

This product is only 1 3/4" O.D., meaning the walls of the tube would only be 1/8" thick. So one would think turning the tubing off once it's on the lathe shouldn't require much effort, and the tubing itself is pretty inexpensive.

View attachment 368483
Click to expand...
A better approach might be a similar tube (plastic, wood, or metal) made to ID size -- that is split lengthwise and hinged to open/close, for easy removal once clamped.
 
Darson said:
If you're comfortable with just the clamping pressure between centers keeping the chips in line then you don't even need a whole tube, half would do it.
Click to expand...

I'm not a machinist - nor do I have any direct experience with wood turning. I'm only speculating that clamping pressure be sufficient.

Darson said:
You could put all the chips in using half the tube for alignment. Tape or wrap in clingfilm to prevent them from moving. Clamp in the chuck and then secure with the tail stock then unwrap and remove the half-tube. This way you're not machining away the tube every time. The only thing you'll need are blocks that are the same size as the current chip diameter which if you have a lathe are no problem.

For repeatability, you could make a jig that holds the chips centered before clamping between centers and then remove the jig. A few spacers or sacrificial chips to stop you from accidentally lathing the mounting block and you'd never have to change the mounting blocks for chips of the same diameter.
Click to expand...

Good ideas.

Any thoughts as to how we can achieve consistency with chips that are machined in different runs? Trying to manually gauge the diameter that will need to be removed sounds difficult.
 
Moxie Mike said:
I'm not a machinist - nor do I have any direct experience with wood turning. I'm only speculating that clamping pressure be sufficient.

Any thoughts as to how we can achieve consistency with chips that are machined in different runs? Trying to manually gauge the diameter that will need to be removed sounds difficult.
Click to expand...

I would expect clamping between centers would be fine for a couple chips but have no idea how many you can get in there before it gets sketchy! Any little vibration or catching the tool and you'll have chips flying everywhere!

Consistency is not a problem if using a metal-working lathe. Provided it's of decent quality and set up well, since the tool post is mounted to the lathe and not free hand (as with a wood lathe) then repeatability is exactly what it's designed for. You can cut to exactly the same depth every time.
 
joker80 said:
You could never do it without changing their diameter
Click to expand...
Technically not true.

Chip flatteners can chime in here. If you clamp a chip between two ceramics, heat it up, and then tighten the clamp more, you can actually decrease the thickness of the chip and increase the diameter. Then you can mill it back down with sharp edges. The chip is thinner for sure.
If you were an artist at this, you could use 38 mm Ceramic blanks, so when you squeezed the hot chip it would form a slight lip around the chip that could be re-milled sharp. Chip flatteners know what I’m talking about.
I wouldn’t recommend this, but it is doable without losing diameter. But you may flatten your hats if you go crazy.
 
liftapint said:
My guess is that words like "lathe" and "wet sand" are involved in the process, even though I have no idea what that means. It sure would be worth figuring it out. I wish I had the skills and know-how. I'd do nothing else in my spare time. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think a lathe would be the only way to accomplish cutting the new edges (aside from some computer controlled cnc or something like that). In either case I can imagine it would be a huge PIA for sure as each chip is going to be slightly different and may require slight adjustments.

But the end product is amazing!!:love:
 
hdgeno said:
This could be a painstaking process...and would drastically decrease the diameter of the chips. I can’t see this being a good idea.
Click to expand...
So far no serious change in diameter. Not painstaking at all and these were round as hell. . More results this afternoon
image.jpg
 
Last edited:
liftapint said:
I wish I knew how to do it. I've asked, and was basically told that I wouldn't be able to do it -- and I believe him.
Apparently, it's a HUGE HUGE pain in the butt, with many many steps, including cleaning the chips and sorting them into as similar condition as possible (I had over 2000 of the Nevada Lodge $1 chips to sort through to make similar condition racks). Then sort sort of next step with some machine, I don't know. Then a lot of polishing, and I don't even know what. All I know is that it was pain-staking work, hours and hours and hours and hours per rack, and there is no way this person would do any more of them for me. It cost me a lot of money to have them done, and it was worth every penny. I love them so much. In fact, my chip angel has so much PTSD from the project, that he hasn't even reconditioned the Nevada Lodge $1s for his own set!! He can't bring himself to do it.

Now, somebody figure out how to do it, because I'd love a couple racks of "reconditioned Outpost $1s!!.
Click to expand...
Has to be @Potsie1 - that’s my vote if it’s a member
 
liftapint said:
I wish I knew how to do it. I've asked, and was basically told that I wouldn't be able to do it -- and I believe him.
Apparently, it's a HUGE HUGE pain in the butt, with many many steps, including cleaning the chips and sorting them into as similar condition as possible (I had over 2000 of the Nevada Lodge $1 chips to sort through to make similar condition racks). Then sort sort of next step with some machine, I don't know. Then a lot of polishing, and I don't even know what. All I know is that it was pain-staking work, hours and hours and hours and hours per rack, and there is no way this person would do any more of them for me. It cost me a lot of money to have them done, and it was worth every penny. I love them so much. In fact, my chip angel has so much PTSD from the project, that he hasn't even reconditioned the Nevada Lodge $1s for his own set!! He can't bring himself to do it.

Now, somebody figure out how to do it, because I'd love a couple racks of "reconditioned Outpost $1s!!.
Click to expand...
Ima be your chip angel ! Hahaha. And it won’t cost that much.
 
I'm sure if the major producers use this sort of technique, there's plenty of justification in some sort of expensive jig that positions everything correctly before being processed, if not a specialized machine just for it.
 
So what does turning setup look like? 1 chip at a time or many at once? How are you holding them?
 

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