What's missing here? (2 Viewers)

[DMack]

@DMack it's new year's eve bro don't you have a bottle of wine and a super fit gf to go get drunk with and drop some balls or something? Lol

(you know I'm only poking at you in good fun)

I’m one of those creepy guys that doesn’t drink (I have been told many times that I can’t be trusted because I don’t drink). I do need to hit the weights, though!! I was trying to justify taking the day off, but you might have inspired me to get off my lazy behind.

As for the gf, I think I would have an easier time cracking the cop haters than her!!

Happy New Year to you and Ben!

 

[ruskba]

For you naysayers, let me ask you this:

In how many of these cases that aren’t “fought,” how many times do you think this scenario plays out:

“Sir/ma’am (don’t want to get a gender identity fight going), could you please explain why you have 1.4 million dollars of cash in the back of this truck?”

“Oh, wow, I didn’t know that was there. I’m just driving this truck across country for a friend that I can’t remember his/her name. That money isn’t mine.”

“Have your friend contactact is to get that money back”

“I definitely will do that, officer.”

And guess what, nobody is ever heard from again. The police then “steal” the money to fund Disney trips, lavish bling purchases, and early retirements. Quite simple.

Oh of course! They just forgot to ask for their money back, duh!

I'm sure that's why the Supreme Court, ACLU, etc. have all been involved in cases related to abuse of civil forfeiture. They just tell their clients "well, did you even ask for it back?"

 

[FordPickup92]

I’m one of those creepy guys that doesn’t drink (I have been told many times that I can’t be trusted because I don’t drink). I do need to hit the weights, though!! I was trying to justify taking the day off, but you might have inspired me to get off my lazy behind.

As for the gf, I think I would have an easier time cracking the cop haters than her!!

Happy New Year to you and Ben!

Lol happy new years!
Need to start working out myself, all diet and not fitness = no shape lol
Hope she gives in eventually!
Ps - nothing wrong with not drinking

 

[DMack]

Oh of course! They just forgot to ask for their money back, duh!

I'm sure that's why the Supreme Court, ACLU, etc. have all been involved in cases related to abuse of civil forfeiture. They just tell their clients "well, did you even ask for it back?"

You’re right. I totally made that up!! That situation would NEVER happen. SMDH

 

[ruskba]

And guess what, nobody is ever heard from again.

You're implying 100% of the stuff cops keep is because no one asks for it back.

Does your scenario happen? Sure! Do cops sometimes seize stuff that was acquired with ill-gotten gains? Sure! Do they also abuse the system? You bet your ass they do. But you seem to see it's all on the up-and-up, which is pretty delusional.

 

[DMack]

You're implying 100% of the stuff cops keep is because no one asks for it back.

Does your scenario happen? Sure! Do cops sometimes seize stuff that was acquired with ill-gotten gains? Sure! Do they also abuse the system? You bet your ass they do. But you seem to see it's all on the up-and-up, which is pretty delusional.

You’re right again!! That’s EXACTLY how I see it. Couldn’t sneak that one by you.

 

[daschuck77]

What if the victim IS the government? There are some politicians that just love a good old tax increase. What if their tax money isn’t being collected? You wouldn’t want to keep that from them, would you?

If you're just troll-poking or genuinely want anyone to have sympathy for the government as a victim, in either case you can find that word in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

You might have been the guy in school that reminded the teacher to assign homework to the class.

I do not hate on the police as individuals but I do hate on the lack of reforms to these laws that drive department motivations in states that exploit them to their fullest potential. As I posted earlier that you may have glazed over, some states have a deep abusive problem with Civil Asset Forfeiture, luckily your state does not seem as bad with a few situational exceptions which I also posted. BAD GUYS DESERVE TO LOSE THEIR SHIT 1000%. As a PCF'er and person, I think you may be better served and enlightened by not just thinking if something isn't a problem for you in Missouri then it isn't a problem for others anywhere else in the United States. I have lived this for over a whole year with my lawyer telling me how bad a problem this is in Virginia Beach, that the conversation needs to be escalated to action, and uprooting changes need made at the state level.

 

[Josh Kifer]

If you just troll-poking or genuinely want anyone to have sympathy for the government as a victim, in either case you can find that word in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

You might have been the guy in school that reminded the teacher to assign homework to the class.

I do not hate on the police as individuals but I do hate on the lack of reforms to these laws that drive department motivations in states that exploit them to their fullest potential. As I posted earlier that you may have glazed over, some states have a deep abusive problem with Civil Asset Forfeiture, luckily your state does not seem as bad with a few situational exceptions which I also posted. BAD GUYS DESERVE TO LOSE THEIR SHIT 1000%. As a PCF'er and person, I think you may be better served and enlightened by not just thinking if something isn't a problem for you in Missouri then it isn't a problem for others anywhere else in the United States. I have lived this for over a whole year with my lawyer telling me how bad a problem this is in Virginia Beach, that the conversation needs to be escalated to action, and uprooting changes need made at the state level.

And this is why the ignore feature is so damn helpful on this site for certain posters.

Couldn't agree more. I'm sorry everyone had to go thru this, and there is zero reason for the police to be keeping anything in assets in this case. Reform is needed, so damn hard.

 

[DMack]

If you're just troll-poking or genuinely want anyone to have sympathy for the government as a victim, in either case you can find that word in the dictionary between shit and syphilis.

You might have been the guy in school that reminded the teacher to assign homework to the class.

I do not hate on the police as individuals but I do hate on the lack of reforms to these laws that drive department motivations in states that exploit them to their fullest potential. As I posted earlier that you may have glazed over, some states have a deep abusive problem with Civil Asset Forfeiture, luckily your state does not seem as bad with a few situational exceptions which I also posted. BAD GUYS DESERVE TO LOSE THEIR SHIT 1000%. As a PCF'er and person, I think you may be better served and enlightened by not just thinking if something isn't a problem for you in Missouri then it isn't a problem for others anywhere else in the United States. I have lived this for over a whole year with my lawyer telling me how bad a problem this is in Virginia Beach, that the conversation needs to be escalated to action, and uprooting changes need made at the state level.

I can only speak for Missouri, as I’m not familiar with anywhere else. However, I happen to know law enforcement from all over the country (and other countries), and I have yet to be privy to the “let’s go abuse the asset forfeiture laws” meetings.

As for the lawyers in this, I’m sure they aren’t biased at all. And if they are such diehards into reforming the issues you speak of, why in the world did they allow 12K to be forfeited? I’m sure they were doing their social justice warrioring pro bono, too, right?

And as for the other individual’s comment about the ignore feature, I think that’s always the best way to deal with people that have differing opinions. Shut them out. Block them. Cancel them. Hurl a few insults before you hit that button, too. That’ll really teach ‘em!

 

[daschuck77]

Again, don't pigeon hole yourself to Missouri. Dig in, embrace the nuance, critically think, and expose yourself to the legit issues in other states. OP wasn't looking for trouble, not playing stupid games, and not trying to win stupid prizes. This was not a deserved outcome.

I know the theatrics between arresting officers, defenders, and prosecutors is usually an orchestrated dance rehearsed a couple times before they face the judge.
The bleeding heart lawyers that believe CAF is wrong are not necessarily empowered enough to be the agents of change or can sustain the fight. It's up to the state governments:

In 2015, the Virginia House of Delegates overwhelmingly approved a bill that would have required a criminal conviction before property could be forfeited under state law. However, the Virginia Senate killed the bill, opting instead to refer the proposal to the Virginia State Crime Commission for further study.

Well, we're waiting Virginia State Crime Commission...

Sadly, we all know there is usually more money to be made in prolonging problems rather than solving them.

 

[WedgeRock]

It’s not a crime.

If there is a law on the books that says you can't have a poker game without a license, then it's a crime.

Just because you disagree with it does not change the definition. It's like smoking weed before it was legalized everywhere... Still a crime.

My state specifically excludes rake-free home games from the definition of gambling.

 

[WedgeRock]

And for the record, I’m fine with assets being seized from criminals, as long as it’s used to pay back the victims. So if an embezzler is caught, the money goes to the person from whom the money was stolen. If someone is murdered, the money would go to the victim’s family. Not to the schools. Not to the department.

What about when money is seized from a drug dealer? Define victim. The users? Society as a whole?

Next, we'll discuss money seized from prostitutes.

 

[WedgeRock]

Again, I can’t speak for other states, but if you can prove the money is yours and hasn’t been obtained nefariously and you’ve paid the proper taxes on it, it goes right back to the owner. Many of these cases are never “fought” because those simple measures can’t be completed.

Our criminal justice system is founded on the premise of being "innocent until proven guilty." With civil forfeiture, it seems to be "seized until you can prove it was legally obtained." That seems backward.

 

[Beakertwang]

What about when money is seized from a drug dealer? Define victim. The users? Society as a whole?

Next, we'll discuss money seized from prostitutes.

Drugs and prostitution are victimless “crimes”, as long as everyone is consenting. They are voluntary transactions between adults. I’ll go on record saying I would like to see all those activities decriminalized. Decades of prosecuting drug use and prostitution has done nothing to solve the problem.

As it is now, I’d like seized money go to programs for drug treatment for addicts, or college/job training for prostitutes.

 

[WedgeRock]

Seized based on probable cause. Pretty simple, actually.

I believe the standard is "preponderance of evidence"... Much lower.

 

[WedgeRock]

As for the lawyers in this, I’m sure they aren’t biased at all.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I know a criminal defense attorney who is straight as an arrow...a really stand up guy. But he joked about sending former clients a bottle of whiskey before big drunk-driving holidays. I'm sure the fact that he charged $5000 for a first offense (and more for subsequent offenses) had nothing to do with it.

Point is, defense lawyers don't want the laws and/or procedures to change, lest their revenue stream become interrupted.

 

[WedgeRock]

Drugs and prostitution are victimless “crimes”, as long as everyone is consenting.

Even if you limit the potential class of victims to only those involved in the transaction, I disagree with you.

But many* drug users have multiple theft convictions. It's how they support their habit.

* I originally used the term 'most,' but I obviously can't support that with facts. Even the term 'many' might be an overstretch. But I know at least one person who is in prison for life because a security guard died trying to stop her boyfriend from stealing so they could buy drugs.

It is not a victimless crime.

 

[Beakertwang]

Even if you limit the potential class of victims to only those involved in the transaction, I disagree with you.

But many* drug users have multiple theft convictions. It's how they support their habit.

* I originally used the term 'most,' but I obviously can support that with facts. Even the term 'many' might be an overstretch. But I know at least one person who is in prison for life because a security guard died trying to stop her boyfriend from stealing so they could buy drugs.

It is not a victimless crime.

Theft is an actual crime, with an actual victim. Murdering a security guard is also a crime. Buying and using drugs is not.

 

[WedgeRock]

Theft is an actual crime, with an actual victim. Murdering a security guard is also a crime. Buying and using drugs is not.

She was in the car outside. Boyfriend went in to steal CD's. Boyfriend ran from security guard and hopped into the car. She drove away with the security guard hanging out. Her testimony (and I believe her) was that she took off when her boyfriend said, "Go!" and she didn't know he was hanging on or do anything with the intention of shaking him loose.

They were stealing CDs to buy heroine. Neither could hold a job because of their habit.

Everyone I know that smokes/vapes weed is not stealing to support their habit. I even know a weed/edible dealer that has a family and holds a respectable job. Transactions with him are potentially "victimless" but I do not assume all drug transactions are similar to his transactions.

 

[Beakertwang]

She was in the car outside. Boyfriend went in to steal CD's. Boyfriend ran from security guard and hopped into the car. She drove away with the security guard hanging out. Her testimony (and I believe her) was that she took off when her boyfriend said, "Go!" and she didn't know he was hanging on or do anything with the intention of shaking him loose.

They were stealing CDs to buy heroine. Neither could hold a job because of their habit.

Everyone I know that smokes/vapes weed is not stealing to support their habit. I even know a weed/edible dealer that has a family and holds a respectable job. Transactions with him are potentially "victimless" but I do not assume all drug transactions are similar to his transactions.

The security guard jumped on the car?!

Edit for clarification: I’m not excusing the lady driving the car, nor am I blaming the security guard for his own death. But I’m barely risking a sprained ankle, let alone death, to protect a company’s inventory of CD’s. If I’m close enough to grab the car, I’m close enough to catch the make, model, and license plate number.

 

[Coyote]

They were stealing CDs to buy heroine. Neither could hold a job because of their habit.

Strong poisons like heroine and cocaine do much more harm than they normally would by being illegal, and hence ultra-expensive.
If that couple could get their dose at cost in a specific hospital outpatient ward, they would not resort to theft or worse.
The fortunes built by organised criminals offering those products make the criminal networks more powerful than many Governments.

Hard liquor is extremely unhealthy and incapacitating too. It should never be advertised IMHO, but look at what happened when and where it was outlawed.

 

[CrazyEddie]

.

I made a political post but realized that's a mistake. I don't want to further derail this thread from the OP's situation.

I'm glad to hear that the OP and his friends have gotten probably as good an outcome as they could expect, although certainly much worse than they deserve. This never should have happened in the first place, and I'm sorry that they got caught up in the gears of the government machine. I hope they eventually end up able to recover the money and property which was unjustly taken from them. Best of luck to all in this fight.

 

[abby99]

Just because you disagree with it does not change the definition. It's like smoking weed before it was legalized everywhere... Still a crime.

If only!!! It's still illegal at the federal level and is still classified as a Class I drug, right up there with heroin and LSD. Just because the feds aren't enforcing the law aggressively, it's still an illegal substance nationwide.

Maybe some day it will be possible to buy edibles online from a US company and pay with a credit card.

Edited to remove political comments.

 

[warma]

If there is a law on the books that says you can't have a poker game without a license, then it's a crime.

Just because you disagree with it does not change the definition. It's like smoking weed before it was legalized everywhere... Still a crime.

My state specifically excludes rake-free home games from the definition of gambling.

The law is clear and allows home games, that was my point.

 

[ekricket]

Captain Marvel is a heroine. Dealing in people is a crime. What’s wrong with you people?

 

[DMack]

Drugs and prostitution are victimless “crimes”, as long as everyone is consenting.

Why don’t you ask the two adopted girls in my home about how “victimless” drugs are? One is 18 and the other is 9. Forget the 18 year old, strike up a conversation with the little 9 year old about what she has seen and knows.

I shouldn’t be the least bit surprised, but the idiocy of some of the remarks on here is really fascinating.

 

[Cliff]

I shouldn’t be the least bit surprised, but the idiocy of some of the remarks on here is really fascinating.

pot meet kettle?

 

[DMack]

pot meet kettle?

Clarify, please. I’ll be waiting...

 

[BGinGA]

I do believe he was referring to the idiocy of some of your remarks on here.

 

[DMack]

I do believe he was referring to the idiocy of some of your remarks on here.

Clarify it, Dave. Everybody knows you’re the expert on everything. Enlighten me.