Which came first: 25-chip rolls or 20-chip rack slots? (1 Viewer)

[randian]

Really, I'd like to know. One of the mysteries of the universe, like 6-pack hot dogs and 8-pack rolls.

For that matter, why doesn't anybody produce a 25x4 rack? I've seen a few 25x4 boxes, which seem very hard to find, but boxes aren't as useful when deploying chips for use (as opposed to mere storage).

 

[JustinInMN]

How has this question never been asked?

 

[ekricket]

If you assume the popularity of the 20 to a barrel rack is because of the acrylic trays then they probably came after 1948 cause acrylic sheets weren’t available till then. But who knows what they were doing with Bakelite, metal, and wood before then.
I always assumed the 25 to a roll was an artifact of dealing with Chinese manufacturing, so fairly recent.
It doesn’t matter, there’s a law about this that says when you want it one way it’s always only available the other.

 

[randian]

If you assume the popularity of the 20 to a barrel rack is because of the acrylic trays then they probably came after 1948 cause acrylic sheets weren’t available till then. But who knows what they were doing with Bakelite, metal, and wood before then.
I always assumed the 25 to a roll was an artifact of dealing with Chinese manufacturing, so fairly recent.
It doesn’t matter, there’s a law about this that says when you want it one way it’s always only available the other.

The Iron Law of Dissatisfaction. I know it well. In that case, the only reason that makes sense to me as to why retailers didn't switch to 4x25 racks when the manufacturing switched to 25-count rolls is because they want to "incentivize" purchases of chips you don't really need just so they fit evenly in the racks. Otherwise, crazy people like me might order X(25,50,75) chips because we don't really need (X+1)00 chips. The manufacturers probably don't care, because nobody is going to order 50,025 chips from them.

There's a somewhat similar usability problem with chip cases like the Versas: 50-chip slots instead of 2x25 chip slots. That would increase total slot length maybe a 1/4", hardly significant one would think, but a nice usability improvement.

 

[kmccormick100]

My guess is it has to do with stacks at the poker table in casinos being standard at 20chips. 20x $5s to a $100 stack, many tournaments encourage the standardized stacking of chips in 20s.

Also, you’re going to find that the majority of people on here don’t own chips that come in rolls of 25, those were never produced until probably the last 25 years or so. Paulsons come in 5x 20chip boxes, though I suppose TRKs used to come in 25x 4, which always seemed strange.

 

[randian]

My guess is it has to do with stacks at the poker table in casinos being standard at 20chips. 20x $5s to a $100 stack, many tournaments encourage the standardized stacking of chips in 20s.

Also, you’re going to find that the majority of people on here don’t own chips that come in rolls of 25, those were never produced until probably the last 25 years or so. Paulsons come in 5x 20chip boxes, though I suppose TRKs used to come in 25x 4, which always seemed strange.

That's the tail wagging the dog. 25 years is a long time. If racks had switched to 25 at the same time rolls did I bet casinos would have switched to 25-chip stacks. Casinos order in multiples of 1,000 so they presumably don't care so long as the rack holds a number of chips that conveniently divides into 1,000.

On the other hand, if casinos were the driver 25 years ago to keep 5x20 racks, why did the manufacturers switch to 25-chip rolls in the first place? Is some Chinese numerology thing? It's all so weird.

After 25 years I would have expected the majority of individual chip purchasers to have never seen a 20-chip roll.

 

[kmccormick100]

That's the tail wagging the dog. 25 years is a long time. If racks had switched to 25 at the same time rolls did I bet casinos would have switched to 25-chip stacks. Casinos order in multiples of 1,000 so they presumably don't care so long as the rack holds a number of chips that conveniently divides into 1,000.

On the other hand, if casinos were the driver 25 years ago to keep 5x20 racks, why did the manufacturers switch to 25-chip rolls in the first place? Is some Chinese numerology thing? It's all so weird.

After 25 years I would have expected the majority of individual chip purchasers to have never seen a 20-chip roll.

Casino chip manufacturers didn’t switch to 25chip rolls...

 

[Beakertwang]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't some TRK boxes 4x25?

 

[RowdyRawhide]

I'm gonna guess the 20x rule. There's not a $25 bill...so in a casino 20 ×$1 chip is a $20 bill. Not so useful now but for 50 yrs it would have been handy. Just like 20× 25c was a $5 bill. And in the 40's and 50's 20 ×5c was a dollar bill

On the same note I've always wondered why casinos never used a $20 chip more often

 

[randian]

Casino chip manufacturers didn’t switch to 25chip rolls...

The same manufacturers don't do both casino and consumer chips? Then why did the consumer chip manufacturers deviate from casino standards?

 

[RowdyRawhide]

The same manufacturers don't do both casino and consumer chips? Then why did the consumer chip manufacturers deviate from casino standards?

Most consumer chips are made in CHINA!

 

[randian]

On the same note I've always wondered why casinos never used a $20 chip more often

Why they made that exception to exactly copying US currency? Yep, makes no sense to me either. Some chip sets still have $50 chips despite the $50 bill being rarely seen these days (usually only $20 and $100 bills are available).

 

[randian]

Most consumer chips are made in CHINA!

What prevents a casino from ordering chips made in China?

Also doesn't explain why Chinese consumer chip manufacturers didn't copy casino manufacturing packaging (20-chip rolls).

 

[RowdyRawhide]

What prevents a casino from ordering chips made in China?

SECURITY!!

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Why they made that exception to exactly copying US currency? Yep, makes no sense to me either. Some chip sets still have $50 chips despite the $50 bill being rarely seen these days (usually only $20 and $100 bills are available).

I'm talking a practical casino setting... I cant recall any casino recently using $50 chip recently.

 

[BGinGA]

20 × 5c = $1

20 × 25c = $5

20 × $1 = $20

20 × $5 = $100

20 × $25 = $500

Multiples of 25x don't work out to standard cash chip denominations or standard currency, multiples of 20x do. And ALL of those numbers are cash chip denominations used by casinos, either past or present.

 

[allforcharity]

There are old plastic racks and old boxes that fit 25x4, though. I don't think the 25x4 plastic racks were used to hold poker chips, but more often slot tokens or some other similar size things.

 

[1A25R]

Easy
20 stack are reserved for 39mm chips
25 rolls are reserved for 40mm chips

 

[BGinGA]

Easy
20 stack are reserved for 39mm chips
25 rolls are reserved for 40mm chips

What about 39.5mm chips? 41mm chips, or 36mm chips? 43mm, 44mm, 45mm, 46mm, 47mm, 48mm, and 50mm chips?

Not so easy, maybe.....

 

[randian]

Easy
20 stack are reserved for 39mm chips
25 rolls are reserved for 40mm chips

I'm not sure what you're saying here. All the consumer retailers I'm aware of sell 39mm only in 25-count rolls. It would make more sense if they were sold in 20-count rolls, to match BGinGA's point about cash denominations (and the racks).

 

[RowdyRawhide]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. All the consumer retailers I'm aware of sell 39mm only in 25-count rolls. It would make more sense if they were sold in 20-count rolls, to match BGinGA's point about cash denominations (and the racks).

43mm here

https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/royal-poker-chips/

 

[randian]

43mm here

https://www.apachepokerchips.com/product/royal-poker-chips/

I've seen those before, they seem to be popular. Still in 25-count rolls though, just like the 39mm Dunes or Majestics.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

I've seen those before, they seem to be popular. Still in 25-count rolls though, just like the 39mm Dunes or Majestics.

Just order rolls in increments of 4.....problem solved

 

[1A25R]

Not so easy, maybe.....

Was an easy proposal to answer a complex situation. Now you can all disagree and debate about logistics and how many chips fits into a box in a warehouse.
I think than then you will find why their are packed by 20, 25 or by 100

 

[aaronroch]

I’ve got a couple of home poker chip cases from 60+ years ago, they have wood racks that fit 20-chip barrels.

The Bakelite chips I used to use in college (Anchor, Horn, etc.) were from the ‘40s and ‘50s, were assuredly made in the USA and came in boxes of 4x25 rolls. If a box had multiple colors, the colors were always in increments of 25.

This hot dogs vs. buns type dichotomy has been around longer than acrylic, plastic and Chinese manufacturing, and I’d love to know why or even when it started.

 

[Brookston]

All my old roulette chips were in 25x4 boxes. Many, many times I tried grabbing a stack between thumb and pointer and managed to shoot the middle chips out from the stack, and drop them all. Stacks of 20 are much easier to remove from the boxes without dropping. I wonder if that's why they switched, considering how fragile they can be.

 

[aaronroch]

All my old roulette chips were in 25x4 boxes. Many, many times I tried grabbing a stack between thumb and pointer and managed to shoot the middle chips out from the stack, and drop them all. Stacks of 20 are much easier to remove from the boxes without dropping. I wonder if that's why they switched, considering how fragile they can be.

No doubt, 20 is better all around.

But as near as I can tell, chips for the home poker market have been sold in increments of 25 for at least 80 years, while racks and holders for the same home market have been laid out for 20 chips for just as long. Really quite like the hot dogs & buns conundrum. (Which Steve Martin movie was that?). 20 and 20 would be great, 25 and 25 would be worse but at least consistent. But 25 and 20 is just...

 

[abby99]

I have a theory. We know that chips in casino's dealer trays are in groups of 20 (when possible) to facilitate easy counting. It makes sense, then, that plastic trays/racks used in casinos also have rows of 20 chips. If it was easier to get a quick and accurate count when chips are in stacks of 25, I have no doubt that 25 would be the casino norm.

While most acrylic racks in the retail market are 5x20 "as seen in casinos," some wood cases come with 4x25 wood racks with knobs (handles) on top.

Hot dogs are sold in packages of 10 because 2 of them will usually disappear from the hot dog roller just before the remaining 8 dogs are paired with the 8 buns to make hot dog sandwiches.