When is a chip set too valuable? (1 Viewer)

[shorticus]

This is a spin-off topic from a comment made by @Eriks. I didn’t want that conversation to take over the intended purpose of the original thread.

So the question stands, when is a set just worth too much to hold on to?

Feel free to showcase your sets when you share your experience.

Tagging people who showed interest in the conversation :
@BarrieJ3
@upNdown
@Kid_Eastwood

 

[RichMahogany]

When you need the money more than the chips

 

[cgpilot]

For me when I felt uncomfortable using them in my home game. When I felt the need to tell players to be more careful.

 

[shorticus]

For me when I felt uncomfortable using them in my home game. When I felt the need to tell players to be more careful.

Agreed with this. If I ever get to a point where I’m telling people not to shuffle chips at the table or enjoy the chips I’ve acquired, I feel like it’s time to move on.

 

[Eloe2000]

When they are too valuable to play.

I am not a collector. I am a home poker player who likes fun things for my game. I don't understand collecting in general (I am a minimalist) so I similarly don't understand people who build and acquire poker sets without playing them. But if I can't get any utility out of playing a set because I am worried about the play significantly impacting the value or somehow damaging a historic set then I would get rid of it.

 

[RichMahogany]

No such thing as a set that’s too valuable to play

 

[ekricket]

For me when I felt uncomfortable using them in my home game. When I felt the need to tell players to be more careful.

Lol, not really directed at you, but if you start worrying about how people treat your home are you going to sell it and buy a cheap made one?

 

[upNdown]

I’ll copy what I posted in the other thread as add some thoughts.
I built this set a couple of summers ago:

All it needed was another rack or three of PCA $5s, and I’d have a set to keep forever. And I knew I’d find them, with patience; no rush.
But then one morning, Windwalker offered $1200 each for a dozen racks of PCA $5s, and I guess I realized 4 things:
1) I was happy to sell mine at that price.
2) I’d never find more of them at an acceptable price
3) I’d probably never find ANY mint leaded THC $5s at a reasonable price to finish the set.
4) Mint leaded THCs were now too expensive for me to justify owning.
I didn’t love those realizations, but that’s life. I sold.

But to add some details, that single rack of fracs was essentially traded for about half of this leaded THC set - totally different league of course, but I’m more of a player than a collector and I’m also a cheap bastard, so it seemed like a no-brainer downgrade - line my pockets with cash and come out of it with a bigger leaded THC set (which is ugly to many but loved by me)

Now, it will probably be a long time before I have to sell those - casino used hot stamps still aren’t fetching the big bucks these days and that’s fine with me.

The real question is, at what point do I sell my beloved Foxwoods THCs? I’ve put that set together one piece at a time over a couple of years. It’s been a labor of love. And the chips are both beautiful and have personal meaning. But they are a unique THC casino set that somebody will probably want to pay a lot of money for, at some point. That won’t be as easy of a decision.

 

[Eloe2000]

No such thing as a set that’s too valuable to play

I am generally in agreement with this philosophy. But hypothetically I could imagine owning one of those one of a kind type sets that Windwalker has where I wouldn't feel right playing it frequently enough to have the utility for me to keep it.

 

[cgpilot]

Lol, not really directed at you, but if you start worrying about how people treat your home are you going to sell it and buy a cheap made one?

I have 3 little kids. If they haven’t already destroyed something in the house it’s probably fine. however they don’t get to play with the nicer chips.

 

[RichMahogany]

I am generally in agreement with this philosophy. But hypothetically I could imagine owning one of those one of a kind type sets that Windwalker has where I wouldn't feel right playing it frequently enough to have the utility for me to keep it.

This could be said for any set though. If you don’t play it frequently, regardless of the reason, the set should probably be on the chopping block.

I understand what you’re saying though

 

[BonScot]

My chips are for playing with. I’ve never understood the whole “mint” collecting thing.

If my chips aren’t covered in beer, pizza sauce and other questionable fluids then I haven’t hosted my game night right

Eventually they’ll turn up on the classifieds after I’ve snuffed it and hopefully whoever sells them blows all the money on a week in Vegas or Amsterdam

 

[BarrieJ3]

My grandmothers house is worth around 1.2 - 1.6 Milly.

My grandparents bought it just over 45 years ago for $38,000.

She can sell it and live the rest of her life like a queen. With nowhere to live. Because a small condo 1/4 the size of her house costs the same now.

I suppose my point is, what does "when is a set just worth too much to hold on to?" mean? I don't interpret it to mean, I just bought a $10k set, can I hold on to it. It means, I bought chips at X, but now its worth YZ! How long before I'm forced to sell and realize gains?

I don't have a specific question to the answer. Instead I would offer up an additional question.

For those that sell because their set has increased in value too much, is your thought "I'm selling this and forever relegating myself to cheaper/less sought after sets." Or is your thought "I'm going to sell this for now, I'll be able to find or buy stuff again just like it later when I'm flush"?

 

[CrazyEddie]

I only buy chips using disposable income. Accordingly, I'll never sell them because I "need the money". And while it's conceivable that the offering price could rise high enough that there would be a meaningful decision to make along the magnitude of "would I rather keep these chips or buy a car", I don't expect I'd ever have a reason to sell my chips for anything less than life-changing money, which isn't going to happen.

I bought my chips for a reason: I like them. I'm not going to get rid of them as long as that reason still exists.

 

[CrazyEddie]

I don't encourage anyone to follow my example. I encourage everyone to sell your chips as soon as possible, to me.

 

[shorticus]

My grandmothers house is worth around 1.2 - 1.6 Milly.

My grandparents bought it just over 45 years ago for $38,000.

She can sell it and live the rest of her life like a queen. With nowhere to live. Because a small condo 1/4 the size of her house costs the same now.

I suppose my point is, what does "when is a set just worth too much to hold on to?" mean? I don't interpret it to mean, I just bought a $10k set, can I hold on to it. It means, I bought chips at X, but now its worth YZ! How long before I'm forced to sell and realize gains?

I don't have a specific question to the answer. Instead I would offer up an additional question.

For those that sell because their set has increased in value too much, is your thought "I'm selling this and forever relegating myself to cheaper/less sought after sets." Or is your thought "I'm going to sell this for now, I'll be able to find or buy stuff again just like it later when I'm flush"?

I imagine for some when the prices skyrocketed around 2020ish. People who were able to get chips at a relatively cheap price had a decision to make. When we started seeing wanted ads for 10x the cost, I imagine that those people have decisions to make.

 

[shorticus]

I don't expect I'd ever have a reason to sell my chips for anything less than life-changing money, which isn't going to happen

This is where the conversation becomes relative to a specific person, and it makes it interesting. Point being, there’s always a selling point. It’s just different for all of us.

 

[Eriks]

For those that sell because their set has increased in value too much, is your thought "I'm selling this and forever relegating myself to cheaper/less sought after sets."

Yes

Edit: or you know, if the bubble bursts and prices come down to what I consider reasonable again, I might pick up a set

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

For me when I felt uncomfortable using them in my home game. When I felt the need to tell players to be more careful.

I can understand that.

But myself, I'm not a collector, if I buy a set, I do it to play it, not to watch it.

I don't care if Poker chips are getting used with normal / regular use.

But in general, not only for Poker chips, I don't have a problem asking people to use my stuff properly. It can be a game controller, Poker chips, books, ...

Recently I weighted the decision about selling a The Post / Silver Star mixed set but decided not. The reason being : I'd never be able to get a similar set anymore at the price I got mine. So better to enjoy them.

This dilemma was not about money but the frustration of not being able to transform my mixed set into a full The Post set. I'm even ready to move my SS (near-mint Leaded THC spotted hotstamp from Vegas) for The Post (good condition C&J) almost one for one.

Finally I decided to keep the set as-is, enjoy it and complete it, even single after single.

 

[BarrieJ3]

This is where the conversation becomes relative to a specific person, and it makes it interesting. Point being, there’s always a selling point. It’s just different for all of us.

I didn't realize that being part of the specific question, good point.

When asked literally, at what point would I have to sell chips, I would say this:

The Chips selling would need to have a great impact on my life.

I might feel a little uncomfortable owning a set of $15k+ chips. But I would almost certainly not sell. I would much rather split it if possible, or just move it around chippers homes so it could see play. In the long run, it's not going to be earth shattering money, so while sure it would be helpful, I didn't buy it as an investment and I'm not here for profit. I'd rather keep and share what I couldn't otherwise ever buy.

Lets say that a set approaches $30k. Lol that's getting to be a bit pricey for me, and might start getting difficult to justify when my wife or kids don't own something remotely as valuable, outside of a car. I would do everything in my power to not sell, including getting with my locals to say I don't want this to leave us, can we maybe all pitch in to own a piece of it? Lol divest the set to all of us?

At $80-120k, I'd probably sell. It would destress the wife and I could probably drop some additional money into my company to show my commitment to the startup. But even at this price, I'd probably rather offer it for 80% off to a local chipper with FROR.

This is just my take on things. Everyone's tolerance is different. Chipping and poker is purely social for me, I think of fellow enthusiasts as friends.

 

[Burke]

Really interesting convo to me. I've been at the verge of selling my one, custom set. I don't think I have hosted a game with it in the last 3 years. It is essentially a multi-thousand dollar, large paperweight.

I don't have a specific question to the answer. Instead I would offer up an additional question.

For those that sell because their set has increased in value too much, is your thought "I'm selling this and forever relegating myself to cheaper/less sought after sets." Or is your thought "I'm going to sell this for now, I'll be able to find or buy stuff again just like it later when I'm flush"?

Definitely a good question - I'm usually leaning towards the latter answer. For example, at the exact current moment I'm low on expendable cash. And obviously this is relative, but it is hard for me to justify (lots of) gambling in Vegas on my upcoming trip this week because I don't have a ton of excess funds. I also know that if I sold I would be admitting that I likely never get the chips back.

 

[MrCatPants]

My grandmothers house is worth around 1.2 - 1.6 Milly.

My grandparents bought it just over 45 years ago for $38,000.

She can sell it and live the rest of her life like a queen. With nowhere to live. Because a small condo 1/4 the size of her house costs the same now.

I suppose my point is, what does "when is a set just worth too much to hold on to?" mean? I don't interpret it to mean, I just bought a $10k set, can I hold on to it. It means, I bought chips at X, but now its worth YZ! How long before I'm forced to sell and realize gains?

I don't have a specific question to the answer. Instead I would offer up an additional question.

For those that sell because their set has increased in value too much, is your thought "I'm selling this and forever relegating myself to cheaper/less sought after sets." Or is your thought "I'm going to sell this for now, I'll be able to find or buy stuff again just like it later when I'm flush"?

On your last question, I have two sets that fall into this category - a tourney set of high denomination noirs and another set that I don't want to RIP my inbox for even posting. I was asking myself these questions on my Noirs in 2020 when an auction went for like $5 a chip and I remember posting about it. Now the private market, it takes over $10 a chip to shake these loose even from friendly folks on here.

I think it's about a few different things in combination:
1) as others have mentioned, when you start getting jumpy about putting them into play. I have one guy who will do shit like bounce chips off the dealer button. And then I got worried about shufflers. And my last game, I had a chipper notice one of my sets and ask "you never put that into play, right?" and I was like....uh...I do...but haven't lately because of these same thoughts.
2) when they are actually a tangible amount of your net worth it changes your calculus - if I had a boat or other 'not life necessary' luxury item I'd be thinking about that to - do I really need $XXk tied up in a hobby that I'm even worried about using now? My closet once had a couple thousand in poker chips in it - so like a big TV. Now it has tens of thousands of dollars of poker chips in it - like a car.
3) with family/kids it starts to get even more tangible. I have a nice vacation or two siting on my shelf - is that fair to everyone else in my household? What about when we start talking things like college tuition?
4) I think when most people let a set go they know they aren't getting it back (and definitely not getting it back for less) unless it's a deal with a friend. That said, though, like your condo example - it allows people to either "downsize" their chip holdings or to simply use money as an intermediary to trade for a similar quality set.
5) compound this for people who have enough other sets that they are still 'fine' if they let their big one go. If I left my RIP my inbox set go, I'd still have 3 other quality cash sets. So what's the real impact to my life?

If they are not bringing you enough joy, there's definitely reasons other than a profit mentality to convert that asset into cash.

 

[BarrieJ3]

On your last question, I have two sets that fall into this category - a tourney set of high denomination noirs and another set that I don't want to RIP my inbox for even posting. I was asking myself these questions on my Noirs in 2020 when an auction went for like $5 a chip and I remember posting about it. Now the private market, it takes over $10 a chip to shake these loose even from friendly folks on here.

I think it's about a few different things in combination:
1) as others have mentioned, when you start getting jumpy about putting them into play. I have one guy who will do shit like bounce chips off the dealer button. And then I got worried about shufflers. And my last game, I had a chipper notice one of my sets and ask "you never put that into play, right?" and I was like....uh...I do...but haven't lately because of these same thoughts.
2) when they are actually a tangible amount of your net worth it changes your calculus - if I had a boat or other 'not life necessary' luxury item I'd be thinking about that to - do I really need $XXk tied up in a hobby that I'm even worried about using now? My closet once had a couple thousand in poker chips in it - so like a big TV. Now it has tens of thousands of dollars of poker chips in it - like a car.
3) with family/kids it starts to get even more tangible. I have a nice vacation or two siting on my shelf - is that fair to everyone else in my household? What about when we start talking things like college tuition?
4) I think when most people let a set go they know they aren't getting it back (and definitely not getting it back for less) unless it's a deal with a friend. That said, though, like your condo example - it allows people to either "downsize" their chip holdings or to simply use money as an intermediary to trade for a similar quality set.
5) compound this for people who have enough other sets that they are still 'fine' if they let their big one go. If I left my RIP my inbox set go, I'd still have 3 other quality cash sets. So what's the real impact to my life?

If they are not bringing you enough joy, there's definitely reasons other than a profit mentality to convert that asset into cash.

Extraordinarily well answered. I completely agree with your response across the board.

I wonder if the whole FROR at reduced pricing doesn't fix most issues though? Like if you have close friend locals, does it help to 1) realize gains 2) keep the price down so you have the ability to repurchase 3) spread the loss in using the chips and having them no longer mint across owners 4) keep chips local 5) justify owning them at any point (instead of repping a vacation or car, they rep a temporary commodity that can move back and forth as timing/bank accounts dictate)?

 

[RichMahogany]

A lot depends on your players too. If you have an extremely valuable set would you rather have Joe from down the block handle your pricey set? A guy who just wants hang out and shoot the shit while playing cards then maybe you break out the cheaper sets.

If your table is populated with chippers who know and appreciate the colors, spots, history, value, and difficulty in said “expensive” sets, that when you break out the goods without worry

 

[BarrieJ3]

A lot depends on your players too. If you have an extremely valuable set would you rather have Joe from down the block who just want to hang out and shoot the shit while playing cards then maybe you break out the cheaper sets.

If your table is populated with chippers who know and appreciate the colors, spots, history, value, and difficulty in said “expensive” sets, that when you break out the goods without worry

Which group do I fall into

Let me see the beauties Phil!!!!

 

[RichMahogany]

Which group do I fall into

Let me see the beauties Phil!!!!

You were more of the former I think but are evolving into the latter.

We’re a bad influence on you lol

 

[liftapint]

A lot depends on your players too. If you have an extremely valuable set would you rather have Joe from down the block handle your pricey set? A guy who just wants hang out and shoot the shit while playing cards then maybe you break out the cheaper sets.

If your table is populated with chippers who know and appreciate the colors, spots, history, value, and difficulty in said “expensive” sets, that when you break out the goods without worry

I don't know....I trust Joe from down the block to play with the Nevada Lodge blurples and not think anything of it. I'm not sure I trust chippers to play with the Nevada Lodge blurples and not to pocket them! LOL. Kidding (only sorta)

 

[Burke]

@MrCatPants im very intrigued by your "RIP inbox" set...I think you should sell it at auction so I can watch!

 

[MrCatPants]

Extraordinarily well answered. I completely agree with your response across the board.

I wonder if the whole FROR at reduced pricing doesn't fix most issues though? Like if you have close friend locals, does it help to 1) realize gains 2) keep the price down so you have the ability to repurchase 3) spread the loss in using the chips and having them no longer mint across owners 4) keep chips local 5) justify owning them at any point (instead of repping a vacation or car, they rep a temporary commodity that can move back and forth as timing/bank accounts dictate)?

Market still wins unfortunately. Made a post about prisoners dilemma in the flipping thread. Eventually someone breaks the cycle and wins big and everyone else gets screwed. If a set is converted into cash it still allows the same concept but in a safer way.

 

[Burke]

Has anyone pawned a set of chips with another member publically?