Was this a villain angle shoot? (1 Viewer)

[12thMan]

Hell, I don't even believe players when they say I'm good and they tell the dealer to ship it my way if they're still holding cards.
The "meant to bet xy" thing happens so often in casinos/card rooms that to decide if it's an angle or not really comes down to history. Some people do it often like our asshole friend here:

A personal favorite (where my avatar comes from):

Not like thiiiis....

 

[BGinGA]

The chip swapping or the verbally declared incorrect raise or both?

Go back and read the OP -- the villain made a legal bet. Everything that happened after was just jaw-jacking, and means nothing. You of all people should know that what is said at the table means nothing outside the context of the rules. Running his mouth certainly wasn't angle-shooting, whether he said it to deceive or not. If intentional, it's the same thing as acting weak when actually strong, etc.

Angle shooting is doing/saying something to 'possibly' gain an unfair advantage, and typically only has an upside for the shooter with no downside risk. None of that in play here.

 

[JoseRijo]

If it was an angle, it's pretty much the worse one ever. Unless he "meant" to get a small flush to fold. Either way, he doesn't sound like an opponent to fear.

 

[bergs]

Go back and read the OP -- the villain made a legal bet. Everything that happened after was just jaw-jacking, and means nothing. You of all people should know that what is said at the table means nothing outside the context of the rules. Running his mouth certainly wasn't angle-shooting, whether he said it to deceive or not. If intentional, it's the same thing as acting weak when actually strong, etc.

Angle shooting is doing/saying something to 'possibly' gain an unfair advantage, and typically only has an upside for the shooter with no downside risk. None of that in play here.

I guess we have a different definition of angleshooting. I define angleshooting as acting in an unethical manner to gain a perceived advantage. In my earlier example, the person swapping out the cash game chips isn't stealing - the host has the same number of chips as he did before they combined sets - but the person who picked out the spinners is acting in an unethical manner because they perceive it gives them an edge.

In the OP example, we have to assume that the player meant to bet what he bet but was representing that he mean to bet less in order to get a player with a weak hand that would otherwise fold, to call. Perhaps it was an honest mistake, but we're better off keeping a careful eye on this individual throughout the rest of the session.

I see angleshooting all the time at Foxwoods. Floor gets called and sadly says that the player didn't break a rule, but it's obvious to everyone that acted unethically to try to get an edge.

 

[bergs]

If it was an angle, it's pretty much the worse one ever. Unless he "meant" to get a small flush to fold. Either way, he doesn't sound like an opponent to fear.

Or get something like TPK or a shitty 2 pair to call.

 

[BGinGA]

I guess we have a different definition of angleshooting. I define angleshooting as acting in an unethical manner to gain a perceived advantage. In my earlier example, the person swapping out the cash game chips isn't stealing - the host has the same number of chips as he did before they combined sets - but the person who picked out the spinners is acting in an unethical manner because they perceive it gives them an edge.

In the OP example, we have to assume that the player meant to bet what he bet but was representing that he mean to bet less in order to get a player with a weak hand that would otherwise fold, to call. Perhaps it was an honest mistake, but we're better off keeping a careful eye on this individual throughout the rest of the session.

I see angleshooting all the time at Foxwoods. Floor gets called and sadly says that the player didn't break a rule, but it's obvious to everyone that acted unethically to try to get an edge.

As chicken already noted, your previous example was crap, and totally unrelated to the discussion at hand.

I don't think we vary much (if any) on the definition of angle shooting. It really boils down to whether or not lying or trying to deceive an opponent at the table constitutes unethical behavior. I'd tend to argue that deception is very much a basic part of poker, and think most non-casual players would agree. Hiding hand strength (or hand weakness) is part of the game, as is using table talk to influence opponent decisions.

And in some cases, telling the truth actually violates the rules.

 

[B.C.]

Problem here is an individuals variation on the definition of an angle.

Pretending to toss in the wrong chips, stating you haven't looked at your cards when you have, saying " will fold to any bet" when checking the check-raising, fake pumping with chips over the betting line for a reaction etc. Angles - possibly/maybe.

A real definable angle for me is a "cheating" angle. Lying about a hand at showdown to induce a muck, chip stacking to purposely hide bigger denoms, fixing the deck, marking cards etc.

I have no idea of the intention of the player in the OP so can't comment definitively on it being an angle or not. But he does from the OP come off like an a-typical scummy jerk who we have all encountered at a poker table so either way, it should be "buyer beware".