The Redneck Poker Card Database (2 Viewers)

[Old State]

Just found this thread via a mention in the other one. Very nice work from what I’ve seen. I’ll have to go back through when I have time.

Owning a sample of most of what you tested in the first post, it was interesting to see they almost all lined up as I would have expected. The only surprise is Gemaco as they feel stiffer than some of those others to me.

Can’t believe there is a less flexible card than Faded Spade!

 

[Dix]

@Old State The new database is in the Resources section. (link at top of page)

Or, here: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

When the time limit on editing a post ran out @Tommy let me make it a site resource. So, we're using this topic as commentary & my card reviews.

Can’t believe there is a less flexible card than Faded Spade!

Stiffer?.... well, yea, but not by much that you can really feel. One degree's difference in flex isn't really enough for us ham-fisted humans to easily differentiate. So you could effectively call it a wash.

Seems that the way I've devised to measure flex works a lot like the decibel scale. I could increase the level of a sound by 1dB & 85-90% of people wouldn't even notice. Most people can't detect a change in sound level until you hit +/- 3dB minimum.

Also, going by feel, the scale is not linear. If we're calling 12 "stiff" & 20 "soft", "medium" is actually about 13-14. 16-17 being more of a "medium-soft".

The only Gemaco on the list are the Monarchs. I've tried getting a deck of the Superflex from Kardwell. But, they're stuck on stupid.

They're out of Blue, OK, fine so I order red. That was back in July. Since that time I've gotten two (yes, two) e-mails from them telling me blue is out of stock & asking if I'd accept red as a substitute.

Seriously??????

Kardwell is officially on my excrement list.

Seriously, we MUST be comparing different cards. I thought the Cartamundi casino line were the Cartamundi Tobago Casino Club cards,

Ah hah!!!! we found the problem!

The "Casino" line that Caramundi is selling to the general public (which is what I'm referring to) is not on the same stock as the Tobago Casino cards you have.

If you check the database, you'll actually find 3 different "Cartamundi Casino" entries...

Cartamundi "Casino Branded" - The cards you have. Branded in this case for Tobago Casino. That stock is sold to casinos only. (which sucks, they're now my #1 favorite decks) I suppose I could have called 'em "Casino Custom" or Custom Casino. Allegedly that stock is specifically designed to work well in shuffling machines with fewer jams. Which makes sense given the specs. (very light & very flexible).

Cartamundi Casino (Belgium) - Made by Cartamundi Belgium & available only in Europe. Similar stock to the Casino Branded, but thicker. Available at Pokerstore.nl if you want some shipped to N.America.

Cartamundi Casino (USA) - Made by Cartamundi USA in Texas. These are the ones readily available in N.America & are on the same stock as the Bravo bridge size decks.

Mystery Solved.

 

[Thomacetti]

Cartamundi "Casino Branded" - The cards you have. Branded in this case for Tobago Casino. That stock is sold to casinos only. (which sucks, they're now my #1 favorite decks) I suppose I could have called 'em "Casino Custom" or Custom Casino. Allegedly that stock is specifically designed to work well in shuffling machines with fewer jams. Which makes sense given the specs. (very light & very flexible).

Cartamundi Casino (Belgium) - Made by Cartamundi Belgium & only available only in Europe. Similar stock to the Casino Branded, but thicker. Available at Pokerstore.nl if you want some shipped to N.America.

Some of Belgium's finest

@Anthony Martino

BELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUMBELGIUM







I said some...

 

[Dix]

Some of Belgium's finest

I'll take two.

 

[Thomacetti]

I'll take two.

Only trades;...NOT for sale

 

[Jake14mw]

Ah hah!!!! we found the problem!

The "Casino" line that Caramundi is selling to the general public (which is what I'm referring to) is not on the same stock as the Tobago Casino cards you have.

If you check the database, you'll actually find 3 different "Cartamundi Casino" entries...

Cartamundi "Casino Branded" - The cards you have. Branded in this case for Tobago Casino. That stock is sold to casinos only. (which sucks, they're now my #1 favorite decks) I suppose I could have called 'em "Casino Custom" or Custom Casino. Allegedly that stock is specifically designed to work well in shuffling machines with fewer jams. Which makes sense given the specs. (very light & very flexible).

Cartamundi Casino (Belgium) - Made by Cartamundi Belgium & only available only in Europe. Similar stock to the Casino Branded, but thicker. Available at Pokerstore.nl if you want some shipped to N.America.

Cartamundi Casino (USA) - Made by Cartamundi USA in Texas. These are the ones readily available in N.America & are on the same stock as the Bravo bridge size decks.

Mystery Solved.

Thanks for the clarification! Half of the mystery solved anyway. I figured the "casino" card issue was something like that. The more surprising thing to me is people saying that the Bravos are not smooth. It's not just you saying it. Is there any difference between the large circle Bravos and small circles, or jumbo vs. regular index? To me the small circle jumbo Cartamundi Bravo finish is identical to the finish on the Cartamundi Ace Authentic cards. This question is open to everyone. Thanks.

 

[Dix]

Only difference there is that when you crack open a fresh Ace deck, take notice of the gloss on the backs

 

[Old State]

@Old State The new database is in the Resources section. (link at top of page)

Or, here: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

When the time limit on editing a post ran out @Tommy let me make it a site resource. So, we're using this topic as commentary & my card reviews.



Stiffer?.... well, yea, but not by much that you can really feel. One degree's difference in flex isn't really enough for us ham-fisted humans to easily differentiate. So you could effectively call it a wash.

Seems that the way I've devised to measure flex works a lot like the decibel scale. I could increase the level of a sound by 1dB & 85-90% of people wouldn't even notice. Most people can't detect a change in sound level until you hit +/- 3dB minimum.

Also, going by feel, the scale is not linear. If we're calling 12 "stiff" & 20 "soft", "medium" is actually about 13-14. 16-17 being more of a "medium-soft".

The only Gemaco on the list are the Monarchs. I've tried getting a deck of the Superflex from Kardwell. But, they're stuck on stupid.

They're out of Blue, OK, fine so I order red. That was back in July. Since that time I've gotten two (yes, two) e-mails from them telling me blue is out of stock & asking if I'd accept red as a substitute.

Seriously??????

Kardwell is officially on my excrement list.


Ah hah!!!! we found the problem!

The "Casino" line that Caramundi is selling to the general public (which is what I'm referring to) is not on the same stock as the Tobago Casino cards you have.

If you check the database, you'll actually find 3 different "Cartamundi Casino" entries...

Cartamundi "Casino Branded" - The cards you have. Branded in this case for Tobago Casino. That stock is sold to casinos only. (which sucks, they're now my #1 favorite decks) I suppose I could have called 'em "Casino Custom" or Custom Casino. Allegedly that stock is specifically designed to work well in shuffling machines with fewer jams. Which makes sense given the specs. (very light & very flexible).

Cartamundi Casino (Belgium) - Made by Cartamundi Belgium & only available only in Europe. Similar stock to the Casino Branded, but thicker. Available at Pokerstore.nl if you want some shipped to N.America.

Cartamundi Casino (USA) - Made by Cartamundi USA in Texas. These are the ones readily available in N.America & are on the same stock as the Bravo bridge size decks.

Mystery Solved.

Ok...the Gemaco’s I have are the Superflex branded and the Superflex non branded that Kardwell sells (or used to) for less. I also have their 5 star which are very cheap feeling to me and took a bow very quickly.
The Superflex stock feels almost identical to Cartamundi CCP USA made cards. I’d would put both toward the stiffer end of the spectrum but nowhere near Faded Spade stiff. For $10.95 right now on Amazon I don’t think you can beat the Cartamundi CCPs.

And yes Kardwell is a bizarre business to deal with. I’ve only ordered from them a few times ...but only when I have a lot of things to but. That’s what you need to do to overcome their obscene shipping costs. I probably ordered six or seven set ups of cards at once plus a bunch of Blackjack stuff I think the shipping was like $30! I did get mine in a timely manner but again the shipping was absurd. They have some cool proprietary Kem designs but there is no way I’m paying $29 for the cards and $12 to ship them!

 

[Old State]

Thanks for the clarification! Half of the mystery solved anyway. I figured the "casino" card issue was something like that. The more surprising thing to me is people saying that the Bravos are not smooth. It's not just you saying it. Is there any difference between the large circle Bravos and small circles, or jumbo vs. regular index? To me the small circle jumbo Cartamundi Bravo finish is identical to the finish on the Cartamundi Ace Authentic cards. This question is open to everyone. Thanks.

Hmm I’ll compare tonight. I do like the Cartamundi Ace cards. I gave them to my two boys to play with just because I don’t like poker sized cards. But I really like the feel....probably would take them over Bicycle Duraflex

 

[Dix]

Problem with Ace are the glossy backs.... pretty slick out of the box, but then they tend to get sticky over time & use.

I can only get one, maybe two tourneys out of a deck before they have to hit the trash because people start mis-dealing with 'em.

Marion Pro last longer for the purpose & I used to be able to get a brick for $50.

I bought 22 decks of the Bravo off Josh for just under a Bennie, Making them $4.36 per.

Also, I just jumped on the deal The Poker Store has running & got 40 decks of the Chinese "CLM" decks for what works out to $2.62/deck.

Given the finish, both of those latter options should out-last the Ace decks. especially the CLMs, since they're among the thickest cards you can get.

Link to The Poker Store deal topic: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/mtt-stock-as-low-as-2-62-deck.64234/

Like I said in that topic, you can't get Bicycle paper cards at Walmart for $2.62/deck.

 

[Dix]

Just for those wondering about my issue with Kardwell.....

Order Detail​ Order #5****​ Date: 07/18/2020 09:29:58 EDT​ Items in your order​ Product Details Quantity Gemaco Superflex Plastic Playing Cards Poker Size, Super Index, Red with Border 2

Note that part I put in RED above, it makes the story interesting.

E-mail 8 days later....

shipping@kardwell.com​ <shipping@kardwell.com> Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 11:42 AM​ To: *******@gmail.com Dear Wayne, Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, the Gemaco Superflex, Poker, Super Index – Blue decks are out of stock. We have Red Decks available in Super Index. Would you like to switch to two Red Decks. Alternatively, we have the Superflex available in Poker Size, Regular Index. Please let us know if you would like to proceed with either option. Sincerely, Kardwell International

OK, so it was Sunday..... weekend 3rd string bench-warmers in catching up on orders. Thought (for whatever reason) I ordered blue not red.... whatever. Reply to that e-mail stating that since I ordered Red.... send 'em.

A week goes by, I try calling.... twice.... no answer.... send another e-mail on Aug 9th.... call a couple more times, leave voice messages. Nothing.

Hell... I kind of let the whole thing slip off my radar.... until....

fred@kardwell.com​ <fred@kardwell.com> Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 11:13 AM​ To: ********@gmail.com Hi Wayne, I apologize for the delay in response but we are out of the Blue wide SuperFlex plastic playing cards with Jumbo (super) index. We do have 2 red decks if those will work. Please advise. Thanks, Fred Sommer Kardwell International Tel: 631-298-0005 www.kardwell.com

& No... the date on that e-mail is not an illusion... you're not hallucinating... Sept freakin' 28th... one month ago today.

 

[Old State]

Problem with Ace are the glossy backs.... pretty slick out of the box, but then they tend to get sticky over time & use.

I can only get one, maybe two tourneys out of a deck before they have to hit the trash because people start mis-dealing with 'em.

Marion Pro last longer for the purpose & I used to be able to get a brick for $50.

I bought 22 decks of the Bravo off Josh for just under a Bennie, Making them $4.36 per.

Also, I just jumped on the deal The Poker Store has running & got 40 decks of the Chinese "CLM" decks for what works out to $2.62/deck.

Given the finish, both of those latter options should out-last the Ace decks. especially the CLMs, since they're among the thickest cards you can get.

Link to The Poker Store deal topic: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/mtt-stock-as-low-as-2-62-deck.64234/

Like I said in that topic, you can't get Bicycle paper cards at Walmart for $2.62/deck.

I actually never used the Aces that much....just playing with the kids and vacation house with the neighbors

 

[Dix]

You mention the casino line like they were only made in poker size. Are these new to the market or previously unknown? I mean they're bridge sized and they say "casino" so I assume they're the same thing?
https://www.amazon.com/Cartamundi-1...8MHY8RB1PWE&psc=1&refRID=A0XEZNK6B8MHY8RB1PWE

In getting in a set of these....

Yep, they are on the same stock as the Poker Size USA made "Casino" decks..... which is also the same stock as the bridge sized "Bravo" decks.

Differences are all purely cosmetic. Back design & indexes are the only differences you're going to find amongst 'em.

 

[Thomacetti]

In getting in a set of these....

Yep, they are on the same stock as the Poker Size USA made "Casino" decks..... which is also the same stock as the bridge sized "Bravo" decks.

Differences are all purely cosmetic. Back design & indexes are the only differences you're going to find amongst 'em.

I bought 2 setup's of Casino acetate (green box) +5 years ago...didn't like 'm (slippery & prone to a bit of warping....ymmv)

 

[Dix]

Yea, the whole USA made Casino line are basically just an Ace with a flat finish coating on the backs. Nothing like the Belgium version.

 

[Thomacetti]

I'm playing the Belgian Poker Challenge (all Belgian clubs united online).

7 tournies played (won 1 and 3th in the last one, 5 times ITM) and 18th in general ranking.
I received info about cards that were made by the Antwerp poker group

These are on new copag stock....deal was made direct with Cartamundi Belgium, I will receive the info of their contact.
Want to see if custom Cartamundi casino cards are possible (or even generic ones, in bulk pricing).

Warm Black

Thatch Green

Mulberry Wood

Bronzetone

15 EUR / deck...that's a LOT for 1 copag deck.
I'll order one to see what's up

more info here

 

[Dix]

I agree.... that's more than double per deck than for a usual Copag 2-deck set. & nearly double the Copag TXHE decks. That's a lot for what appears to be basically a Copag PVC card printed with Cartamundi's "Casino" index font.

(Side Note: I completely forgot about Cartamundi owning Copag in the "Who Owns Who" section of the database... I've corrected that oversight. They purchased Copag in 2005)

I will admit though, while I'm not usually a fan of the "peek" indexes.... using only two & placing them on the opposite corners of the regular indexes (so the regular indexes are still in the standard locations) might be a decent idea that I could warm up to.

Question is.... does that make a PVC deck worth about $17.75 (USD) ?..... ouch! I do believe that would make 'em the most expensive PVC decks on the planet.

Move over Faded Spade, there's a new title holder.

 

[JMC9389]

Meh, the micro pips make it unplayable for me.

 

[Jake14mw]

Who peeks at the right hand side of their cards? So, you would have to retrain your self to peak at the right? That is a complete no go for me. If you are going to have a combo card like that, in my mind the peek would have to be in the standard place and the jumbo pip be on the right. Also, premium $ for Copag card stock? For me, nothing about this sounds good, but that is just my opinion, everyone has different likes. We will see. I love new card designs.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Who peeks at the right hand side of their cards? So, you would have to retrain your self to peak at the right? That is a complete no go for me. If you are going to have a combo card like that, in my mind the peek would have to be in the standard place and the jumbo pip be on the right. Also, premium $ for Copag card stock? For me, nothing about this sounds good, but that is just my opinion, everyone has different likes. We will see. I love new card designs.

If you think about it, it makes sense. For those who don't want to change, the regular pip is right where it always is. And for those who do, you learn to adjust and peek with your right hand instead of your left.

Meh, the micro pips make it unplayable for me.

How are they unplayable? The regular pip is right there the same as any ordinary deck. And the micro pip is where blank space normally is. Your choice, ignore the micro pip and play like regular, or adjust if you want to use the micro.

 

[JMC9389]

If you think about it, it makes sense. For those who don't want to change, the regular pip is right where it always is. And for those who do, you learn to adjust and peek with your right hand instead of your left.

How are they unplayable? The regular pip is right there the same as any ordinary deck. And the micro pip is where blank space normally is. Your choice, ignore the micro pip and play like regular, or adjust if you want to use the micro.

I've been told by more than one person today that I'm grumpy and snapping at people. I'm sorry if my response was a bit sharp tongued. I feel better now after eating something

It's not by any means unplayable, just odd and a little tilting is all. I would still consider buying a set up if the price was better, but almost $20 per deck plus shipping from Europe is going to be a bit too much!

 

[JMC9389]

I'm playing the Belgian Poker Challenge (all Belgian clubs united online).

7 tournies played (won 1 and 3th in the last one, 5 times ITM) and 18th in general ranking.
I received info about cards that were made by the Antwerp poker group

These are on new copag stock....deal was made direct with Cartamundi Belgium, I will receive the info of their contact.
Want to see if custom Cartamundi casino cards are possible (or even generic ones, in bulk pricing).

Warm Black
View attachment 575101

Thatch Green
View attachment 575102

Mulberry Wood
View attachment 575103

Bronzetone
View attachment 575104

15 EUR / deck...that's a LOT for 1 copag deck.
I'll order one to see what's up

more info here

I'm sure Cartamundi would make you custom decks at a particularly high MOQ. Looks like these guys had 2,000 decks made. 500 per color seems to be the minimum for them to entertain an order.

You know I'm in for lots if we can get some cards on Cartamundi casino stock with the casino font!

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I've been told by more than one person today that I'm grumpy and snapping at people. I'm sorry if my response was a bit sharp tongued. I feel better now after eating something

It's not by any means unplayable, just odd and a little tilting is all. I would still consider buying a set up if the price was better, but almost $20 per deck plus shipping from Europe is going to be a bit too much!

Not at all - don't worry about it. I was honestly and genuinely curious why you thought they were unplayable. BTW, I get told all the time by my wife that I "must be hungry" when I say stuff to her that she doesn't agree with. Everything does seem better on a full stomach!

 

[tabletalker7]

I get told all the time by my wife that I "must be hungry" when I say stuff to her that she doesn't agree with. Everything does seem better on a full stomach!

At least yours asks if you are hungry - mine just overfeeds me and I fall into a food coma on the couch.

 

[Dix]

I've been told by more than one person today that I'm grumpy and snapping at people.

Stop that... that's my gig.

At least yours asks if you are hungry - mine just overfeeds me and I fall into a food coma on the couch.

I'm in that exact same club.

I'm 6' & 160 lbs. I've been 6' & 160 since the day I hit that mark over 40 years ago... it never goes up, it never goes down.... but my wife insists she's going to "put some weight on me".

My father, who is now in his 80s, is exactly the same, so you think she'd realize it's a futile effort.... given the evidence.

 

[tabletalker7]

I'm 6' & 160 lbs.

Save it - I am 6 foot tall and I vaguely remember being that light when I was 12 years old. Someone needs to feed you.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Stop that... that's my gig.


I'm in that exact same club.

I'm 6' & 160 lbs. I've been 6' & 160 since the day I hit that mark over 40 years ago... it never goes up, it never goes down.... but my wife insists she's going to "put some weight on me".

My father, who is now in his 80s, is exactly the same, so you think she'd realize it's a futile effort.... given the evidence.

So do you watch what you eat, or eat and drink anything you want (including the bad stuff) and still stay the same weight? I always thought I would be thin forever. I'm a touch shorter than you. Was 125 when I finished high school. Slowly gained a little and was 145 when I met my current wife at 36. It's continued to be a gradual increase until one day a few years ago when I stepped on the scale and saw 189. Said to myself, if I hit 190, then 200 is next, so I lost 15 pounds. Now I just try to keep it close to 180. I'd love to be 165, but I'm not willing to do the work.

 

[Dix]

So do you watch what you eat...

I watch it all the way from the plate to just below my nose.

Yea, I p*ss everyone with weight issues off. Doesn't matter what or how much I eat.

My 1st wife was 5'-nothing & weighed about 85-lbs soaking wet. 8 years later she's up to 105, & of course, that was all my fault.

 

[Dix]

MODIANO ELEMENTS
​

Step One: A HUGE shout-out & thanks to @redeagle for getting out after the craziest storm path I've ever seen worm it's way around & over south Florida to shoot a set of these long forgotten cards up to the frozen northern wilderness. The man rocks!

As a result, we now know which of their card stocks Modiano used when they did printing for Guild.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/the-redneck-poker-card-database.52229/post-1001732

Specs are a match, & in the database: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

 

[Dix]

Bee "77" (Plastic - Made in Spain)
​

Kind of a boring update, but, what the h*ll....

Out of date, but can be found occasionally on eBay, these no different than the rest of USPC's Fournier/Bike Prestige/Spanish-made decks.

Added to the database: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

​