So it begins aka poker chip making quest (1 Viewer)

GianThaMan said:
I was thinking about adding something like this to my post, but yes, many compression molded chips don’t have very much (or any) clay in them. Regardless, I think it would be helpful to see how it turns out using some different types of clay along with those additives before going completely for plastic.
Click to expand...
Seems like they have much less clay than we would *think* they have, but still some. I will take copious notes on the journey and be posting here. Thank you @CrazyEddie for the thermo-info :) That is very useful and I will think on it as I go.
 
CrazyEddie said:
Also note that broadly speaking plastics come in two varieties: thermoplastic and thermosetting.

We're pretty sure that the clay chips made by TR King, Paulson, ASM, etc. all use thermosetting plastics. This means that they will soften and melt when heated and harden again when cooled (which thermoplastic plastics also do), but also if they are heated to a high enough temperature, under a high enough pressure, for the right length of time, then they will harden permanently and will not melt again after that.

When you go looking for the right combination of plastics and fillers (like barites and cotton and powdered metal and so forth) be sure to consider at what temperatures and pressure they will cure (harden permanently) and consider how you'll reach those temperatures and pressures.

Alternately, you might press your chips out of thermoplastic materials. Rather than hardening them permanently, you could heat them up enough for them to soften, then press them in your mold, and let them harden as they cool.
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There is zero plastic in any ASM/CPC chip.
 
Also, for the lathe, I'd highly recommend getting a bit that allows you to turn your chips to a set diameter. You could use something like this steady rest, but smaller:
Finished-steady-624x686.jpg
 
David, I appreciate that there are only so many details you're willing to divulge. Can you make any comments as to whether the zero-plastic statement also applies to historical formulas used by The Burt Company and Atlantic Standard Molding in the past?

I ask this because what research I've been able to do regarding the composition of poker chips throughout the ages led me to believe that clay composition chips containing clay and shellac gave way to clay composition chips containing clay and celluloid, and thence to other more modern plastics as time went on. Since Burt Co was the main producer of clay chips for quite a while, I'd assumed that this was true of their chips as well.

If that's wrong, I'd like to make sure I stop propagating this false notion.

Thanks.
 
David, thanks for the replies, and thanks for confirming my assumptions about TR King and Paulson.

For what it's worth, I'd formed my assumptions about plastic in chips in part based on this diagram I found in an overview of the history of poker chip materials and manufacturing:

1617220967828.png


Besides resin (i.e. plastic) being explicitly shown as one of the ingredients, the use of heaters to soften the material prior to punching blanks and later again prior to punching spots and holes suggested to me that chip production is largely plastic-like rather than clay-like. Clay, at least when used in making items like pottery, porcelain, and bricks, is soft when wet and firm when dry, requires water rather than heat to re-soften, and transforms to permanent hardness by being heated slowly without being under pressure. Whereas the chip-making process shown here uses material that softens with heat rather than water and is transformed to permanent hardness by being heated quickly under immense pressure - all of which are characteristics of plastic (some types of plastic, at any rate).

David, from pictures and descriptions that others have posted, the ASM/CPC chip-making process seems to be at least somewhat similar to this picture, in that sheets are made (and stacked and stored), then blanks punched from the sheets, then spots punched from the blanks, and eventually the final chip is produced in the mold under heat and pressure. I'd love to understand what kind of steps you go through to ensure that the material is at the right consistency at the right time. I understand you're under no obligation to provide any details, but I'm hopeful that you might and would be grateful if you did.
 
Interesting info all around!

Here are my hot stamping journey notes today:
PXL_20210331_210101722.jpg

PXL_20210331_210140369.jpg
PXL_20210331_210143550.jpg
PXL_20210331_210149567.jpg


I was sanding the center of these worn HS chips to be able to see the full stamp with flashing, depth of stamp etc. That was making the stamping surface concave and thus making some of the stamps incomplete. Also these are hand/manual stamped so that could be an additional issue.

Gonna have to let go of my narcissism and change the stamp so I can just stamp around the preexisting stamp to get a better idea of proper settings with this machine.
 
CrazyEddie said:
David, thanks for the replies, and thanks for confirming my assumptions about TR King and Paulson.

For what it's worth, I'd formed my assumptions about plastic in chips in part based on this diagram I found in an overview of the history of poker chip materials and manufacturing:

View attachment 667498

Besides resin (i.e. plastic) being explicitly shown as one of the ingredients, the use of heaters to soften the material prior to punching blanks and later again prior to punching spots and holes suggested to me that chip production is largely plastic-like rather than clay-like. Clay, at least when used in making items like pottery, porcelain, and bricks, is soft when wet and firm when dry, requires water rather than heat to re-soften, and transforms to permanent hardness by being heated slowly without being under pressure. Whereas the chip-making process shown here uses material that softens with heat rather than water and is transformed to permanent hardness by being heated quickly under immense pressure - all of which are characteristics of plastic (some types of plastic, at any rate).

David, from pictures and descriptions that others have posted, the ASM/CPC chip-making process seems to be at least somewhat similar to this picture, in that sheets are made (and stacked and stored), then blanks punched from the sheets, then spots punched from the blanks, and eventually the final chip is produced in the mold under heat and pressure. I'd love to understand what kind of steps you go through to ensure that the material is at the right consistency at the right time. I understand you're under no obligation to provide any details, but I'm hopeful that you might and would be grateful if you did.
Click to expand...
Even if I wanted to, my holding of a Nevada Gaming Licence prohibits me disclosing absolutely anything.

All I will say is that our process is not like described above. I believe that your process in that diagram is based on what USPC did from 1900-1950.
 
Grandmasturkey said:
Interesting info all around!

Here are my hot stamping journey notes today:
View attachment 667545
View attachment 667546View attachment 667547View attachment 667548

I was sanding the center of these worn HS chips to be able to see the full stamp with flashing, depth of stamp etc. That was making the stamping surface concave and thus making some of the stamps incomplete. Also these are hand/manual stamped so that could be an additional issue.

Gonna have to let go of my narcissism and change the stamp so I can just stamp around the preexisting stamp to get a better idea of proper settings with this machine.
Click to expand...

There is also likely some warping of the chip from having the original stamp in the first place. I'm sure it would look much more consistent if you were lucky enough to start off with clean and level compressed clay blanks.
 
PXL_20210404_013121390.jpg
IMG_20210403_203206_01.jpg

Getting decent at hot stamping. This is 105C for 3 seconds.

Got a bunch of fillers and some clay, gonna work on converting the TRK formula to percentages.

Then will try and do some experimentation and posting. I have a little conch steel mold I can use in my hydraulic press to try out different formulations. Waiting for a quote for a textured no mold plate I had designed by CAD man.


untitled.79.jpg


Hopefully it won't be tooooo spendy. I'm thinking about adding a small line around the outer edge a la THC. but that's TBD.
 
Do you have a way to heat the mold plate? Without heat, I dont think youre going to get a solid end product.
 
Who is an engineer up in here that can lead me to thermoplastics melting point chart OR just tell me what thermoplastics have lower melting points...
 
Here's a selection of critical temperatures (melting point, softening point, glass transition temperature) for a selection of plastics (polypropylene, polyethylene of various densities, PTFE aka Teflon, polyester, and nylon):

https://www.industrialnetting.com/temperature-guidelines.html

Different formulations of any particular product can affect these temperatures, i.e. if you order a batch of nylon from one supplier and a different batch of nylon from a different supplier, you may find that they have different additives and accordingly melt at different temperatures. So be sure to ask your potential suppliers for the full specifications of their products!
 
It's not much, but it's progress. Some solid items from the press today.

PXL_20210411_235006154.jpg
PXL_20210411_235012028.jpg
PXL_20210411_235020945.jpg



Plans now include waiting for more thermoplastics to arrive. Going to the clay store tomorrow to discuss the project with a clay expert. Waiting for plates that I ordered to arrive (they said two weeks)! And trying a bunch of other things over the next few days/weeks/months/probably years!
 
Extraordinary! I'd love to know more about the materials and equipment you used here.
 
More solid items from the press with some drunken hot stamping
PXL_20210414_235939358.jpg


Okay the hot stamping wasn't really drunken but it looks like it was doesn't it????

These are a nice bright white but don't have the best texture or right "chalkiness" still awaiting some supplies.

I am am also (Im)patiently waiting for my poker chip mold to arrive, hopefully next week?! Then I will start to play around with weight and continue to work on materials.

The clay store was fruitless save for the fact that there's no way, at least for the chips I've been experimenting on, that there could be any type of clay in them that goes into a kiln. They just melt at too low of a temperature, meaning that the assumption that it is a mix of polymers, fillers and perhaps some polymer clay is likely gonna be the way I go with my chips.

I ordered a custom hot stamp from owosso thanks to everyone for their advice. This was inspired by some chips I saw on here that before I zoomed in on the picture I thought was a scary tree but then wasnt. This is the die:

spooky_tree_haunted_casino.png


What's a haunted casino? I don't really know. It sounded right.

Anyways thought I'd give everyone an update! More to come soon......
 
BIG UPDATE

I know I've been radio silent for a while but that is because I've been waiting for all my materials and my mold.

The mold is coming!!!!!! Mold pron:
20210517_124727.jpg


20210517_124723.jpg

So once this baby comes to my house planning to try and get the weight and materials right and see what happens :)

Will be posting my results OBVIOUSLY
 

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