Play A Hand With Me 2/2/5 PLO (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Martino]

Any villain reads? Does he bluff rivers or with blockers in particular?

Just that my time with him has shown him to be a competent, thinking player

 

[Kain8]

Hero bets $45
Button raises to $200

 

[Hornet]

I fold. I think the villain’s range is pretty limited. Boat, maybe trips, or perhaps he is bluffing with blockers. You basically only have a bluff catcher at this point. And I’d be thinking, why didn’t I just check-call the river.

 

[Frogzilla]

I fold. I think the villain’s range is pretty limited. Boat, maybe trips, or perhaps he is bluffing with blockers. You basically only have a bluff catcher at this point. And I’d be thinking, why didn’t I just check-call the river.

Serious question....what’s a good bluffing hand here, what’s the relevant blocker. Hard to find many natural ones that wouldn’t just call instead

I fold

 

[Hornet]

Serious question....what’s a good bluffing hand here, what’s the relevant blocker. Hard to find many natural ones that wouldn’t just call instead

I fold

I’ve seen people do it in this spot with something like KJxx. Or get frisky with an 8. But they are usually very aggressive players and it doesn’t sound like that fits villain’s profile.

 

[Shaggy]

Wow... what a spot. This feels like he either rivered the boat (pocket 8's) or a total bluff. I probably fold here... depending on player reads.

 

[Anthony Martino]

PREFLOP ACTION

Button is $5 Rock/Straddle
SB Folds
Hero Limps with for $5
Other Players Fold
Button raises to $20 and has Hero covered (over $800)
Hero calls

REASONING

Hero is OOP and relatively deep-stacked. If stacks were more shallow it's ok to repot here and get it in or create an SPR of 1:1 where your flop decision is automatic.

While I wouldn't classify our hand as "shitty Aces", they certainly aren't premium Aces either. The A3 and the 37 are connected to make some straights, but will rarely make the nuts.

Our opponent is competent enough that if we repot him he'll likely know half our hand, allowing him to have not only a positional advantage on us postflop while deepstacked, but also an informational one. By calling we keep our own hand range wider, denying our opponent the informational advantage we'd provide if we reraise here.

FLOP ACTION

pot $40



Hero checks
Button bets $25
Hero calls $25

REASONING

This is a fantastic flop for Hero. Villain's raising range is unlikely to include many 2xxx or 44xx combinations. There's no flush draws to be concerned with and Heros hand is extremely under-repped.

Hero doesn't have to be concerned about Villain making a two pair to beat his naked Aces, as Hero now has the best two pair combo possible. There's little value in raising as we want to keep Villain in at this point, and a raise is most likely just going to blow him off bluffs or off hands he may incorrectly perceive as being ahead (like JJ, QQ or KK). Provided Villain is behind (which is the majority of the time in this spot) his only wins are:

runner-runner flush
runner-runner trips if he didn't pair any card on the flop
2 outs if he holds a pair
a straight (but we have a good chunk of the blockers to the straights that connect with this flop


TURN ACTION

pot: $90



Hero checks
Button checks

REASONING

Barring our opponent having just outdrawn us with a KKxx holding, this turn card isn't terrible. It does present the possibility of our opponent going runner-runner flush on us in this spot, but we're still going to exercise pot control and check it back.

RIVER ACTION

pot: $90



Hero bets $45

REASONING

Villains check on the turn means he's likely trying to pot control and we have the best hand, if we check he will probably be checking behind. So decided to go for some value here, in case he has a hand with enough showdown value that he can call our bet.

RIVER ACTION PART II

pot: $90



Hero bets $45
Button raises to $200
Hero thinks to himself "well fuck!"

Hero ponders this situation for awhile before settling on a fold.

REASONING

Hero's line here looks like he may have flopped the trips. Check-call flop, both check turn and then Hero leads river to try and get value. Hero could conceivably have limp-called preflop with a hand like

I believe Villain is a thinking player. The way I played this hand looks like I like my hand and want action, I could be full here. If Villain believes this is the case, and still raises, he is expecting me to call. If he wants me to call, then I can only assume that he has a full house he desires to profit off of. He could have a hand with a deuce in it, although I'd weigh him more heavily towards a hand like KKxx or maybe T988 double suited, etc.

People don't bluff nearly as much as you think they do in poker, and I just felt like I was beat here and opted to lay it down. I could've check-called and would've called a full pot bet of $90 in this spot, figuring I was good. But given his turn check-back I felt like he was going to check-behind the river the majority of the time, and believed I was ahead.

 

[grebe]

Man, I think I would have called here, the turn check back was just so weak from his end. The 8 should really be a blank....unless he had 88...but he shouldnt have that, right? GAWD, PLO is so tough!

 

[Anthony Martino]

Man, I think I would have called here, the turn check back was just so weak from his end. The 8 should really be a blank....unless he had 88...but he shouldnt have that, right? GAWD, PLO is so tough!

If he has KKxx his turn check makes sense. If he has T988 the same on the turn, given I check-called flop

 

[Frogzilla]

I’m pretty sure my stack was in by the flop tho. Different styles

(And I’d only be OOP 2 streets instead of 4)

 

[Anthony Martino]

I’m pretty sure my stack was in by the flop tho. Different styles

(And I’d only be OOP 2 streets instead of 4)

It's doubtful my opponent is getting stacks in on the flop $800 effective, if he is not ahead of my Aces

I want to keep his bluffs in, as they are drawing virtually dead, and don't want to stack off when behind

 

[moose]

PREFLOP ACTION

Button is $5 Rock/Straddle
SB Folds
Hero Limps with for $5
Other Players Fold
Button raises to $20 and has Hero covered (over $800)
Hero calls

REASONING

Hero is OOP and relatively deep-stacked. If stacks were more shallow it's ok to repot here and get it in or create an SPR of 1:1 where your flop decision is automatic.

While I wouldn't classify our hand as "shitty Aces", they certainly aren't premium Aces either. The A3 and the 37 are connected to make some straights, but will rarely make the nuts.

Our opponent is competent enough that if we repot him he'll likely know half our hand, allowing him to have not only a positional advantage on us postflop while deepstacked, but also an informational one. By calling we keep our own hand range wider, denying our opponent the informational advantage we'd provide if we reraise here.

FLOP ACTION

pot $40



Hero checks
Button bets $25
Hero calls $25

REASONING

This is a fantastic flop for Hero. Villain's raising range is unlikely to include many 2xxx or 44xx combinations. There's no flush draws to be concerned with and Heros hand is extremely under-repped.

Hero doesn't have to be concerned about Villain making a two pair to beat his naked Aces, as Hero now has the best two pair combo possible. There's little value in raising as we want to keep Villain in at this point, and a raise is most likely just going to blow him off bluffs or off hands he may incorrectly perceive as being ahead (like JJ, QQ or KK). Provided Villain is behind (which is the majority of the time in this spot) his only wins are:

runner-runner flush
runner-runner trips if he didn't pair any card on the flop
2 outs if he holds a pair
a straight (but we have a good chunk of the blockers to the straights that connect with this flop


TURN ACTION

pot: $90



Hero checks
Button checks

REASONING

Barring our opponent having just outdrawn us with a KKxx holding, this turn card isn't terrible. It does present the possibility of our opponent going runner-runner flush on us in this spot, but we're still going to exercise pot control and check it back.

RIVER ACTION

pot: $90



Hero bets $45

REASONING

Villains check on the turn means he's likely trying to pot control and we have the best hand, if we check he will probably be checking behind. So decided to go for some value here, in case he has a hand with enough showdown value that he can call our bet.

RIVER ACTION PART II

pot: $90



Hero bets $45
Button raises to $200
Hero thinks to himself "well fuck!"

Hero ponders this situation for awhile before settling on a fold.

REASONING

Hero's line here looks like he may have flopped the trips. Check-call flop, both check turn and then Hero leads river to try and get value. Hero could conceivably have limp-called preflop with a hand like

I believe Villain is a thinking player. The way I played this hand looks like I like my hand and want action, I could be full here. If Villain believes this is the case, and still raises, he is expecting me to call. If he wants me to call, then I can only assume that he has a full house he desires to profit off of. He could have a hand with a deuce in it, although I'd weigh him more heavily towards a hand like KKxx or maybe T988 double suited, etc.

People don't bluff nearly as much as you think they do in poker, and I just felt like I was beat here and opted to lay it down. I could've check-called and would've called a full pot bet of $90 in this spot, figuring I was good. But given his turn check-back I felt like he was going to check-behind the river the majority of the time, and believed I was ahead.

I don't think your line of check/call flop, check turn, lead river shows someone trying to get value. Trips is incredibly vulnerable in Omaha. How can checking represent that you have trips? Most would lead for value because trips are so vulnerable to back door flushes, straights, turned boats etc. Yes it could represent a boat but nut boat on flop would be fours full, again who would realistically try and check such a weak boat for value?

I think if you lead flop and lead turn, you show more strength for the same amount invested and can feel better about the laydown if raised at any point and check fold river if called on flop/turn.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I don't think your line of check/call flop, check turn, lead river shows someone trying to get value. Trips is incredibly vulnerable in Omaha. How can checking represent that you have trips? Most would lead for value because trips are so vulnerable to back door flushes, straights, turned boats etc. Yes it could represent a boat but nut boat on flop would be fours full, again who would realistically try and check such a weak boat for value?

I think if you lead flop and lead turn, you show more strength for the same amount invested and can feel better about the laydown if raised at any point and check fold river if called on flop/turn.

Because this is a headsup pot, so ranges are wider and weaker hands less vulnerable than multiway

 

[Tarheel4Life]

PREFLOP ACTION

Button is $5 Rock/Straddle
SB Folds
Hero Limps with for $5
Other Players Fold
Button raises to $20 and has Hero covered (over $800)
Hero calls

REASONING

Hero is OOP and relatively deep-stacked. If stacks were more shallow it's ok to repot here and get it in or create an SPR of 1:1 where your flop decision is automatic.

While I wouldn't classify our hand as "shitty Aces", they certainly aren't premium Aces either. The A3 and the 37 are connected to make some straights, but will rarely make the nuts.

Our opponent is competent enough that if we repot him he'll likely know half our hand, allowing him to have not only a positional advantage on us postflop while deepstacked, but also an informational one. By calling we keep our own hand range wider, denying our opponent the informational advantage we'd provide if we reraise here.

FLOP ACTION

pot $40



Hero checks
Button bets $25
Hero calls $25

REASONING

This is a fantastic flop for Hero. Villain's raising range is unlikely to include many 2xxx or 44xx combinations. There's no flush draws to be concerned with and Heros hand is extremely under-repped.

Hero doesn't have to be concerned about Villain making a two pair to beat his naked Aces, as Hero now has the best two pair combo possible. There's little value in raising as we want to keep Villain in at this point, and a raise is most likely just going to blow him off bluffs or off hands he may incorrectly perceive as being ahead (like JJ, QQ or KK). Provided Villain is behind (which is the majority of the time in this spot) his only wins are:

runner-runner flush
runner-runner trips if he didn't pair any card on the flop
2 outs if he holds a pair
a straight (but we have a good chunk of the blockers to the straights that connect with this flop


TURN ACTION

pot: $90



Hero checks
Button checks

REASONING

Barring our opponent having just outdrawn us with a KKxx holding, this turn card isn't terrible. It does present the possibility of our opponent going runner-runner flush on us in this spot, but we're still going to exercise pot control and check it back.

RIVER ACTION

pot: $90



Hero bets $45

REASONING

Villains check on the turn means he's likely trying to pot control and we have the best hand, if we check he will probably be checking behind. So decided to go for some value here, in case he has a hand with enough showdown value that he can call our bet.

RIVER ACTION PART II

pot: $90



Hero bets $45
Button raises to $200
Hero ???

That’s why we bet the turn.

 

[Tarheel4Life]

I don't think your line of check/call flop, check turn, lead river shows someone trying to get value. Trips is incredibly vulnerable in Omaha. How can checking represent that you have trips? Most would lead for value because trips are so vulnerable to back door flushes, straights, turned boats etc. Yes it could represent a boat but nut boat on flop would be fours full, again who would realistically try and check such a weak boat for value?

I think if you lead flop and lead turn, you show more strength for the same amount invested and can feel better about the laydown if raised at any point and check fold river if called on flop/turn.

Yes, this.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Did you find out what he was holding?

 

[Anthony Martino]

Did you find out what he was holding?

 

[Anthony Martino]

Yes, this.

If I flopped trips headsup against the button straddler/raiser on a 422 flop, I'm not overly concerned about being up against a better hand. It's not like I'm playing multiway and the flop contains cards likely to have hit my opponents ranges such as a board like JJ8 or something.

So my having 2xxx in this spot I'd likely play the same way, as my opponent most likely has 2 outs or needs runner-runner. I don't want to blow them off hands they may potentially believe have value (or try to bluff with) by betting/raising them and letting them get away from their hands.

 

[JustinInMN]

I do whatever my legal counsel tells me to.

Scoop the pot and the murder all the chips?

Okay,

So I am late to the party, but here's how I see it.

I think the decision is close pre, This is not premium aces, but more than good enough to try and isolate the button. Plus holding two of the aces, it's really hard to imagine there is much left for those waiting to act to stick in a 3-bet with any hand that would worry us a great deal as hero. So I would lean toward opening from the BB here to try and isolate the button-straddle. Limping is probably okay too, but in a multi way pot, we are going to have to play careful absent a smash.

Now as played, hero got the best of both worlds because no one else wanted to limp anyway, and the button is putting an iso play on hero. I think as played, nothing to do but call here. Stacks are way too deep to go war without a premium holding. Hero has a good holding, yet still OOP. Calling is fine.

This is a good flop unless villain can raise hands containing 2xxx pre. But still OOP so tough to maximize the value of this hand. I feel a check call here to give villian a chance to bet his KKxx and QQxx sort of holdings. I do appreciate we have the best two-pair possible for the remainder of the hand and it's tough to be outdrawn, still it seems too sick a spot if we get 3-bet here, so I am not sure I would risk the raise.

The turn isn't great news because KKxx does represent a hunk of what we hoped villain has. I think I am just playing this to station now, or I am going to check-raise and fold to a 3-bet. But mainly, I think check-call turn, check call river.

But given his turn check-back I felt like he was going to check-behind the river the majority of the time, and believed I was ahead.

I think I will disagree here, I think Villain checking behind the turn is actually really polarizing to me. It's either super nutty (kings full or maybe a random deuces full), or super weak (QQxx, straight connectors, etc...). I think I would rate our holding to be at least of medium strength, I think check-call is in order here for sure on the river, betting seems too risky on that particular turn for how we are ranging villain. The king in particular, just makes it hard to get paid by anything weaker except for AKxx or KQxx type hands, and how many of those are betting the flop? Maybe some if villain is just betting 100% when checked to. But on the river QQxx type hands aren't going to find a call if hero bets except specifically QQKx, we're really going for too slim of a value range here to risk the downside of facing a raise.

But given hero bet the river and got raised, I do understand the reasoning for the river laydown as played. It's one thing for villain to bet when checked-to three times, it's another thing to raise a donk-bet on the end, I am with Anthony, players bluff, but not a lot, and I don't see the raising a donk-bet bluff live very often where I would assume AA is still good. But again for nearly the same money, could have check-called.

 

[JustinInMN]

One afterthought, one reason this COULD be a bluff is that from Villain's perspective, hero is almost NEVER going to have a 2, and also that Hero hasn't shown any aggression in the hand until the river, so perhaps villain is turning a miss into a bluff knowing hero doesn't have a lot of nutty hands here, except maybe KKxx.

That said, I just don't think even better players have a "balanced" strategy to mix bluffs and value facing donk bets on the river. I would really have to know a player well to make this assumption, it's probably as Anthony realized at the end, the river raise is just never a bluff, villain likely make a full somewhere along the way, including top full house.