PAHWM: Attractive Hero has a Draw at the final table (1 Viewer)

[SixSpeedFury]

Spoiler: BB also has KT for a chop

 

[FestiveKnight]

percentage of the starting bank

Only starting bank, or total bank? Meaning, what about rebuys?

 

[Thomacetti]

Back to Hero. Pot is now 22.5 BB with an all-in.


I call. Roast me please.

This is the reason why you just fold the hand pre...things get out of hand with a marginal holding (espec. since you are OOP).

Acceptable is that you raise 2 BB and fold to any 3-bet (pre) or continuation bet (post flop) if you don't hit the flop....but it's not advised imho.

Unless you are a vlogger...they would shove pre because of firetrucks

 

[LotsOfChips]

if a guy snaps on a nut-changing river card, he’s probably bluffing

Man, I so wish that were true. In most of the games I play, 95% of the time he just drew to the nuts. I've learned this by calling what logically appears to be a bluff and losing more times than I can remember.

This goes even more so online.

 

[shorticus]

Hero has first to act.
Hero raises to 3 BB. I don't mind facing an all-in from the tiny stack SB.

Word of advice for specific scenarios like this. If you are worried about short stack shoving, you should always make your raise enough so that his shove does not reopen the betting. If you are choosing to raise, you should raise to 6BB so that in this scenario if CO had simply called and button shoves, once you complete the bet, he cannot decide to jam in that spot.

...anyways, carry on lol

 

[ChipFinderSK]

Did not read any posts (or the OP in full), but I’ll leave this here:

 

[Thomacetti]

Did not read any posts (or the OP in full), but I’ll leave this here:

View attachment 1597847

Live poker is rigged....

 

[chippitydoodah]

How many years have you been waiting to find a post to use this picture in?

 

[ChipFinderSK]

View attachment 1597859
How many years have you been waiting to find a post to use this picture in?

Approx. 2.5 months

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

If you have QJ, are you calling a shove?

I like calling the turn, but only when I know the nuts is hitting the river. As played, I probably call 18.5BB. if I brick out, I have 57BB left, which is enough to work with.



If one of your opponents had AdXd, they are likely not calling unless it was something like AdQd. I'd bet half my stack and see if I could get two callers, but hope I get raised by a set of queens.

Bet 25-30BB.

I am not calling a shove with QJ. That's why I think its a good target, I don't see sets checking on the flop or calling the turn bet. Yeah my thoughts as well, very playable stack after Turn.
--------------------------

Ante is 0.1 BB from everyone.
SB posts 0.5
BB posts 1.0
Pot 2 BB
Hero has first to act.
Hero raises to 3 BB.
CO raises to 7.5 BB.
BU Folds
SB calls All-in for 4 BB. No bounty considered.
BB calls 7.5 BB.
Hero calls 7.5 BB
Pot 27 BB. So heading to the flop with an all-in and two mid stacks

FLOP:
SB ALLIN
BB (142 BB) - Checks.
Hero UTG (75 BB) - Checks.
CO (108 BB) - Checks.

Pot 27 BB, 16.5 in main 10.5 in side.
SB ALLIN
BB (142 BB) - Checks.
Hero UTG (75 BB) - Checks.

CO (108 BB) - Bets 18.5 BB.
BB (142 BB) - Calls 18.5 BB.
Hero (75 BB) - Calls 18.5 BB.

POT - Main 10.5 Side 72 BB, total 82.5
RIVER:
Hero now has the nuts, and as played I doubt someone was coming along with KT without the accompanying flush draw. Some of you may have been expecting this since I decided to put the hand up, but I still want to figure out how to get the most value.

BB (123 BB) - Checks. My thoughts were Axdd bricks out. I could see Js, Qs, and maybe QJ checking here OOP in a bloated pot.
HERO (56 BB) - Shoves 56 BB into 82.5 BB.

I don't hate this, in fact I prefer it to the smaller half stack bets I see here. My thoughts were that I was planning on doing the same with my missed draws and I wanted to make the max from the two pairs. I think I certainly lost some value in this specific scenario but I think I make some money from the top of their ranges. I want it to look like I'm leveraging a fold, not squeezing out value. Flush draws are folding to anything, I don't see a Jx calling here, I am aiming to the baby straight, two pairs, weirdly played sets. Knowing these players I don't think they're going to bluff into us, so I had to take the initiative. My main focus was trying to put them in a tough spot, and I thought the 20 BB bet was just too small, 1/4 of the pot. Maybe one of them shoves over but I'd rather attempt to get it all.

Both fold, CO snap folds but BB tanks for a while and bemoans my decision. Seemed very close to a call, mentioned he was blocking the straight and didn't have diamonds.

CO had

BB had

Neither had a flush draw. Against these hands, I would hope the Q would call 20 or 30 like some mentioned but I see AQ calling if they didn't have the .


I appreciate the thoughts from everyone, definitely going to be thinking about it. Some of it may be just built up muscle memory versus these guys, plus the fact that I suck at poker. Got extra lucky on this one and had an opportunity. Many other spots in the tournament were interesting but few had the stakes that this one did.

 

[FestiveKnight]

CO (108 BB) - Checks. I see AA continuing to bet, QJ bets to deny diamonds and to isolate the all-in. Check may mean air, may mean Axdd, unsure.

I’m the “League owner” (CO) here. Interesting to see what folks have to say, I honestly think it’s hard to assess the hand because the check here from here (quoted) is quite awful. And I lost so much for it. I think I needed to make it in the range of 12-15 bb to signal I was interested in continuing to build the pop, deny equity to hands looking for draws, etc. Instead I let a free card come and completely gave up any image of my hand’s strength.

I think you don’t see this set of hands in these spots take these actions very often lol. This is back alley Saturday afternoon soccer, not no damn D1 practice lol. Thats all to say, thanks all who chimed in on @NotRealNameNoSir’s thread but I think the compounding mistakes from each player in the hand are massive and create a very difficult to analyze scenario.

Not that we shouldn’t be thoughtful about our play when being ourselves and playing with other, relative casuals, but ya, I think the actions BB and I took are weird and make it hard to assess your own.

 

[MC_CPA]

Nice to see that me jamming turn wouldve got the other two guys to fold, I know this is results oriented and meaningless but thats how I roll.

 

[WedgeRock]

@FestiveKnight three bet pre with AT and bet 2/3s pot on the turn with a gutter... Noted.

What did SB have?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

@FestiveKnight three bet pre with AT and bet 2/3s pot on the turn with a gutter... Noted.

What did SB have?

 

[WedgeRock]

Scoop!

 

[Frogzilla]

Boo @ the nits LOL

I'd open for 2.5 so you don't risk reopening the betting if SB shoves, and you overall risk just a little less vs. opening for 3. As played you certainly call the 3bet, but need to proceed cautiously against the two players covering you. Flop is fine as played, as well as the turn check. Would CO really bet 18.5 into a 10.5 sidepot here with air, given to win the full pot he needs to win at least against SB in showdown? I'm calling and looking for a diamond that doesn't pair the board (going busto if someone gets the nut flush here) or the straight.

all of this is what I was thinking. Easy open, and size up to 2.6 so that it doesn’t reopen. Check call flop and turn.

River this is THE #1 best hand to jam. The other KT make better traps sometimes since unblocking bricked flush but go for it. TT black is good bluff. You don’t have to have many combos that jam here. But jam this one.


My thoughts on other players

SB: fold pre

BB: 4 bet or fold pre, turn spot is annoying, river fold is good.

CO: good pre, flop, river…check turn, you dont win much if bluff gets through (still have to fend against SB) and don’t have to bluff Ace high and don’t really wanna be playing huge pot against BB if ace lands on river and definitely don’t want to get pushed off gutter

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

all of this is what I was thinking. Easy open, and size up to 2.6 so that it doesn’t reopen. Check call flop and turn.

River this is THE #1 best hand to jam. The other KT make better traps sometimes since unblocking bricked flush but go for it. TT black is good bluff. You don’t have to have many combos that jam here. But jam this one.


My thoughts on other players

SB: fold pre

BB: 4 bet or fold pre, turn spot is annoying, river fold is good.

CO: good pre, flop, river…check turn, you dont win much if bluff gets through (still have to fend against SB) and don’t have to bluff Ace high and don’t really wanna be playing huge pot against BB if ace lands on river and definitely don’t want to get pushed off gutter

Hot damn! Glad I have more people in the 'play the hand' camp.

 

[mipevi]

I think it's clear by now that only the attractive players know to open here.

 

[JustinInMN]

Fun thread, I have comments on a lot of notes.

CO (115 BB) - League owner. Competent player that gets momentum. Will stab but ICM aware and wants to win the bracelet to save on shipping costs

This made me lol

Ante is 0.1 BB from everyone.
SB posts 0.5
BB posts 1.0
Pot 2 BB
Hero has first to act.
ACTION?

Old school antes, respect.

I am surprised how many posters advocate for folding pre. I have no problem with a 2.5bb-3bb open here just to see if you can induce a shove from a small stack. The only real downside to this is you have the one villian that can break you on the left and that's really bad news if he gets involved.

But with a stack over 80bb, you can certainly afford a speculative open here, just play cautiously against the big stack.

Hero raises to 3 BB. I don't mind facing an all-in from the tiny stack SB.
CO raises to 7.5 BB. I've seen this before. I'll type what I think he's thinking but who knows if I was right: he believes I'm opening wider because of the short stacks, I had raised quite a few times and was chipping up a bit.

Okay I would normally snap fold this to the bb reraise, but....

FLOP:
SB ALLIN
BB (142 BB) - Checks
Hero UTG (75 BB)
ACTION?

You are getting 4:1 on your money with one player all it. Not ideal to have stuck 7.5 BB in this pot, but this is a good situation.

Hero UTG (75 BB) - Checks. I have lots of possible equity and the other 2 had checked it down before. We were still 75 BB effective, but a bet OOP puts me in a more uncomfortable spot.

I agree, you are in full pot control mode now since the big stack is involved. If you get the chance to check and draw, you do that all day.

CO (108 BB) - Bets 18.5 BB. This was semi-expected but didn't help me too much. He's a good player and would do this with air or in an attempt to build a pot. I wasn't worried about this but was considering raising to make sure I realize my equity and using the ICM pressure, but I didn't have much time to think before
BB (142 BB) - Calls 18.5 BB. This was surprising. Decent side pot, all-in, an unknown acting behind him to close action. I was wary. This was much scarier than the original bet, I thought I would be flipping or ahead of the CO but this was odd. Sure, he could be doing this with a J thinking the same way I did about the CO, or with Axdd, but I reduce the combos of those with the KT. May just be a misstep or may have me dominated, but this changed my thought process and gave me pause. Better price but two decent callers and one of my draws may be dead with murderous reverse implied odds.

Pot: 16.5 in main, side is now 47.5 BB
Hero (75 BB) - ACTION?

This was the turn, I probably would fold here, but it's tough. But 16.5bb represents more than 20% of hero's stack here with one card to come. Even with a "good" price of 3:1 given we expect to have 15 outs, the icm implications here tip this to a fold for me.

POT - Main 10.5 Side 72 BB, total 82.5
RIVER:
Hero now has the nuts, and as played I doubt someone was coming along with KT without the accompanying flush draw. Some of you may have been expecting this since I decided to put the hand up, but I still want to figure out how to get the most value.

Bingo. Well hero caught the best card after calling. With 60-something big blinds in hand, I am probably going to bet 10-15bb only and just try to get a crying call from good one pair or two pair hands. Shoving just pushes the calling threshold too high, players may not even call off with a set here.

15bb I think is a sizing that puts some doubt in villian's mind that it's a value bet.

Great hand, thanks for sharing.

 

[Taghkanic]

If it were a cash hand, I’m snap shoving the river, hoping to make it look bluffy (like I missed my flush draw, say). If I "only" get paid even ~30% of the time it’s well worth it. And that is cash directly in my pocket.

In a tournament, every extra chip counts, especially on the final table. Winning the hand does not mean you win the tourney. So while it would of course be nice to stack multiple people, I’d just make a small bet that can get called, and even may look weak. Squeezing out any extra value is a huge plus in a tournament. Maybe even induce a shove over you. I’d bet something like 16-20BB. Even if it only gets one caller, that is not chickenfeed and a big extra ICM boost on top of the rest of the pot. If someone shoves over it, even better natch.