Need help with a poker couple that's destroying my games (1 Viewer)

Years ago I had a couple that played in my game. Nobody ever accused them of cheating. However it felt like they did soft play each other when mixed up in hands. The difference was it was rare that they ever made any money. They hated mixed games so they stopped coming and the perceived problem just went away.
 
I like the idea of 2 different levels and stakes. Now I just need to build the poker player base to get to two tables maybe 6-7 handed each.


When I started running 2 tables for different player types, I was down to 6-7 handed but the advertisement (email) about the two tables and expectations for each (one max buy, one uncapped, etc) it was incredibly easy to fill up two tables. All the folks that abandoned my game became interested again. You might experience a similar boom as well.
 
I get about 10-15 people and I'll split to 2 tables when I have 13. But lately with all the dropouts, I am getting 8-10 only.

We draw for seats so it is random where they sit. The complaints center around how they are in a lot of pots together with a lone raiser. And we all know it is harder to win against a few opponents versus heads up.

I also understand that fish play bad and will eventually give up because of losses. But I think the fish will survive longer if the losses are gradual with an occasional lucky win night. Right now at my weekly and monthly game, they are losing 2-3 buyins every time. It's like killing the goose that lays the golden egg kinda thingy if you dont mind the mixed analogies.

NiceShot - where are you located in California? My game is in San Jose. I kinda wanted to do the different game level events but since players at games have become scarce, it ends up to be a similar makeup at all 3 games. This couple loves to win and they are winning players at all 3 of my games. I was thinking about talking to them that they might've outgrown our games and they should play higher stakes and competition at casinos or other home games. And maybe I'll invite them occasionally to the higher level game.

Thanks for all the great responses so far.


This is how my poker life looks. We have a game every 6-8 weeks with tough players (bergs, guinness, malaka, jbutler, gopherblue, jose rios, snoop todd, jimulacrum, etc). We play .25/.50 with a $125 / half biggest stack max buy-in. Game gets deep late night. Plays as big or bigger than 2/5nl at foxwoods most nights. Everyone in this game is probably the best player in their own home game. I'm certainly in the bottom quartile in this game (unless butler and courage are in town), and the best player in my weekly game.

We have a weekly game that is .05/.10 blinds, $20 is the typical buy-in, though it is uncapped. I am known to buy into this game for up to $200, but most stop after 2-3 $20 buy-ins. The average salary is much lower in this game than the one I mentioned above. The money matters more to the people in it, even though it is lower stakes. But it is a fun game, and sized appropriately for the people who play in it. Even though $40-60 matters to the players in this game, it is sized where people can afford it. We play a lot of high variance games (Big O, SOHE, etc), and I play like a spew tard, so that helps keep people from getting too run over, but the least experienced players are certainly losing overall. This game has been running for years.

The trick is to balance the game such that people enjoy playing together, and that is it sized to be sustainable. If you're playing just to make money, and the stakes are meaningful to the players, you're gonna need an influx of new players as moose suggested.
 
When I started running 2 tables for different player types, I was down to 6-7 handed but the advertisement (email) about the two tables and expectations for each (one max buy, one uncapped, etc) it was incredibly easy to fill up two tables. All the folks that abandoned my game became interested again. You might experience a similar boom as well.

This is an especially great idea if you have some flex players willing to play at either game. Guinness' games are always a good time.
 
What would be great for the OP is to somehow schedule a special game with them and some of PCFs very best sharks...and kick the living crap out of them. I'm sure a few of us have tried to pass ourselves off as complete fish...still true for me.
 
1) Jack Effel (TD for the WSOP) has said he will not start known couples at the same table. Most "random" seating is already designed to place couples at separate tables anyway as couples tend to buy in at very close to the same time, and tables are filled evenly. But that's tournaments, not cash games.

2) In my games ($20 tournaments), I have made it very clear that table assignments are not 100% random (though position at the table is). We have 2-3 tables each night, and there is no question as to which table is the "kiddie" table. This keeps the fish from getting blown out of the water every game. There is enough randomness that a great player may start at the kiddie table, or one of the little-leaguers will get called up to the majors (complex spreadsheet, love to show it to people, but it's done in a "Beautiful Mind" sort of thinking, so it make little sense without a guided tour or an equally deranged mind). The results: The best players don't sweep constantly - and I have interesting stats to show for that as well.

3) One tab of the spreadsheet identifies "partners". A friend inviting a friend counts as a partner, as does a married couple. Invite a 2nd or third friend, and you will all be classified as partners. The spreadsheet then analyses starting position, rebuys, and finishing positions of partners, and had identified "collusion". Collusion is in quotes, because it might not be actual collusion. Anyone that has played against Mrs. Zombie and I know that Mrs. Zombie is the better player, but heads-up, she has an extremely difficult time trying to defeat me. I taught her how to play. I know her game, her ticks, her mannerisms. I suspect other couples are quite similar, so I won't call collusion unless it is undeniable (which happened once, because they didn't know it was illegal).

4) I have lost about a half-dozen players because "the game got too serious". I find that sad, because the game ran for about 5-6 years, then I met some new players, invited them and they increased the difficulty. Mind you, there have always been a couple of great players. Some players are great, and yet, everybody loves them - so winning or losing isn't the real issue.

I know tournaments aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I've found less-skilled players prefer to not lose money on every hand. Pay your money, have a night of fun. You might cash, but probably not. The problem, is that once players drop out, you may never get them back (I haven't been able to, because the good players elevate the games of the mediocre).

I would simply stop inviting your power couple to the lesser games. In a manner of speaking, if anyone is ruining my game they won't be invited back - It really doesn't matter why, but here's a list of reasons players have been excluded from my events:
  • Spilled wine on the carpet, looked down, then walked off ignoring it.
  • Had to have every option spelled out to her every time the action was on her (hot, but dumb as a sack of hammers).
  • Sexist and insulting
  • Invited a complete stranger (he had met him at a card game the night before and then invited him into my home).
  • Slept with another player's husband.
You will note, "too good" is not on the list.
 
  • Spilled wine on the carpet, looked down, then walked off ignoring it.
  • Had to have every option spelled out to her every time the action was on her (hot, but dumb as a sack of hammers).
  • Sexist and insulting
  • Invited a complete stranger (he had met him at a card game the night before and then invited him into my home).
  • Slept with another player's husband.

I hope this was all the same women. Got her number?
 
I am making my recommendation assuming 2 things.

1.) They aren't colluding.
2.) They aren't good friends of yours away from the table.

This is YOUR game, YOU go to all the trouble of hosting. What do YOU want to happen? So, do YOU want a fun game where you play some cards, or do YOU want a tough game where you learn some lessons and improve? Don't feel bad if other peoples play (even if it's solid play) is ruining YOUR fun and you don't want them to come back. If YOU enjoy the competition, keep inviting them. If YOU enjoy having a good time, playing cards, cracking a few jokes, tell them they are too good for YOUR game.

Sorry for all the screaming, but sometimes nice guys forget it's ok to look out for themselves.
 
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I mean that of course is another option, but just because someone says they'll come back doesn't mean that they will, and if they don't you are out even two more people. Obviously do what's best for the game, and if disinviting the two really will help your game grow then you gotta do what you gotta do.

I too have been banned from a couple low stakes games with friends because I kept winning too much, and I will say I must have thinner skin, because it did hurt my feelings a little. I understood the reasoning, but that didn't mean I liked it.

I mean that of course is another option, but just because someone says they'll come back doesn't mean that they will, and if they don't you are out even two more people. Obviously do what's best for the game, and if disinviting the two really will help your game grow then you gotta do what you gotta do.

I too have been banned from a couple low stakes games with friends because I kept winning too much, and I will say I must have thinner skin, because it did hurt my feelings a little. I understood the reasoning, but that didn't mean I liked it.
Really? I don't know what games you've been banned from, but It's probably more from your super aggros donk style of play wher you go into your crazy raise 3-bet shove mode every hand. While the smart player would just wait and pick you off, most players in these games are there to have a good time and it can get rather boring folding every hand waiting for the opportunity to stack you :)
 
This was from before I went crazy. Just a weekly $20 tourney amongst a bunch of people who weren't very good at all, and I literally won 3/4 of the weeks. Another one disbanded, I guess I wasn't banned, but mainly because it was only like 6 people and a couple people were losing way too much money for a friendly game in which I was the big winner.
 
This one seems very easy, simply tell them they are too good for your game. It's much easier to let someone go by praising them then it is by accusing them of anything. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, doesn't matter if they are cheating or not, that you posted this question means that they should be out of your game. Tell them you admire them for their skill, but they are simply too good for you and for your other players. Say it with a smile, tell them face-to-face, it should be pretty painless. "You guys are new, I've got a lot of players that have played with me for years and they don't want to come because you take their money."

Sure, keep them in the big game if you don't think there is any chance they are soft playing or isolating or dumping, but if there is even a small part of you that suspects shenanigans it's time to praise them to the heavens with compliments as you show them the door.
 
I'm wondering if I've played with them yet. I could tell you for sure if they're colluding if I'm in the game. I'd also be happy to play my A game against them for you and redistribute the wealth :)
 
Also, I've been told I wasn't allowed to play in many home games. I've been the designated dealer more times than I can count. Being told you're "too good to play here" has never been offensive to me. I doubt it would offend them either.
 
Whoa, this is an old thread. The problem kind of fixed itself...they decided to take turns coming to my game instead of together for personal reasons. Individually they still win nice sums and I've gotten some new players to come due to recruitment. I guess that's the best I can do right now.
 
Whoa, this is an old thread. The problem kind of fixed itself...they decided to take turns coming to my game instead of together for personal reasons. Individually they still win nice sums and I've gotten some new players to come due to recruitment. I guess that's the best I can do right now.

Lol, I missed the dates on this
 
The Tuesday 25c/25c game I frequent is hosted by husband and wife. They don't soft play each other, but the fact that they share finances does add a different dynamic to the game. I find they're more likely to stack off against one another due to this. They're no threat though. If anything she's a leak in his game which I'm fine with.
 
If anything she's a leak in his game which I'm fine with.

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Whoa, this is an old thread. The problem kind of fixed itself...they decided to take turns coming to my game instead of together for personal reasons. Individually they still win nice sums and I've gotten some new players to come due to recruitment. I guess that's the best I can do right now.
Seems like you've sorted it out nicely, I love your game, it's well run with a consistent fun player pool. You've even recruited some newbs who keep coming back every week to donk off money just so they can play with your chips :D

Interesting bckgd though if it's who I think it is...
 

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