Cash Game Limit poker thoughts (1 Viewer)

[Han Trinh]

I typically host NL holdem cash games, so I am a Limit holdem virgin. My biggest dedicated cash set has

200 - 0.25
300 - $1
600 - $5
400 - $25

I’m thinking of testing the waters of hosting a $2/5(?), 3/6 or 5/10 limit game with my set.

Anyone hosting limit games of those stakes? What’s the typical buyin, and how much do your players typically make or lose in a night at those stakes? Any other tips for a Limit Host newbie?

 

[RichMahogany]

I’d start out by playing pot limit games such as PLO/SOHE/PLO8.

Might make the transition to limit easier. Pot limit also plays somewhat similarly(IMO) to NL

 

[RichMahogany]

Plus, you can’t say “pot motherfucker!” in limit games

 

[ovo]

smoke the pot man , I have a local movie theater and there were two shows playing, smoke, and the postman, and someone climbed up and changed the letters to" smoke the pot man "

 

[BGinGA]

I’m thinking of testing the waters of hosting a $2/5(?), 3/6 or 5/10 limit game with my set.

Just for reference,, Limit games are designated by small bet/big bet, not by the blind amounts (didn't know if you were aware, many NLHE players are not). What stakes (and buy-ins) do you normally play?

 

[abby99]

I've hosted and/or played 2/4, 3/6, 4/8, and 5/10. Your set should be able to handle any of those structures, although 4/8 might require more change making than you want. Big bets are 2x the small bet, so you'd want to play 2/4 or 3/6 instead of 2/5. Blinds don't need to be 2x, so if you play 3/6, for example, your blinds would be 1-3 or 2-3 (don't introduce another chip denomination just for blinds in FL).

A single hand where the betting is capped on each street ( assuming 4 streets) and without a straddle is 12 big bets. I've heard that buying in for around 25 big bets is a good rule of thumb. Because it's limit, there is no need to cap the buy-in.

Losses are difficult to estimate because it depends on who's playing, how they play, and how they're running. I think that 50 big bets, +/-, would cover most players unless the game is crazy aggressive.

My major tip is to use a dealer ante for ante games, primarily stud, to avoid the need for a frac. You can use a kill or half-kill, but maybe not for an introductory game.

Have fun, and let us know how it goes!

 

[Han Trinh]

@abby99 - love it, thanks for the awesome note, rule of thumbs and tips above!

@BGinGA - $1/2 cash at the Casino’s. The home games I typically play in are deep stacked .25/.50 games with heavy straddling, effectively playing like a $1/2 - $2/4 game.

 

[BGinGA]

The home games I typically play in are deep stacked .25/.50 games with heavy straddling, effectively playing like a $1/2 - $2/4 game.

Comparable fixed-limit stakes would be 4/8 or 5/10 (you can use $1s for the $2 small blind if you don't have snappers).

 

[DrStrange]

I host a range of spread limit games and rare fixed limit games.

Limit nights are for mixed games, especially when people are learning new games or are incapable of learning. I have several players who can't figure out how low worked even with five+ years practice.

I concur with Abby, 50 big bets is a reasonable guess for the big winner or loser. Will be wider when playing strange games. Should be smaller playing split pot games.

Limit is an excellent betting structure for introducing new games or training new players. It is not good for the game for people to go bust early and go home. Also, Limit betting makes luck a bigger factor in the game. The better players will not like it, but the traditional losers should enjoy winning somewhat more often.

 

[Rhodeman77]

My group plays a very deep $1/2 Hold’em/PLO game but would never play mixed games at the same stakes understandably. They didn’t even want to play 25/50c Pot Limit knowing how deep we would still get.

So we played $2/4 limit as an introductory way to try some new games. I’m pretty sure the next time we play it we will raise the stakes to $4/8 as it closer to what we play normally.

Limit is a great way to break the ice to new games. Playing smaller than your normal stakes is probably even better.

 

[bradiggy]

+1 on considering spread limit as well. It gives the players some room to size up/down their bets and play with something resembling a strategy. Whereas 2/4 and 3/6 is typically just a call-fest to showdown because players know exactly what amount they will likely have to put in. A looser game might be your goal though, I don't know!

 

[pltrgyst]

Yes, just from the last few days here at Maryland Live! where they do it both ways, it's obvious how much button antes speed up the game...

 

[abby99]

Yes, just from the last few days here at Maryland Live! where they do it both ways, it's obvious how much button antes speed up the game...

Who didnt post their ante?

 

[BGinGA]

it's obvious how much button antes speed up the game...

So does just dealing the cards face-up, eliminating the betting rounds, and awarding the pot to the winner. Doesn't make it better.

 

[pltrgyst]

So does just dealing the cards face-up, eliminating the betting rounds, and awarding the pot to the winner. Doesn't make it better.

So do you think button antes hurt the game?

 

[TheOctagon]

I'll spare us the pain of rehashing this one again:

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/matt-savage’s-recent-blog-post-on-big-blind-antes.32453/

 

[abby99]

While we're on the subject, Matt Savage is proposing to the TDA that they eliminate the optional double bet on 4th street when a player is dealt an open pair.

 

[APatHand]

30 Big Bet Rule - a player should limit their losses in a limit poker session to 30 big bets.

I would endorse an exception when you can reasonably expect to net win 10 big bets on a hand - some games are just that loose. Also, being able to select games where there is typically one winner when most of the games being called are split pot games. IMHO, If you get down 30 big bets in exclusively split pot games, you should definitely call it a night.

I would like to hear Matt's argument for eliminating the open-pair double 4th street bet.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I've only hosted 1 limit game. Three tables (20 players) with undenominated chips, two were 2/4 (6 players/5 players) and the other was 3/6 (9 players). The value of each chip was 25¢. Because it was limit, I suspect it played the same as any limit game with people that weren't afraid to lose, but were not freerolling (or cheaprolling, to coin a term).

Most players made their initial buy-in for 1 rack of chips (25 Big Bets or 16.67 Big Bets). 100 chips for $25.

Some stats at the end of the night:

• The big winner at the 3/6 table was up 53.333 Big Bets (not to be confused with big blinds)
• The big winner at the 2/4 tables was up 30 Big Bets
• The big loser at 3/6 lost 30 Big Bets
• The big loser at 2/4 lost 30 Big Bets
• 13 of the 20 players finished up $25, down $25, or somewhere in-between.

I can provide more stats upon request.

 

[APatHand]

I am in favor of the button ante. I have encountered it in both tournament and cash game play and while I think the effects of speeding up the game are approximately negligible, it does seem to make things simpler.

 

[Han Trinh]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I think I’ll give PLO a try for a bit. Then try adding some $5/10 limit or a spread limit variant to the mix for variety.

Question. Is 600x$5 in my set above (first post) enough $5’s to comfortable play a $5/10 limit game. Or do I need to add more racks of $5’s to host a comfortable $5/10 limit game.

 

[Frogzilla]

While we're on the subject, Matt Savage is proposing to the TDA that they eliminate the optional double bet on 4th street when a player is dealt an open pair.

IIRC Ali Nejad and another commentator were discussing the double bet during this years WSOP HORSE final table. General gist of their thoughts were that it’s a dumb rule and it’s only stuck around because OMC hate getting drawn out on and want to charge.

 

[abby99]

IIRC Ali Nejad and another commentator were discussing the double bet during this years WSOP HORSE final table. General gist of their thoughts were that it’s a dumb rule and it’s only stuck around because OMC hate getting drawn out on and want to charge.

That makes sense.

I haven't heard any reasonable explanations for why a double bet is not allowed for split-pot or lowball stud games.

 

[JustinInMN]

Question. Is 600x$5 in my set above (first post) enough $5’s to comfortable play a $5/10 limit game.

In my opinion, yes. 100 chips per per player is pretty good for 2-and-4 and 3-and-6 chip structures. 5/10 played with fives is merely a 1-and-2 chip game so 50-60 chips per player should be good.

Other considerations:

1) Small blind.

I would suggest having both small and big blind be 5 to keep you from having to introduce smaller chips.

2) Color ups

You should try and get your hands on some hundreds for color ups. Probably 40-50 would do. This will enable easy swapping per barrel. Using 25s will likely mean making change more than once per hand unless the players are smart enough to change 4 at a time. Forcing the use of hundreds means a player will be unlikely to need change more than once in a hand.

Alternatively, you could simply alllow hundred dollars bills to play on the table.

All that said, if you get about 500 more singles, you could run a pretty good 3/6 or 4/8 game .