Let's chat about the Ocean (1 Viewer)

[Saoliver]

Calling all Degens, especially the meet-up Circus regs. @MatB @inca911 @k9dr @everyone

I have an idea that @Josh Kifer and I have been thinking through. Hoping the forum might share opinions. Maybe it is not an original idea, but I have never seen it.

The idea is Ocean chips that players can use at their discretion. Each player can have 1 or 2 Ocean chips that they can choose to play to get a 6th board card in a particular hand. Here's how it would go:

Players can choose to buy Ocean chips for say $5. Maybe limit it to 1 or 2 per player. Maybe don't limit it. The money goes into a high hand jackpot for the night. Or maybe, you don't charge for the Ocean chips at all, but you have to pay a penalty into the pot when you use it...say double the big blind.

A player can call for an Ocean card if they have a chip. They can call for the Ocean card at any time before betting begins on the River. That way all players know ahead of time that there will be an Ocean card coming. After the River betting, the Ocean is dealt and then a final round of betting.

Your thoughts? Am I crazy or just Degen crazy?

 

[RocAFella1]

 

[Saoliver]

Poll added.

 

[kmccormick100]

I feel like given the usual value of turn and river bets an Ocean chip should cost something more like $20-25

 

[Saoliver]

I feel like given the usual value of turn and river bets an Ocean chip should cost something more like $20-25

Yeah, maybe a percentage of the pot? I was thinking of testing this in limit split-pot games first to see how it goes. So my thinking was a smaller penalty. But in PL or NL, it definitely should cost more.

 

[RocAFella1]

Would this be better as a bounty system or a bomb pot system that can run once every half hour or the like?

 

[Saoliver]

Would this be better as a bounty system or a bomb pot system that can run once every half hour or the like?

There are some that have created degen dice with different options: Ocean, bomb pot, double board, etc. That is one route that I want to explore.

 

[Lemonzest]

I am not quite sure how to implement it but the idea of playing with an ocean card. ie one more card being dealt after the river is interesting. Maybe allow the opportunity in heads up hands where a person can make an "ocean bet" on the river and the other person has the option to stop the hand or continue and play the ocean. Not sure but there is for sure potential there.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I have two thoughts.

One, not crazy at all. I don't find it any different than rabbit hunt or make it a double chips or any other house rules. Some folks are immediately going to poo poo it, but that's just because they won't think of a way for it to work for them. I'd love to incorporate this into my non existent home game, would probably do everyone gets one for free, can buy a second for some $#, and lastly it cannot be used if the current pot is $100+ OR possibly something about players being all in pre or something to that effect.

Two, I think it's the tip of the ice berg. Fantastic idea, I'm just a gamer and gambler not poker player so this is exactly what I love, and who doesn't love moar chips? How many more ideas do you have?

 

[BarrieJ3]

There are some that have created degen dice with different options: Ocean, bomb pot, double board, etc. That is one route that I want to explore.

I was going to refer to this. What about doing some type of rediculous die that has the option to add an ocean card, locust a card from every hand, add an additional hole card, end the current hand at that spot or keep pot intact and move on to next hand, etc.

Everyone gets one die/one roll at any point in the night. Makes it super gambly/gimmicky, but only for those 6-8 times in the night. Plus the roller has no control over what they're picking, they're just hoping for a solid changeup.

I've come up with about 20 things I'd like to do, but as I have 0 home game have no way to tell what would be taken well or not. Having talked a table or two into some dumb sh*t at SQM, the way out there topics like locust have no value, as it gets in the way of strategy and skill too much. If it's done at a table/game where pots aren't that high, it would be WAY more fun. Somewhere that's running .50/.50 where preflop you're pretty often looking at $15-20 in the pot, it's just too gimmicky and gamble.

 

[RocAFella1]

There are some that have created degen dice with different options: Ocean, bomb pot, double board, etc. That is one route that I want to explore.

I like the idea but I’m just trying to figure out how to make it balanced but still fun.

 

[Saoliver]

I have two thoughts.

One, not crazy at all. I don't find it any different than rabbit hunt or make it a double chips or any other house rules. Some folks are immediately going to poo poo it, but that's just because they won't think of a way for it to work for them. I'd love to incorporate this into my non existent home game, would probably do everyone gets one for free, can buy a second for some $#, and lastly it cannot be used if the current pot is $100+ OR possibly something about players being all in pre or something to that effect.

Two, I think it's the tip of the ice berg. Fantastic idea, I'm just a gamer and gambler not poker player so this is exactly what I love, and who doesn't love moar chips? How many more ideas do you have?

Thanks, Jeff. I've got a ton of crazy/shitty ideas.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Thanks, Jeff. I've got a ton of crazy/shitty ideas.

View attachment 538733

Fantastic. After you get feedback on this, don't be afraid to share those! I think I spend more on poker paraphernalia at this point than actual chips. I would love to have a whole set of other house rules to choose from like this Ocean Option aspect, since, ya know, it means maybe buying some plaques, game dice, high hand boards, whatever.

 

[Beakertwang]

I’m just spitballing here...

How about the Ocean card would technically be a second river, basically making it a run-it-twice situation. Let’s say you’re on a nut flush draw, but you miss. You could add the Ocean button (before betting) to the pot to get a second river. If you hit, you get half the pot. If you lose, tough luck. Ocean button goes to winner of the original board. Make them worth $10, so it would only make sense to use it on bigger pots.

 

[BarrieJ3]

Wow! Holy crap, I didn't think there would be that much push back.

Don't be shy, why "bad idea"? I can only think of this effing with really large pots and people getting mad, which can be avoided.

@detroitdad @JeepologyOffroad why you pick bad? Just curious and want to see what we might run into.

 

[Saoliver]

I’m just spitballing here...

How about the Ocean card would technically be a second river, basically making it a run-it-twice situation. Let’s say you’re on a nut flush draw, but you miss. You could add the Ocean button (before betting) to the pot to get a second river. If you hit, you get half the pot. If you lose, tough luck. Ocean button goes to winner of the original board. Make them worth $10, so it would only make sense to use it on bigger pots.

That's an idea worth exploring. You are giving a ton of information to your opponents if you call for a 2nd river.

 

[detroitdad]

Wow! Holy crap, I didn't think there would be that much push back.

Don't be shy, why "bad idea"? I can only think of this effing with really large pots and people getting mad, which can be avoided.

@detroitdad @JeepologyOffroad why you pick bad? Just curious and want to see what we might run into.

I like crazy games. I'm not a fan of completely changing the texture of the hand on a whim "at the river". I buy a $5.00 Ocean chip. Then I use it in a $400 pot as needed. No thank you.

Maybe in a low stakes tourney? definitely not in a cash game.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I like crazy games. I'm not a fan of completely changing the texture of the hand on a whim "at the river". I buy a $5.00 Ocean chip. Then I use it in a $400 pot as needed. No thank you.

Maybe in a low stakes tourney? definitely not in a cash game.

That's what I assumed. I would take issue with that as well. I can't see something like this every going well as "big" games, but not a prob for smaller.

I think adding the caveat at only being used on sub XYZ pots would resolve that (something like under $100 or $50 pots only).

 

[Saoliver]

I like crazy games. I'm not a fan of completely changing the texture of the hand on a whim "at the river". I buy a $5.00 Ocean chip. Then I use it in a $400 pot as needed. No thank you.

Maybe in a low stakes tourney? definitely not in a cash game.

I like the feedback. Maybe it's only a good idea in limit? Or do you think the percentage of the pot idea might work? Say 1/4 or 1/2 the pot in PL or NL?

 

[detroitdad]

That's what I assumed. I would take issue with that as well. I can't see something like this every going well as "big" games, but not a prob for smaller.

I think adding the caveat at only being used on sub XYZ pots would resolve that (something like under $100 or $50 pots only).

now your putting to many rules on it. If its going to be used, it should be allowed to be used no matter the pot size. I also don't like awarding a portion of the pot to it. I think more harm can come from using it than anything.

 

[Highli99]

I think second river idea is better than 6 street.

Also consider costs relative to stakes. Good players will exploit the crap out of these things.

 

[RocAFella1]

That is what I was getting at in terms of fairness, at least for PL/NL.

Even with show’em chips that are worth a certain amount, often times they get stuck with the nits who just want to cash them in at the end.

 

[Coyote]

If I were after just danger and life-changing situations, I 'd go cougar-hunting in the beautiful nature of the Pacific Northwest.
I might even cross to Canada, where most horror stories with cougars come from

 

[Lemonzest]

If you want to have an ocean card then you have to ask for it and you are obligated to show one of your hole cards. All other players in the hand get to make use of the ocean but don't need to show any cards. So basically the person that wants the ocean gets taxed information in having to show a hole card.

 

[Saoliver]

If I were after just danger and life-changing situations, I 'd go cougar-hunting in the beautiful nature of the Pacific Northwest.
I might even cross to Canada, where most horror stories with cougars come from

Don't forget, Nic, we have Sasquatch here too. But she's probably not your type.

 

[Coyote]

 

[Beakertwang]

That's an idea worth exploring. You are giving a ton of information to your opponents if you call for a 2nd river.

But you could use that to your advantage. You could have the nuts, call for the 2nd river, and get people to bet thinking you missed.

 

[colter ripton]

there would have to be a set time of when you have to declare it, and a limited amount of times you can do it. like once a night or once an hour or something. sounds kinda fun though. id try it.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

I like crazy games. I'm not a fan of completely changing the texture of the hand on a whim "at the river". I buy a $5.00 Ocean chip. Then I use it in a $400 pot as needed. No thank you.

Maybe in a low stakes tourney? definitely not in a cash game.

This. I suppose it depends on the game too, but mostly just prefer the pure form with no random extras. Would rather just have run it twice chips or something along those lines

 

[markleteenie]

I feel you'd have to declare and use an ocean chip before the hand starts - before any community cards are out. So you could use it with a mid suited connector or something, to improve the potential for your hand. Or disguise pocket Aces.

The odds of someone with a better hand having to fade a draw with a "surprise" 6th card could make an uncomfortable situation.