In a raked home game should the host play? (11 Viewers)

[mummel]

What about no rake, but charging a percentage of the cash out to cover expenses. That way, only those who have won would pay-up...which if they understand that going in should be no problem. This would also allow the host to play and not be distracted with a rake each hand.

This works for a tourney but what about a cash game?

 

[manamongkids]

I wouldn't mind this if there were a dedicated dealer. Although I would prefer that they just earn tips. However, if the players refuse to tip, then the mandatory $1 seems fair.

ding ding ding, some players are cheap. and i want a satisfied dealer who i dont have to worry about showing up each week.

local games offer less competent dealers, higher rake $5 max usually. $1 taken at each $10. also no where else offers free drinks, so my game is doing pretty well

 

[manamongkids]

ding ding ding, some players are cheap. and i want a satisfied dealer who i dont have to worry about showing up each week.

local games offer less competent dealers, higher rake $5 max usually. $1 taken at each $10. also no where else offers free drinks, so my game is doing pretty well

also has to do with the copious amount of beer in my game, passing the deal is simply NOT an option

@MatB imagine passing the deal last night? 6 hands an hour? 7? tops

 

[mummel]

ding ding ding, some players are cheap. and i want a satisfied dealer who i dont have to worry about showing up each week.

local games offer less competent dealers, higher rake $5 max usually. $1 taken at each $10. also no where else offers free drinks, so my game is doing pretty well

Yeah but you probably actually win which covers your costs in some way. That's also a big factor here!!! If you are hosting and winning, then it's great that you can build up a bank roll to upgrade gear. I'm a net loser. I'm in the hole game after game. Why do I do it then? Insanity????? No. Because I love hanging out with buds drinking too much and have a good time with lots of laughs. I would rather roll a $25 buyin with buds around an oval vs sitting in a bar at 10 bucks a beer. The former is waaaaaaay more fun

 

[mummel]

@MatB imagine passing the deal last night? 6 hands an hour? 7? tops

Sounds like my Saturday night games LMFAO!!!!

 

[bergs]

...... If I show up to a home game only to discover that it's raked, then I would hope the host were playing, because I'm going to target him and unless I run very poorly or if he's a very strong player, then he's almost certainly going to go broke

loltargetaments

 

[bergs]

When we have a dedicated (professional) dealer, I have them take $1 out of every pot and we also tip. All of the money goes to the dealer - I don't take a cut. They're accustomed to a certain hourly rate and we're playing circus games (SOHE, Drawmaha, etc) where we're not seeing a high number of hands per hour, so the double-dip of a tip plus flat $1 rake is fair.

There really aren't any raise/fold around hands (not a single one that I can recall) so it's not like they're taking a dollar out of a dry pot either. AKKKSHUN!!

If we self-deal, no rake and I don't ask for money. If you can't afford the gear, whatever you want to put out for drinks, etc, then (IMO) don't host. It's more of a social event anyway and I wouldn't ask guests to pitch in for stuff if I were throwing a party.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

When we have a dedicated (professional) dealer, I have them take $1 out of every pot and we also tip. All of the money goes to the dealer - I don't take a cut. They're accustomed to a certain hourly rate and we're playing circus games (SOHE, Drawmaha, etc) where we're not seeing a high number of hands per hour, so the double-dip of a tip plus flat $1 rake is fair.

There really aren't any raise/fold around hands (not a single one that I can recall) so it's not like they're taking a dollar out of a dry pot either. AKKKSHUN!!

If we self-deal, no rake and I don't ask for money. If you can't afford the gear, whatever you want to put out for drinks, etc, then (IMO) don't host. It's more of a social event anyway and I wouldn't ask guests to pitch in for stuff if I were throwing a party.

What happens when the dedicated dealer leaves and someone decides to take over. Should they deal themselves in? Should they take and expect a tip too?

 

[Anthony Martino]

I prefer non-raked home games but have played in raked ones with dedicated dealers, player freerolls, multiple tables of action and free food for the players.

The host was pretty nitty and would only play to fill a seat and keep the game running if necessary, and preferred not to play. It doesn't bother me as long as you go into into knowing what it is. It's not a "home game", it's most certainly a "business" for profit, and I can deal with that provided the game is run well and isn't raking some ridiculous amount.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I'd be ok with a $1 rake if it's legitimately paying for expenses and nothing more (i.e., a professional dealer, or beer & food, something like that). But if they're raking $3 per hand or more and using it to buy a boat, I'd just find another game to play in. Unless of course #loltargetaments... cause that's just damn fun!

 

[Anthony Martino]

I don't care if they are buying a boat, $3/hand beats $5 plus $2 jackpot drop here in FL, plus free food

When I lived in CT the closest casino was still an hr and 15 minutes away. So the raked game within 10 minutes worked just fine

Now if the rake is up to $15/hand count me out, unless that comes with asian triplets in schoolgirl uniforms

 

[derekdd23]

Why do you think he shouldn't play? Don't mean to grill you, but I'm curious.

If the host is making a profit I don't think they should play. I avoid all games like that.

 

[chkmte]

This works for a tourney but what about a cash game?

When the player cashes out, simply deduct "x percent". In other words, short the winners by a predetermined pct/amount.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I don't care if they are buying a boat, $3/hand beats $5 plus $2 jackpot drop here in FL, plus free food

When I lived in CT the closest casino was still an hr and 15 minutes away. So the raked game within 10 minutes worked just fine

Now if the rake is up to $15/hand count me out, unless that comes with asian triplets in schoolgirl uniforms

For me it doesn't. The jackpot drop goes back to the players eventually, so that's pretty much a wash. And when you factor in the cost of having good dealers who's integrity isn't in question, a gambling commission overseeing the game, floor rulings that while not perfect, are generally at least more knowledgable and fair than what you find in home games, a waitlist keeping the game full, and security making sure you don't get robbed/mugged, then I'd rather play in the casino than at some random dude's house if he's raking $3 per pot. A local home game here in San Jose just got robbed last week. Not cool. Obviously not every casino is perfect, don't get me wrong, but you do get something of value in return for that rake. But I wouldn't dare play the stakes I used to play in Vegas & LA in a home game setting.

 

[RainmanTrail]

If the host is making a profit I don't think they should play. I avoid all games like that.

That's not quite fair either though. Are you saying they should only play if they're a bad player, but not if they're good? LOL. I profit from my games, but I'm transparent about it. All the players know I used to play professionally and they don't seem to care. They keep coming back... (hold on while I look for my horn, I gotta toot!)

 

[Anthony Martino]

There's plenty of shady shit going on with the jackpot money. The casinos are holding onto hundreds of thousands of dollars for months, then re-raking it when it's dispersed with administrative fees

And the seminoles here in FL are capping their jackpots, but keep taking the drop each hand anyway

 

[jbutler]

If the host is making a profit I don't think they should play. I avoid all games like that.

Got it. But why do you think that?

 

[jbutler]

There's plenty of shady shit going on with the jackpot money. The casinos are holding onto hundreds of thousands of dollars for months, then re-raking it when it's dispersed with administrative fees

And the seminoles here in FL are capping their jackpots, but keep taking the drop each hand anyway

Not sure what other states have these regs, but in NJ casinos are prohibited by law from taking any administrative fee from jackpot or bonus money that is derived from player contributions.

 

[bergs]

What happens when the dedicated dealer leaves and someone decides to take over. Should they deal themselves in? Should they take and expect a tip too?

I love it when a player says "Guys, I'll deal all night". They shouldn't be taking a drop if they're playing though. Tipping is completely up to the players - they shouldn't expect it but if they're dealing SOHE and chopping pots 4 ways, hey, that's a fair amount of work when they could be sitting back and sipping an IPA, so I'm going to throw them a buck if I'm getting a good part of that pot.

EDIT: I don't think it's cool if a player takes a drop for themselves while they're dealing. That's only designed (IMO) for a dedicated dealer.

 

[Mojo1312]

If the host is a donator, you should want them to play, whether or not it's raked.

To me, the two are just completely independent.

That being said, if the host is a real ace, and is taking a rake, their game is unlikely to last, unless the amenities are stellar and they work hard to promote.

This ^^

I have played in numerous home games, as well as a couple of underground games. Based upon my experience, underground games are run similar to a casino where the rake is taken from the pot. The only way you could get into the underground games I attended is if a regular vouched for you.

I have always looked at a raked home game differently from most other recreational poker players. I love the idea of being able to sit down at a weekly game where everyone knows one another and you have the freedom to leave whenever you like.

As others have pointed out, nice chairs, table, and cards add up. I spent $1200 on my modest single table set-up. (This investment grew when I started hosting tournaments and had to buy a second table and set of padded chairs.)

But more importantly, hosting a regular game requires one to give up a piece of his or her life. (Week in and week out.) The host is also responsible for the bank and the clean-up, and more often than not, he will let the game run later than intended when he sees everyone is having a good time.

That being said, I have only played in two raked games. The first one, the host kept 10% of your winnings. ($10 if you were in for $40 and cashed out with $140.)

In the second game, the host ran an 18 to 20 player $50 one hour re-buy tournament from which he took out $75. The tournament lasted around 5 to 5.5 hours. A rake free $1/$2 NLO-hi cash game would begin about three and half hours into the tournament, which would end approximately 90 minutes after the tournament finished. Unlike the other home games I have played in, the last hand was faithfully dealt at quarter to 2.

Not once did I think poorly of the host for taking $75 from the tournament prize pool. The money always came out right, and you could always count on half of the players sticking around for the cash game.

I never took a rake in the 15 months that I hosted a weekly cash game, nor did I take a rake from the bi-monthly tournaments that I hosted. Having my own home game never stopped me from regularly attending the former raked cash game.

To each his own.

 

[DJ Mack]

If you can't afford the gear, whatever you want to put out for drinks, etc, then (IMO) don't host. It's more of a social event anyway and I wouldn't ask guests to pitch in for stuff if I were throwing a party.

This times a thousand. See, the thing of it is, despite the warped perspective we all have on equipment if I offered my friends and family the use of the wood dining room table, a 99 cent pack of Bicycle cards and interlocking chips they'd still come over to play. When I upgraded to Dice chips things were getting serious.

Fact of the matter is I chose to build a topper for the dining room table. I chose to shell out $12+ on quality plastic cards and Lord only knows what I've spent on chips. But that's because I want(ed) to. Seriously, if I got rid of all that stuff the same guys would be over to play cards just as often. So why should I expect them to underwrite is essentially a separate hobby of mine? What's next? Raking the game so I can repaint the dining room? We rotate hosting duties enough that on the whole the cost of food works itself out and everyone pretty much brings what they want to drink anyway.

Not to mention I really don't need to get wrapped up in some illegal gaming operation. I guess to answer OP's question, in a raked home game should the host play? Hell if I know, I don't want or need any part of that.

 

[manamongkids]

I'd strongly contend there are two CLEAR different types of home games, at least.

Seems like Rainman, myself, Bergs, etc host fairly regular games; whether that be once a week, twice a week or once a month. Some of us offer dealers, and other gracious things such as drinks/food. Most of the people in attendance are probably regulars for the most part, meaning the play regularly in the game. You probably have an invite list between 15-30 people is my guess.

I love my game to move smoothly and see as many hands per hour as I possibly can. I want my friends/attendees to enjoy themselves (which I believe they do)

My $1 once the pot hits $20 for a competent dealer, unlimited drinks and a comfy well-run game (I believe) is nothing compared to what they would pay for in a poker room/casino closeby. I also have improved my table, chairs, chips, cards, TVs, cable packages - I spend 2 hours every week cleaning up the game and organizing the game to happen - i feel zero remorse for taking $1 at $20 to fund the dealer and my game.


Now on the other hand - there exists other types of home games, Ive seen @jbutler @k9dr post stacks from other "home games" which are essentially invite only raked underground games - they just happen to be hosted in someones home, basement, garage etc.

THESE games I would not play in as the potential for issues is clearly greater than our other type of home games. If I was out of options for local poker, and this was offered, I'd have to really think about attending.



I think everyone on here can see a diff between the two.

 

[Jambine]

I'd strongly contend there are two CLEAR different types of home games, at least.

Seems like Rainman, myself, Bergs, etc host fairly regular games; whether that be once a week, twice a week or once a month. Some of us offer dealers, and other gracious things such as drinks/food. Most of the people in attendance are probably regulars for the most part, meaning the play regularly in the game. You probably have an invite list between 15-30 people is my guess.

I love my game to move smoothly and see as many hands per hour as I possibly can. I want my friends/attendees to enjoy themselves (which I believe they do)

My $1 once the pot hits $20 for a competent dealer, unlimited drinks and a comfy well-run game (I believe) is nothing compared to what they would pay for in a poker room/casino closeby. I also have improved my table, chairs, chips, cards, TVs, cable packages - I spend 2 hours every week cleaning up the game and organizing the game to happen - i feel zero remorse for taking $1 at $20 to fund the dealer and my game.


Now on the other hand - there exists other types of home games, Ive seen @jbutler @k9dr post stacks from other "home games" which are essentially invite only raked underground games - they just happen to be hosted in someones home, basement, garage etc.

THESE games I would not play in as the potential for issues is clearly greater than our other type of home games. If I was out of options for local poker, and this was offered, I'd have to really think about attending.



I think everyone on here can see a diff between the two.

Well said and I agree 100%. Is it friends getting together to have some fun, or is it a business. Big difference

 

[MatB]

also has to do with the copious amount of beer in my game, passing the deal is simply NOT an option

@MatB imagine passing the deal last night? 6 hands an hour? 7? tops

LOL.. yes passing the deal would NOT be viable. especially last night :

@manamongkids runs a very nice game, keeps fridge stocked, and has a sober dealer. Thats worth a paying a premium. Yes most of his players are "friends" but they are also avid poker players and understand the benefits to having a dedicated dealer.

Maybe its just me but i have a different view on rakes. If i lose a pot, then i lost. Who cares if house takes a dollar. If i win a pot then its like paying a small tax on my winnings. Either way i don't care (not that i like the losing part)

I like to play poker. having a dedicated dealer means i see more hands ergo more poker.

All the above is said from a very casual players perspective, who really enjoys playing cards and while winning is more of a priority than losing, i'm not too focused on expected win rate/hr. I play to have fun. yes. @bentax1978 i can hear you now saying "its a good job you're not worried about winning"

 

[derekdd23]

Got it. But why do you think that?

In games that rake for profit:

Over the years I have seen too many hosts play in their own games and do shady things such as give them selves free tourney buy ins. In cash games hosts that rake often stake players or let others play on credit, there is too many opportunities for collusion at that point and I have seen collusion first hand on more than one occasion.

In non raked, or no profit games i dont mind them playing because they dont have a financial interest other than poker.

 

[derekdd23]

That's not quite fair either though. Are you saying they should only play if they're a bad player, but not if they're good? LOL. I profit from my games, but I'm transparent about it. All the players know I used to play professionally and they don't seem to care. They keep coming back... (hold on while I look for my horn, I gotta toot!)

This is only in the context of raked games for profit. One of the games I play in and is 0 rake and the host is usually the big winner which i am fine with. He has no financial interest other than the winnings in the game.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Not sure what other states have these regs, but in NJ casinos are prohibited by law from taking any administrative fee from jackpot or bonus money that is derived from player contributions.

Here in FL the Seminoles have the governor in their back pocket and are able to keep their slot payout percentage hidden.

You can be damn sure it's not the 85% required of other casinos in the State

 

[pltrgyst]

....Ive seen @jbutler @k9dr post stacks from other "home games" which are essentially invite only raked underground games - they just happen to be hosted in someones home, basement, garage etc....

Hmmm. I've never heard Mark mention playing in a raked home game.

 

[Blaster]

At my game, I host and play, but don't take a rake, even for food and beverages. Personally, I find playing and raking to be a little grimey, especially if you amass a large stack off the people you are already taking a drop on.

Yeah I dont see why someone hosting should have a rake. Everyone should chip in before the game to cover food and booze. To me, if there is a rake, its more of a business venture and the group dynamics will change (i.e. are the players your friends or customers?).....I just dont see a rake as fair. Other ideas?"

If your regulars have no idea what anything costs then there is a very good chance they'd be just as happy playing on a cheap table with cheap chips while sitting on metal folding chairs. Expecting the regs to help cover food and drink is one thing but finding a way to get them to pay for poker room upgrades is quite another... what you do with your space is your choice, none of that cost should be put on your players.

Raking in any form is not a home game. It is just not a home game practice...."

Seems from some posts here, there are surely a bunch of people that would not feel "right" at a raked game", & the host would probably never know it bothered them ...


It sounds like @bergs and @manamongkids run respectable common sense rakes, and I would have no hesitations playing there or games similar, myself ...

I've played in raked home games a few times in the past, & at least in those games, it seemed apparent the house was in it for more than just covering the dealer & Pizza ...

I doubt anyone wants to arrive at a home game, & kind of feel to themselves, ( regardless of how true/not true it might be), that they are helping the host eventually "win" a new dining room table, or pay for his premium upgraded cable TV package, monthly OnStar service, or get him a future set of mint CPC/Paulson's ...
Rake without a non-playing, dedicated dealer, seems harder to justify ...
Not sure how I would handle paying a regular dealer, but I would probably either have all chip in a fixed amount at arrival, or at least start off by making it "tips" no rake, with a guaranteed minimum, For sake of example, if the dealer is guaranteed $80, but tips only made $65, I would pay the dealer the extra $15 myself , & in that case try to 'nudge my players to tips a bit better if they want to keep a dealer ......

** Here is an interesting question:
You are invited by a friend to a local home game.
If, say, a hypothetical "average" of a 14 player home game's rake ends up being, $130-150 at end of the night , would you feel better ( especially the occasional infrequent or new player), about just being asked/told "Hey, everyone chips in $10 at arrival, for the Beer/food/drinks/host", or instead, arrive, play, and watch live chips being raked all night?
Even though the end result is the same for the host, the psychology of it would make me imagine player answers would skew to the $10/arrival ....

 

[MatB]

Seems from some posts here, there are surely a bunch of people that would not feel "right" at a raked game", & the host would probably never know ...


It sounds like @bergs and @manamongkids

** Here is an interesting question:
You are invited by a friend to a local home game.
If, say, a hypothetical "average" of a 14 player home game's rake ends up being, $130-150 at end of the night , would you feel better ( especially the occasional infrequent or new player), about just being asked/told "Hey, everyone chips in $10 at arrival, for the Beer/food/drinks/host", or instead, arrive, play and watch pots being raked all night?
Even though the end result is the same, the psychology of it would make me imagine answers would skew to the $10/arrival ....

I personally would be very ok with upfront paying the dealer/ rake. Or even an hourly rate for a seat.

I'm not sure what the expected rake/ tips are for a 9 handed table playing for 6+hrs. I'd be ok with $5/ hr per person. Especially if the dealers very good.