In a raked home game should the host play? (1 Viewer)

JamesOwnz

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I've played in a few home games in my time, both where the hosts have and have not played.

I personally don't really like it if the host plays but it isn't a big deal for me, if I were ever to host a raked home game I wouldn't play.

Is anyone else have mixed views? Or am I the only one that thinks it kinda weird?
 
If the host is a donator, you should want them to play, whether or not it's raked.

To me, the two are just completely independent.

That being said, if the host is a real ace, and is taking a rake, their game is unlikely to last, unless the amenities are stellar and they work hard to promote.
 
I play a bunch of raked games and the practice is a mix. There's one where the host only plays to fill seats if absolutely necessary. The rest it's an always or never proposition.

I don't care one way or the other unless the host is incredibly bad or incredibly good, but I do think it impacts the feel of the game. In games where the host never plays the game is perceived to be more of a business venture than a hobby (which is an accurate perception in 95% of cases imo regardless of whether the host plays or doesn't). In games where the host plays, people tend to see it more as something that he does for fun and they're more likely to attribute the cost of rake to paying for the host's overhead rather than going into his pocket.
 
Why would anyone play in a home game where the rake does more than cover expenses?

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I absolutely hate when a host takes a rake and plays. Especially in tournaments where rebuy and cash accountability are more difficult to manage. I have played in a tournament where there was rake and a dealer tip taken out while the host was allowed unlimited free entries, without informing anyone this was happening.

I think it is perfectly fine if the host plays in a non raked game, or a game where you only pay the dealers.
 
I have played in a tournament where there was rake and a dealer tip taken out while the host was allowed unlimited free entries, without informing anyone this was happening.

This is leaps and bounds different from simply playing in your own game.

Also, would you feel differently if the game was staffed by dealers and other personnel who handle all buy-ins, rebuys, etc., so that the fact that the host plays doesn't slow down the administration of the game?
 
This is leaps and bounds different from simply playing in your own game.

Also, would you feel differently if the game was staffed by dealers and other personnel who handle all buy-ins, rebuys, etc., so that the fact that the host plays doesn't slow down the administration of the game?

I would feel much more comfortable. I still feel like if the host is profiting from the game, they shouldn't play in it. Even if they are the worst player ever, I still won't go back.

If the host takes minimal rake to pay for dealers, food, etc and not profit. I am perfectly ok with that.
 
I would feel much more comfortable. I still feel like if the host is profiting from the game, they shouldn't play in it. Even if they are the worst player ever, I still won't go back.

Why do you think he shouldn't play? Don't mean to grill you, but I'm curious.
 
I host once a month, I will NOT rake, some guys tip the house for hosting and if i am still playing that money goes on the table in my stack unless its cash.. I provide a few snacks and soda and I like playing so I do not expect anything from the gang....

I had a dealer once and told everyone that it was a $5 tip for him and they could tip him if they wanted, but I wont do that again as we have a great system with two Perma dealers (Me and a friend, we sit opposite of each other).

I do not think a host should rake unless they provide bad beats and bonus for players.. MO
 
Yeah I dont see why someone hosting should have a rake. Everyone should chip in before the game to cover food and booze. To me, if there is a rake, its more of a business venture and the group dynamics will change (i.e. are the players your friends or customers?). Seems to me like the host should not play in this instance and should deal all night to remove any perceived conflicts.

However, we all know a lot of $$$$ goes into a decent setup (chips, table, chairs, cards, custom buttons/bounties, storage, TVs, side tables, decor etc). At least $2k if using regular consumer chips. I'd like to invest in better chips & plaques down the road so whats the best way to ask your regulars to contribute? I host because I enjoy it, period, but it would be nice to upgrade the setup in the future and enlist the help of the regulars to do it.

I just dont see a rake as fair. Other ideas?
 
However, we all know a lot of $$$$ goes into a decent setup (chips, table, chairs, cards, custom buttons/bounties, storage, TVs, side tables, decor etc).

This is why I'd be okay with a rake and the host playing at his/her own game
 
At my game, I host and play, but don't take a rake, even for food and beverages. Personally, I find playing and raking to be a little grimey, especially if you amass a large stack off the people you are already taking a drop on.

Exactly that

@JamesOwnz if the host takes a rake, the game is (almost certainly) illegal. Beyond that I suppose anything goes
 
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This is why I'd be okay with a rake and the host playing at his/her own game

Yeah but you understand what a setup costs. I would say 0% of my players have any idea (as probably goes for anyone that does not host). Im sure if they did know it would not be a problem to ask them to contribute, but the reality is without knowing or incorrectly thinking the costs are minimal, asking for a rake will leave people sour.

Also, asking someone to contribute to upgraded gear that only plays once every couple of months doesnt seem fair either.

I dont know, I just wouldnt play in a home game with a rake when friends were involved. I wouldnt like it, even though I know what sht costs. But a separate, dedicated fund where folks know the target and can monitor progress, with a finite end date, maybe that could work. I was wondering if anyone here has some creative ideas.
 
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However, we all know a lot of $$$$ goes into a decent setup (chips, table, chairs, cards, custom buttons/bounties, storage, TVs, side tables, decor etc). At least $2k if using regular consumer chips. I'd like to invest in better chips & plaques down the road so whats the best way to ask your regulars to contribute? I host because I enjoy it, period, but it would be nice to upgrade the setup in the future and enlist the help of the regulars to do it.
If your regulars have no idea what anything costs then there is a very good chance they'd be just as happy playing on a cheap table with cheap chips while sitting on metal folding chairs. Expecting the regs to help cover food and drink is one thing but finding a way to get them to pay for poker room upgrades is quite another... what you do with your space is your choice, none of that cost should be put on your players.
 
Why would anyone play in a home game where the rake does more than cover expenses?

Ya, to me, this is no longer a "home" game, despite its physical location. A business is a business. A rake in a home game, that is designed to cover costs, dealers, food, etc.. is fine imho. A rake in a game that is designed to make the organizer profits, and the game is held in a home, is a business...
 
Also, asking someone to contribute to upgraded gear that only plays once every couple of months doesnt seem fair either.

Collecting a rake, or collecting time, means they only pay a small amount, and only pay when they play. It's a way of making the collection more fair than asking everyone to kick in a large sum for a purchase.

To me, if there is a rake, its more of a business venture and the group dynamics will change (i.e. are the players your friends or customers?).

To me, that depends very much on the actual take, and what the expenses are. If the chips, table, cards, drinks, food are really good, and the rake is relatively small, then it's clearly not a business venture. And a typical rake on a micro game simply won't pay for the game.

Seems to me like the host should not play in this instance and should deal all night to remove any perceived conflicts.

I just don't see any inherent conflict. If the game is a fair game, and the bank is managed properly, then whether or not the host plays makes no difference - except inasmuch as you may want them in if they're poor, or you may want them out if they're strong. But that's the case, regardless of whether or not there's a rake.

This all goes out the window if the game isn't fair - such as the above where the host has "unlimited buy-ins" at a tournament. But if you run a fair game, the rake is the rake. Period.

I think part of the difference of opinion we're seeing here is because of the gray area of what a "home game" is.

Ask yourself this question: if you assume a host who wants to play poker (the majority of home games), why on earth would they run the game, raked or unraked, if they couldn't play? If I charged a rake, and the rake allowed me to get a better table, and better chairs, and better chips, and serve more/better drinks and food, all of that would only make me happy if I could play. If I couldn't play, then F it, why would I bother with any of it?

On the other hand, if you have a "host" who is content to run a raked game where they don't play, then it's not really a home game... it's just an unlicensed card room.

So when I hear "raked home game," I think of a host who wants to play, and uses the rake to subsidize the setup (or cover for their donkishness.)

Frankly, anyone who is raking enough to make hosting worthwhile for the profit is running something which just isn't a home game.

All that being said... I host regularly, and I take no rake or time or fee of any kind. Part of that is my desire to be 100% legal in my state. Part of that is my desire to keep the game affordable for my friends.
 
I host and play in my games. If we get two games and one breaks, and we end up 11 handed, I will give up my seat for the player waiting. I will also usually give up my seat at the beginning if we start with 11 players. I generally only don't give up my seat when someone shows up to the game hours late after confirming on the invite. I figure if it were important enough to them to get a seat, they would have showed up on time. But even then, I'll still offer to give up my seat a pretty fair percentage of the time.

Whether or not the host plays is irrelevant to me. I'm fairly used to playing in games with house players and shills. If the host wants to play, then why shouldn't they be able to? If you don't like playing with that particular person, however, then that's something else. But it's no different than playing in any game with players you don't want to play with whether they're hosts or not. Just find another game. But the rake in a home game is what I have an issue with. Raked home games are bullshit as far as I'm concerned. If I show up to a home game only to discover that it's raked, then I would hope the host were playing, because I'm going to target him and unless I run very poorly or if he's a very strong player, then he's almost certainly going to go broke. Otherwise, if he's not playing, then I probably wouldn't play there again unless the game is super juicy because I don't want to play in a raked home game (I'll just go to the casino where getting robbed is a much lower threat). Although, if the game were raked AND the host were an extremely strong player with few leaks and difficult to exploit, then I just wouldn't play there at all. But what drives my decision is the rake, not the host playing.
 
Raking in any form is not a home game. It is just not a home game practice. BYOB

I've played in many "poker rooms" where the owners/ operator play. It doesn't bother me if the game is honest, but I start to wonder "Is the game honest?"
 
I found a relatively new bar tournament on Monday. Afterwards, I was surprised to find that folks normally organize a cash game afterwards. Blinds were $.50/1, and the game was nine handed. I was surprised that during the first few hands, I noticed that the person dealing full-time was not dealin himself in... And on the bigger hands, the dealer was taking a dollar rake out of the pot.

Being new, I wasn't sure if this was normal. However after a half hour of play, two new players joined the game. These Players also had the same revelation, but obviously had been regulars. These Players pitched a fit about having to pay rake, Said the cash game never usually charges a rake. The guy dealing, said that he started the game, was banking, and was taking a rake from the bigger pots. He alluded that if these players did not want to play, they did not have to.

On one hand, the guy was dealing, and taking care of the bank. So I wouldn't normally have issue with the guy taking a buck out of the big pots. It really didn't amount to all that much. And it was nice having a dealer. However, on the other hand, this guy was not the tournament host or organizer. He was just a guy who busted early and set up shop at a spare table, using the tournament directors extra chips, cards, etc.

I was new, so I didn't make any waves. Had the guy been dealing full-time without taking a rake, I would have likely tipped him each major hand that I won. I think others would have as well, so he would have made more on tips imho.

Kind of gutsy move. I talked to a few regulars after the game, and they didn't know who this guy was. But he seemed to be doing a good job dealing, and the action at the table prevented me from getting up and leaving the game. Wound up earning back my tournament entry and Then some. Juicy.
 
Raking in any form is not a home game. It is just not a home game practice. BYOB

I've played in many "poker rooms" where the owners/ operator play. It doesn't bother me if the game is honest, but I start to wonder "Is the game honest?"

Ya, I host a lot, and I'm very anal about people observing me buying into the tourney, and purchasing cash chips (and rebuying). I want people to know I'm not free rolling.

I also post payouts in almost every publication. It a spreadsheet that lists the number of players and the places paid. No question..

I played a game once where the Host Was so bad, when the final table formed (out of five tables), we asked the payouts.. he takes a wad of crumpled bills out of his pocket, dumps them on the table. I ask how many places paid, what is the prize pool, etc...? He says whatever is on the table... he also indicates that he took money Out to pay for all the food (pizza was ordered), and for the booze he supplied... um, none of this was announced in advance. For this and a great many other reasons, this takes the cake as the worst run home tourney ever...

Why do I continue to play this game? Because the $35 tourney buys me pizza, a few drinks, and access to one of the fishiest 1/2 cash games ever... unfortunately he only hosts 2x year...
 
I'm very anal about people observing me buying into the tourney, and purchasing cash chips (and rebuying). I want people to know I'm not free rolling.
Making sure people witness you buying cash chips shouldn't be an issue what-so-ever when you're running the bank as the guy running the bank should be 100% responsible for any shortages.
 
Wasn't expecting this much discussion but good to see, anyways to give a bit more breakdown of the game i'm tlaking about.

So I started playing in this game about a year ago and it was a 25c50c game with a small rake that went towards a $1000 freeroll and a new poker table.. once the freeroll was done the rake stopped.

However the game eventually got bigger to 50c/$1 (Now it is 1/2 and sometimes 2/3) the host is the full time dealer and now orders food (maybe 70-80 bucks in cost) and gives out $20 bonuses to each player if they play about 4 hours... he also has a small selection of booze for an open bar

This host is now an aspiring poker pro who was playing fairly regularly at the casino for a few months now but has recently picked up up his home game to having 3-5 nights a week.\

This is someone i consider a friend but it just does rub me a little wrong seeing as how he is basically freerolling every night.

In the end it is less rake than the casino and you get some features however the there could be some upgrades for sure in chairs and what not, chips are meh as they are the ceramic Laurel Crown or something
 
I host a weekly $1/1 game and I rake $1 on any pot over $20 to pay a dedicated dealer and provide beer, water and soda.

It's hardly a drop where people are concerned whatsoever.

I also play in the game.
 
Wasn't expecting this much discussion but good to see, anyways to give a bit more breakdown of the game i'm tlaking about.

So I started playing in this game about a year ago and it was a 25c50c game with a small rake that went towards a $1000 freeroll and a new poker table.. once the freeroll was done the rake stopped.

However the game eventually got bigger to 50c/$1 (Now it is 1/2 and sometimes 2/3) the host is the full time dealer and now orders food (maybe 70-80 bucks in cost) and gives out $20 bonuses to each player if they play about 4 hours... he also has a small selection of booze for an open bar

This host is now an aspiring poker pro who was playing fairly regularly at the casino for a few months now but has recently picked up up his home game to having 3-5 nights a week.\

This is someone i consider a friend but it just does rub me a little wrong seeing as how he is basically freerolling every night.

In the end it is less rake than the casino and you get some features however the there could be some upgrades for sure in chairs and what not, chips are meh as they are the ceramic Laurel Crown or something

I will offer you some advice, based on 40+ years of serious Poker (much of that playing in private games):
Let this one go. There is plenty of straight-up action out there. Find a better game
 
I host a weekly $1/1 game and I rake $1 on any pot over $20 to pay a dedicated dealer and provide beer, water and soda.

It's hardly a drop where people are concerned whatsoever.

I also play in the game.

I wouldn't mind this if there were a dedicated dealer. Although I would prefer that they just earn tips. However, if the players refuse to tip, then the mandatory $1 seems fair.
 
Yeah but you understand what a setup costs. I would say 0% of my players have any idea (as probably goes for anyone that does not host). Im sure if they did know it would not be a problem to ask them to contribute, but the reality is without knowing or incorrectly thinking the costs are minimal, asking for a rake will leave people sour.

Also, asking someone to contribute to upgraded gear that only plays once every couple of months doesnt seem fair either.

I dont know, I just wouldnt play in a home game with a rake when friends were involved. I wouldnt like it, even though I know what sht costs. But a separate, dedicated fund where folks know the target and can monitor progress, with a finite end date, maybe that could work. I was wondering if anyone here has some creative ideas.
What about no rake, but charging a percentage of the cash out to cover expenses. That way, only those who have won would pay-up...which if they understand that going in should be no problem. This would also allow the host to play and not be distracted with a rake each hand.
 
Wasn't expecting this much discussion but good to see, anyways to give a bit more breakdown of the game i'm tlaking about.

So I started playing in this game about a year ago and it was a 25c50c game with a small rake that went towards a $1000 freeroll and a new poker table.. once the freeroll was done the rake stopped.

However the game eventually got bigger to 50c/$1 (Now it is 1/2 and sometimes 2/3) the host is the full time dealer and now orders food (maybe 70-80 bucks in cost) and gives out $20 bonuses to each player if they play about 4 hours... he also has a small selection of booze for an open bar

This host is now an aspiring poker pro who was playing fairly regularly at the casino for a few months now but has recently picked up up his home game to having 3-5 nights a week.\

This is someone i consider a friend but it just does rub me a little wrong seeing as how he is basically freerolling every night.

In the end it is less rake than the casino and you get some features however the there could be some upgrades for sure in chairs and what not, chips are meh as they are the ceramic Laurel Crown or something

I don't know man. This doesn't sound like a "home game". Also ask yourself, why the hell would the guy host 3 nights a week if he was just covering his costs? Its a sht load of work and a time commitment cleaning up, setting up, managing invites, buying food etc. I would be ok with him getting something out of it (if his buy-in gets covered then that's ok).

But if you don't like it then rather find some other action. Whether you are right or wrong about it, if it rubs you the wrong way, then rather find a game you enjoy. Life is too short.
 

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