I'm not buying 2500 #%@!-ing chips for a limit game! (1 Viewer)

[Beakertwang]

But I would like to learn to play some limit stud, razz, etc. with my crew. I've never looked into it before, but it looks like it would be a blast!

We usually have 6-9 players, and buy-ins are usually $5-10, max lost is usually $20.

What stakes should I play to maximize the fun-to-buy-in ratio, and what denoms/counts should I get to minimize chip quantity and expense?

Related questions:
1) Where can I play limit stud on-line to familiarize myself with the game? Not P* apparently. (edit: Found it on P*-- I just had to figure out my way around the site.)
2) Ever run out of cards for a hand on a full table? Or get close? Seems unlikely that you'd have that many to 5th street and beyond, but with 9 players it could conceivably happen. Just curious.

Note: The somewhat hyperbolic title was inspired by the two-racks-per-player-preferred comments I've seen.

 

[codeman00]

Read the rules section for your “running out of cards” question.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-card_stud

 

[FDLmold]

I play these exact stakes now, mixed game, but plenty of limit games in the mix. My workhorse chip is a 25c chip. I have approximately 200x5c, 300x25c, 200x1, and 100x5. I have 60-80 chips per player and I find that to be plenty.

If you want a straight limit set, you need dimes and can play 20c/40c limit games. If people buy in for the $10, give em a rack o dimes, which is 25 big bets. Buy as many dimes as you think you need, and a couple racks of $1 chips for later buyins.

 

[JustinInMN]

Two racks per player is fun, but you can probably operate on 3-4 barrels per player and a rack of color up chips.

For a similar risk level I think .25/.50 limit is where you are. Losing 20 bucks is 40 big bets. Ideally you would play with a nickel ante and .10 on the low card force.

An alternative would be to have the button ante .25 for the table and the low card force for .25, this would mean a similar starting pot size, but the force would have to be treated as a full bet instead of a partial bet.

If you play low card force, the chances of running out of cards reduces substantially, since no one gets to 4th Street free.

However, I would advise against dealing stud 9 ways as it would be possible to run out of cards on 6th Street and there is no good provision for that to my knowledge. Eight is usually the max, you will always have enough cards for 6 streets and a community river. If 9 players are seated I suggest dealing out the player to the dealer's left so there's an easy sit out rotation.

For chips I would do .50*.05, 250*.25, 100*5 bank 565. No singles, just use fives so players can swap a single chip for a barrel of quarters when needed.

 

[Beakertwang]

However, I would advise against dealing stud 9 ways as it would be possible to run out of cards on 6th Street and there is no good provision for that to my knowledge. Eight is usually the max, you will always have enough cards for 6 streets and a community river. If 9 players are seated I suggest dealing out the player to the dealer's left so there's an easy sit out rotation.
.

From the Wikipedia page, linked by @codeman00:
"Seven cards to eight players plus four burn cards makes 60 cards, and there are only 52 in the deck. In most games this is not a problem because several players will have folded in early betting rounds. If the deck does become exhausted during play, previously-dealt burn cards can be used when only a few cards are needed to complete the deal. If even those are not sufficient, then on the final round instead of dealing a downcard to each player, a single community card is dealt to the center of the table, and is shared by everyone. Discarded cards from a folded hand are not reused. Unlike draw poker, where no cards are ever seen before showdown, stud poker players use the information they get from face-up cards to make strategic decisions, and so a player who sees a certain card folded is able to make decisions knowing that the card will never appear in another opponent's hand."

 

[RowdyRawhide]

Stakes: .25-.50 limit

Chip Denoms: 25c (3-4 barrels is enough to go but big stacks are fun) and $5 (use for larger buyins and rebuys)
450×.25
50×$5
For 500 chips minimum to get you started up to 10 players (I would personally do 900×.25 and 100×$5)

Your flirting with problems if you run 8 people in 7 card stud almost certain problems if you run 9. I suggest if you have more than 8 just run hold em to avoid any issues. Limit games will likely give you more players later in the hand.

I agree with justin's ante suggestion above to maintain a 2 chip breakdown

 

[JustinInMN]

I kinda like the dime and dollar structure @FDLmold posted too. You could play. .20/.40, .30/.60, .40/80 that way. May still want a handful of nickels or do a button ante.

 

[JustinInMN]

From the Wikipedia page, linked by @codeman00:
"Seven cards to eight players plus four burn cards makes 60 cards, and there are only 52 in the deck. In most games this is not a problem because several players will have folded in early betting rounds. If the deck does become exhausted during play, previously-dealt burn cards can be used when only a few cards are needed to complete the deal. If even those are not sufficient, then on the final round instead of dealing a downcard to each player, a single community card is dealt to the center of the table, and is shared by everyone. Discarded cards from a folded hand are not reused. Unlike draw poker, where no cards are ever seen before showdown, stud poker players use the information they get from face-up cards to make strategic decisions, and so a player who sees a certain card folded is able to make decisions knowing that the card will never appear in another opponent's hand."

Yes this is the provision if you don't have enough cards to complete the river. I was saying if you deal 9 handed, there is a chance you won't complete 6th Street, (6 cards * 9 players is 54) and for that I don't think there's a contingency.

 

[FDLmold]

Yes with dime chips you would either want a nickel for antes, OR, make dealer ante for everybody, then you don't need nickels. Stud could be with 8 players a 40c dealer ante, 10c bringin, and 20c/40c limits (or 30/60).

 

[Beakertwang]

I know this is anathema on PCF, but a limit game would be a breeze for non-denom chips, and I may just get a load of cheapies, since I don't have a bunch of extra cash to spend on chips.

 

[Beakertwang]

Yes this is the provision if you don't have enough cards to complete the river. I was saying if you deal 9 handed, there is a chance you won't complete 6th Street, (6 cards * 9 players is 54) and for that I don't think there's a contingency.

Gotcha.

 

[JustinInMN]

I know this is anathema on PCF, but a limit game would be a breeze for non-denom chips, and I may just get a load of cheapies, since I don't have a bunch of extra cash to spend on chips.

Super diamonds! And you really only need the volume for the workhorse denomination, you could still use your normal cash set for the high value chips.

 

[Beakertwang]

Super diamonds! And you really only need the volume for the workhorse denomination, you could still use your normal cash set for the high value chips.

I currently have a set of Showdowns, and I treat the amounts as cents. I could add a few racks of tens, and use my fives as antes and my hundreds as dollar color-ups. But I'm definitely going to consider the super diamonds.

 

[JustinInMN]

At 7 cents each, go ahead and buy 2500

https://www.discountcasinogear.com/Poker-Chips-Super-Diamond-s/1577.htm

 

[JustinInMN]

They were my first set when I hosted weekly tourneys in college. Had 1000, bought wsop colors and everything .

 

[JustinInMN]

I currently have a set of Showdowns, and I treat the amounts as cents. I could add a few racks of tens, and use my fives as antes and my hundreds as dollar color-ups. But I'm definitely going to consider the super diamonds.

If it were me I would just order the chips that match, get more showdowns. Ether bulk up on the 25s or get the 10s (I find myself warming to that structure and you have all the other chips you need in your set already.)

 

[BGinGA]

We usually have 6-9 players, and buy-ins are usually $5-10, max lost is usually $20.

What stakes should I play to maximize the fun-to-buy-in ratio, and what denoms/counts should I get to minimize chip quantity and expense?

Best limit game experience is a two-chip/four-chip game, which is best handled using a single denomination - one rack per player - with maybe a barrel of x10 or x20 denomination chips for color-ups and re-buys if needed. However, microstakes do not lend themselves to this format very well, unless you want a crap-load of nickels.

At the stakes your group plays, a $5 buy-in equates to 25 big bets if playing 10c/20c limit. Blinds are 5c/10c, with the small bet (pre-flop and flop) at 10c and the big bet (turn and river) at 20c. Four bets max per betting level. If playing stud games, then a 5c bring-in, 10c complete with a 10c small bet and a 20c big bet.

4 racks of 10c chips, four barrels of nickels (for small blinds and bring-ins), and a barrel of $5 chips (for re-buys and color-ups if needed) - so 500 chips total will work. A $5 buy-in gets 45 dimes and 10 nickels. Personally, I always like to buy in for 50 big bets, so that I don't have to worry about dropping below 25 bb and needing to reload.

A better (but more expensive) approach would be to use all nickels plus $5 chips. That way your 10c/20c limit game is a two-chip/four-chip game and you only need two denominations, but you'd want a rack of nickels per player to start ($5 buy-in). With 8 players, you're talking at least 800 chips.

Related questions:
1) Where can I play limit stud on-line to familiarize myself with the game? Not P* apparently.
2) Ever run out of cards for a hand on a full table? Or get close?

Limit stud is def an option on pokerstars. We hold PCF limit Stud hi-lo tournaments occasionally.

Seven players max for stud games. You can play 8-handed, but either the dealer sits out, or you could be dealing a common 7th street card or reshuffling discards (not advised).

I know this is anathema on PCF, but a limit game would be a breeze for non-denom chips, and I may just get a load of cheapies, since I don't have a bunch of extra cash to spend on chips.

This is actually a great idea for limit sets. Two no-denom chips can be used at whatever stakes you desire, and 'cheapies' allows you get sufficient numbers to run a proper two-chip/four-chip game.

 

[Beakertwang]

Limit stud is def an option on pokerstars. We hold PCF limit Stud hi-lo tournaments occasionally.

I found Stud on P*. Not sure why I couldn't navigate my way around the first time.

Took 50k up to 100k pretty quickly. I guess I'm an expert already!

 

[TheOctagon]

I know this is anathema on PCF, but a limit game would be a breeze for non-denom chips, and I may just get a load of cheapies, since I don't have a bunch of extra cash to spend on chips.

I don’t think it’s anathema. Come to think of it, I am pretty sure there was discussion about the merits of non-denom chips being ideal for limit sets if you wanted to spread multiple stakes without having to have 7000-some odd chips in your set.

I personally don’t enjoy the idea of using cash value chips and moving the decimal for micro stakes, but if you have a good set you need to get into play I can’t judge!

Still crossing my fingers that someone is interested in a GB for a cool limit set... simple, flavorful, and if it can be pulled off.. 39mm workhorse/43mm value chip.

 

[Beakertwang]

@TheOctagon, I was referring more to the cheapies being anathema, than the non-denom.

Showdowns don't have dollar signs, so we can treat them all as cent chips, which is one of the reasons I chose them.

 

[TheOctagon]

@TheOctagon, I was referring more to the cheapies being anathema, than the non-denom.

Trust me, I wallow in the mid-tier of chipology. I appreciate the need for sturdy equipment that still looks decent and is affordable. As I mentioned in a tournament planning thread, my players are boozetanks and they have no problems soaking the table occasionally. I'm not sure I can stomach a set of casino Paulsons getting doused every few months. Until I have a proper table with deep cupholders (man can dream, eh?) I'm going to stick to the mid range sets.

 

[upNdown]

Limit stud is def an option on pokerstars. We hold PCF limit Stud hi-lo tournaments occasionally.

We should do that soon

 

[pltrgyst]

To play a limit game, all you really need is one reserved denom for your larger chip value -- say $20.

The huge quantity of smaller denom chips used for play don't actually have to be any single particular denom -- they can be a mix of all the various denom/non-denom/color chips you happen to have around.

 

[TheOctagon]

To play a limit game, all you really need is one reserved denom for your larger chip value -- say $20.

The huge quantity of smaller denom chips used for play don't actually have to be any single particular denom -- they can be a mix of all the various denom/non-denom/color chips you happen to have around.

Please tell me you've tried this

That would do two things:

1) Drive me completely insane.
2) Confuse my players to the point where I would have to stop the game and we'd just play Mario Kart for the rest of the night.

 

[Beakertwang]

Sounds like .10/.20 would be my correct stakes.

My options to consider, as I see it:
Add a bunch of nickels (Showdown 5's) and play 2/4 chip, or add a bunch of dimes (Showdown 10's) and play 1/2 chip (this seems more efficient), or
Get a buttload of Super Diamonds in a workhorse color, and one or two other colors, and use them for whatever stakes I want.

Do y'all prefer a button ante?
Should the forced bring-in be half the small bet?

 

[pltrgyst]

Please tell me you've tried this

Yep. I've done it with racks of all black $100 chips, played as $1 each. Accompanied by $100m plaques, at face value.

But then the guys in my home game were all pretty sharp... :

No different from using 1600 unlabeled Chinese clays, really.

 

[TheOctagon]

Oh! I got it. You meant use a single color for all your workhorse chips. I thought you meant just grab whatever assortment of rainbow racks you have around and designate a single denom as the value chip. That would be doable. I don't think I have enough of any one color anyway to make that work, but I like where you're going with it.

 

[allforcharity]

Get a buttload of Super Diamonds in a workhorse color, and one or two other colors, and use them for whatever stakes I want.

I have a bunch of Superior Diamonds (because they are better than Super Diamonds) that you can have for very cheap. Feel free to PM me for details.