Help me understand set limits stud (1 Viewer)

[TheOffalo]

Agreed. I just got home and was ready to cite some resources. I was also going to concede that perhaps it's a regional variant, but I think not counting as a raise is the more common version. As long as everyone knows and agrees on the rules beforehand, play away!

As an aside, I haven't been able to figure out the reason for the bring-in in the first place vs. just forcing the low card to put in a full bet, at least in a tournament setting. Most of my players are casual players with little experience who struggled with the bring-in vs full bet idea at the tables I wasn't playing at, so for my tournaments I got rid of the bring-in and just force a full bet and haven't noticed any ill effects.

I’m assuming because it’s a forced bet they didn’t want it to be a full small bet.

One might say hold ‘em has a full-size bet as mandatory big blind, but that rotates and is equitable. Whereas if you’re unlucky in Stud you could be the bring-in many more times than if in a rotation, so by having the bring-in be smaller it doesn’t punish bad luck as much.

But this is just a total guess on my part.

 

[grebe]

I am pro dealer ante in stud games. I am also anti-smoking, and would consider an ante for a person away from the game but not sitting out a tax on smoking.

 

[FDLmold]

I’m assuming because it’s a forced bet they didn’t want it to be a full small bet.

One might say hold ‘em has a full-size bet as mandatory big blind, but that rotates and is equitable. Whereas if you’re unlucky in Stud you could be the bring-in many more times than if in a rotation, so by having the bring-in be smaller it doesn’t punish bad luck as much.

But this is just a total guess on my part.

The bring-in was probably created to give the poor schlub with the lowest card at least some choice in the matter. He has the worst card showing, it is pouring salt in the wound to force him to put in a full small bet each time. Additionally, there is no choice or variety under those circumstances - just a routine monotonous same amount each time no matter what. If I see a bring-in make it a full SB to start, in stud or stud hi/lo, I perk up a little and pay more attention because it does not often happen.

 

[bigdonkey]

I’m assuming because it’s a forced bet they didn’t want it to be a full small bet.

One might say hold ‘em has a full-size bet as mandatory big blind, but that rotates and is equitable. Whereas if you’re unlucky in Stud you could be the bring-in many more times than if in a rotation, so by having the bring-in be smaller it doesn’t punish bad luck as much.

But this is just a total guess on my part.

That would be my guess, and for a given session it may hold true, but long-term everyone should get the low door card at the same rate so it would be a wash.

The bring-in was probably created to give the poor schlub with the lowest card at least some choice in the matter. He has the worst card showing, it is pouring salt in the wound to force him to put in a full small bet each time. Additionally, there is no choice or variety under those circumstances - just a routine monotonous same amount each time no matter what. If I see a bring-in make it a full SB to start, in stud or stud hi/lo, I perk up a little and pay more attention because it does not often happen.

I never get to play stud so I'm pretty clueless, but wouldn't the bring-in making it a full bet set off the alarms that they have a strong hand? Or is there enough equity in setting up a bluff on a later street with a 3 in the door to make it a full bet?

 

[upNdown]

I’m assuming because it’s a forced bet they didn’t want it to be a full small bet.

One might say hold ‘em has a full-size bet as mandatory big blind, but that rotates and is equitable. Whereas if you’re unlucky in Stud you could be the bring-in many more times than if in a rotation, so by having the bring-in be smaller it doesn’t punish bad luck as much.

But this is just a total guess on my part.

I remember a tournament where, as stacks were getting shorter, I caught the bring-in on something like 7 out of 10 hands of razz and stud. It can add up quickly as the stacks get shallow (which they tend to do in fixed limit tournaments.)
Yeah it will sort itself out in the long run, but in tournaments, you don’t get the benefit of the long run. So I support the cheaper bring-in.

 

[bigdonkey]

I remember a tournament where, as stacks were getting shorter, I caught the bring-in on something like 7 out of 10 hands of razz and stud. It can add up quickly as the stacks get shallow (which they tend to do in fixed limit tournaments.)
Yeah it will sort itself out in the long run, but in tournaments, you don’t get the benefit of the long run. So I support the cheaper bring-in.

You are probably right under normal circumstances. I guess I'm just so accustomed to playing with my inexperienced players where a typical 3-handed hand late in tournament with my players goes something like bring-in, limp, limp - Check, check, check - check, check, check - check, bet, fold, fold and it would drag on forever until the Big Bet size was literally like 10% of the chips in play, so I just force a full size bet to get as much money in the pot earlier to get things moving.

Again, super inexperienced players - often times it goes bring-in, fold, fold - so the person getting the bring-in multiple times in row is actually beneficial because it forces them to "steal" the antes at a high rate. Again, I understand this atypical, but I have no experience playing stud with experienced players.

 

[BGinGA]

Again, super inexperienced players - often times it goes bring-in, fold, fold - so the person getting the bring-in multiple times in row is actually beneficial because it forces them to "steal" the antes at a high rate. Again, I understand this atypical, but I have no experience playing stud with experienced players.

That's highly unlikely to occur with experienced players -- somebody (certainly the last-to-act) will undoubtedly raise the bring-in 'limper' with any three cards since he's shown weakness by just bringing it in.

And an experienced low-card limper may very well just bring-in vs complete with a monster hand, in hopes that somebody pops it with a weaker holding (allowing for the limper to then re-raise).

There's a lot more strategy to stud (and limit poker games in general) than most people realize. The simple strategy of 'always bet/raise/re-raise' isn't always the best way to drag the maximum pot size.

 

[Machine]

Often times the strat is to not expose the strength of your hand until 4th street so you can get an extra bet in by way of check raise

 

[JustinInMN]

That's highly unlikely to occur with experienced players -- somebody (certainly the last-to-act) will undoubtedly raise the bring-in 'limper' with any three cards since he's shown weakness by just bringing it in.

To be honest, I just bring in 100% of the time when I am low card, this will give me the option to re-raise a steal when I have strength, or I may wait and see how it develops and make a move on 5th street when the bets double.

 

[ThrowBack]

That would be my guess, and for a given session it may hold true, but long-term everyone should get the low door card at the same rate so it would be a wash.


I never get to play stud so I'm pretty clueless, but wouldn't the bring-in making it a full bet set off the alarms that they have a strong hand? Or is there enough equity in setting up a bluff on a later street with a 3 in the door to make it a full bet?

In a home game I think jumping to a full bet is just speeding it along ‍

 

[ThrowBack]

 

[ThrowBack]

Thought I would post this

 

[ThrowBack]

C

I forget if it was in Chip Reese's writing for Super System, or if it was in Sklansky/Malmuth's Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players, but one of those has a discussion of the ante, the bring-in, and the betting limits of the game, and what constitutes a low-ante game, a high-ante game, and something in the middle.

If the ante is .25, bring-in is .25, and first betting limit is .25, I'm pretty sure that is a HIGH ante game, and that you're justified playing all sorts of trash for just the bring-in if it never or rarely gets raised. My low-stakes game is 5c ante, 10c bring-in, and 25c/50c betting limits, and if I remember right, that's a pretty mid-ante game.

I don’t have the 7 card book but Chip does talk about it in Super System

 

[ThrowBack]

The night is set up late October. Outside Reno if anyone else is interested pm me be. Right by a casino with $1/3 no limit if you want bigger action

Playing $1/2
.25 ante
.50 bring in

Stud, Tahoe, Chicago, limit holdem

 

[SteveEH]

The night is set up late October. Outside Reno if anyone else is interested pm me be. Right by a casino with $1/3 no limit if you want bigger action

Playing $1/2
.25 ante
.50 bring in

Stud, Tahoe, Chicago, limit holdem

Played stud and razz a couple months ago at those stakes and it was really fun!