Fixed Limit blind structure (1 Viewer)

[Dugthefish]

Finally got enough players for an FL Omaha Hi Low game. Our usual NLHE game is .25-.50, so I was thinking a $1-2 limit game with either a single or double $1 blind.

Don't wanna have quarters on the table, and I think $2-4 will be too big for several of my hold em players who are willing to give Omaha a try.

Thoughts?

 

[Mangatang]

3-6 (with binds of 1/3)

 

[Mrs Poker Zombie]

You said your usual is .25/.50. What is the usual pre-flop bet? That may help drive the fixed limit decision.

 

[Dugthefish]

You said your usual is .25/.50. What is the usual pre-flop bet? That may help drive the fixed limit decision.

~$3? My NL game plays big, not unusual to have guys open raising to $8+. Trying to break them in to FL with smaller stakes, the guys who have no problem dropping $300 at NLHE are scared to put $50 in for Omahahaha...

 

[churlbut18]

I don’t think $2/$4 limit is as much of a stretch from $0.25/$0.50 NL as you may think, particularly if your flop betting in the NL game is in increments of $1-$5 and your turn betting is in $5 increments. I think $2/$4 is a much better game than $1/$2. $100 buy-in would work well. Give everyone a rack of $1’s to start.

 

[Dugthefish]

I don’t think $2/$4 limit is as much of a stretch from $0.25/$0.50 NL as you may think, particularly if your flop betting in the NL game is in increments of $1-$5 and your turn betting is in $5 increments. I think $2/$4 is a much better game than $1/$2. $100 buy-in would work well. Give everyone a rack of $

I agree completely. Unfortunately, I am pulling teeth with some of these guys, who want to go keep .25/.50 blinds and .5/1 limits. I'll get them there, but gotta take baby steps lol

 

[abby99]

I'm going to swim against the tide here (hoping I don't drown) and support $1/2 with either two $1 blinds.

Why? It's better, IMHO, to play lower stakes until everybody gets the hang of the game, at which time you can raise them. Better to raise stakes than to have to lower them. It's also much better to entice players who don't understand the game.

I've seen these situations handled in two excellent ways. @inca911 likes to hold a low buy-in tournament for, say, $10. The cost is low and known up front. I understand that players are free to discuss a hand after the hand over (not during, obviously) in order to help everybody gain a better understanding of the game. Another group held "learning games," which were low-stakes cash games in which hands could be discussed after they're over. The goal of each is to promote confidence and comfort for, the cost of a few bucks and some time, aka get everybody hooked. A worthy goal, indeed!

 

[AZBOARDER13]

I don’t think $2/$4 limit is as much of a stretch from $0.25/$0.50 NL as you may think, particularly if your flop betting in the NL game is in increments of $1-$5 and your turn betting is in $5 increments. I think $2/$4 is a much better game than $1/$2. $100 buy-in would work well. Give everyone a rack of $1’s to start.

Why do you say 2/4 is a better game than 1/2? Because of the influence of more chips enticing more action? The whole 1, 2, 3 chip blind/ bet discussion?

 

[Mangatang]

So your regular NLHE game is $.25/.50, so normal buy-in is like $100? If so, $3-6 limit is pretty much the same, $100 buy-in.

 

[churlbut18]

Why do you say 2/4 is a better game than 1/2? Because of the influence of more chips enticing more action? The whole 1, 2, 3 chip blind/ bet discussion?

To a degree, yes... I’ve played both and I’ve simply had a better experience with 2 chip / 4 chip or even 3 chip / 6 chip games.

 

[Mrs Poker Zombie]

I completely agree with what @abby99 said. It's what I would do myself.

 

[grebe]

2/4 all day. Blinds are $1/$2....its not that big of a leap. Big winner/loser will be around $100.

 

[grebe]

I wouldnt try to do something weird with the blinds here, keep it simple, the same structure they are used to. As simple as poker gets, SB 1 chip, BB and small bet, 2 chips. Big bet, 4 chips. Make it easy and you will have success.

You can make the chips whatever you want....I suggested $1's up top....because it will be what your players are already used to gambling with. You can go with .50, and it will play small (NOBODY will fold.) Of course, not many will fold in 2/4 either.

 

[Dugthefish]

So your regular NLHE game is $.25/.50, so normal buy-in is like $100? If so, $3-6 limit is pretty much the same, $100 buy-in.

Normal buy in is 60

 

[Rhodeman77]

Playing too small compared to what your normal wins/losses in your NL game can bad for the game. Players won’t feel the rush they are used to.

my first circus limit game I was talked into playing $2/4 to get everyone used to the games cheaply. The biggest winner/loser was about $150. Our big bet game has $600-$1k swings normally. So it was way to small and people complained about it.

Now we play $5/10 with a kill to $7.50/15 which is still a little smaller, but it is much closer to the wins and losses our group is used to.

I would make this suggestion:

start small like you are thinking $1/2, but put it out there that after 2 hours of everyone feels comfortable with the game you could move up the stakes to $2/4.

after 2 orbits of each game my players all felt comfortable enough with the games that we could have played higher stakes that first game.

 

[Dugthefish]

@Rhodeman77 great idea!

 

[JustinInMN]

Play 1/2 with all quarters . MOAR CHIPS!

But seriously my rule of thumb for nl is set the stakes where players are comfortable putting 3x max buy in for the session.

For limit, my rule of thumb would be to set the limit where players are comfortable buying in for at least 50-60x the big bet. (Not necessarily all at once.)

So I can see where you are in between 1/2 and 2/4 here.

There is merit in starting smaller too and then deciding where to go as others have said here.

There are legit reasons to prefer games requiring MOAR CHIPS, but it's fine and doable to do a 1/2 game using 1-1 blinds in a single chip structure. The main thing to watch in single chip structures is players making extra chip errors that may lead to accidental raises. That's less of an issue in 3-chip or 4-chip structures where dropping one extra chip is always correctable.

 

[Dugthefish]

Thanks for all of the replies. Since this will be the first exposure to both fixed limit and Omaha for several of my players, I think I am going to stay at $1-2 with 2 big blinds of $1. If things go well, I will propose bumping up to 2-4 (later in the session or for the next time we play). I can see where @JustinInMN is going about accidents with extra chips and will have to keep an eye on that. But almost all of my players tonight have been around for a while and know that I'm going to judge by intent in most cases.

I've been wanting to play a single chip game with MOAR!!! chips for a long time. Current chip set only has 400 dollar chips, currently working on a custom set which will have at least 800 dollar chips for future limit games.

For tonight, I plan on restricting all betting to single dollar chips, use $25 chips for rebuys, and just make a lot of change from big stacks to ensure all players have a couple barrels of betting chips.

 

[JustinInMN]

Current chip set only has 400 dollar chips,

400 should be sufficient for 1/2 given the suggested buy in would be 40-50. (Though you do not have to "cap" buy ins in limit.)

You probably want to have 20s or 25s at the ready for color up chips. Twenties are ideal because of barrel swapping with singles, but I imagine you will probably get more than 400 in play.

 

[Dugthefish]

400 should be sufficient for 1/2 given the suggested buy in would be 40-50. (Though you do not have to "cap" buy ins in limit.)

You probably want to have 20s or 25s at the ready for color up chips. Twenties are ideal because of barrel swapping with singles, but I imagine you will probably get more than 400 in play.

Actually, I forgot I have 100 non denoms I'll probably use as 20s. Can't see getting more than $2400 on the table tonight.

 

[JustinInMN]

Yeah, I would guess 800 would be the high side if all players get in for 100 each. This would be too tight for 2/4 imo

See how it goes. A lot of trial and error in how this works.

 

[Dugthefish]

1-1 blinds worked just fine. Win/loss spreads were noticeably tighter than our regular NL game, but that's been getting out hand lately anyway lol. Next time we will probably try 1-2.

 

[warma]

So they’re hooked?

For me, the narrower spreads are nicer. I want it to be a social catalyst among friends, not money making venture.

 

[JustinInMN]

Time to start designing the bigger limit set then. I think you need to scare up at a bare minimum another 200 singles and really 400 would be better to support 2/4 limit.

I am reminded of this thread "Limit of a limit set," I made a post attempting to break down good targets for limit sets.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/the-limits-of-a-limit-set.62492/#post-1231752

Anyway, if you are making future plans, glad it went over well.

 

[Dugthefish]

So they’re hooked?

For me, the narrower spreads are nicer. I want it to be a social catalyst among friends, not money making venture.

Idk about hooked lol, but most are willing to try again. Might do 7CSHL or HORSE next time. It was a nice change from the cutthroat murder game we usually play lol

 

[Dugthefish]

Time to start designing the bigger limit set then. I think you need to scare up at a bare minimum another 200 singles and really 400 would be better to support 2/4 limit.

I am reminded of this thread "Limit of a limit set," I made a post attempting to break down good targets for limit sets.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/the-limits-of-a-limit-set.62492/#post-1231752

Anyway, if you are making future plans, glad it went over well.

Already on it
Thread 'Dug's Poker Pit: My first custom set' https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/dugs-poker-pit-my-first-custom-set.71657/

 

[Dugthefish]

Incidentally, this was my first time using $20 chips, which worked absolutely amazing.

 

[OKYJJ]

Question which fits the title of this old-ish thread:

What is the proper small blind for a “3 chip structure”
Limit game? Like 3/6 using $1 chips for example.

Should it be a $1 small blind or a $2 small blind? I could see pros and cons. The smaller small blind gives less in the pot for others to play for. The larger small blind make the small blind hard to fold. Steal or be stolen I guess. Interesting position to play.

I’m leaning toward 2 chips. What do you all think?

 

[JustinInMN]

Question which fits the title of this old-ish thread:

What is the proper small blind for a “3 chip structure”
Limit game? Like 3/6 using $1 chips for example.

Should it be a $1 small blind or a $2 small blind? I could see pros and cons. The smaller small blind gives less in the pot for others to play for. The larger small blind make the small blind hard to fold. Steal or be stolen I guess. Interesting position to play.

I’m leaning toward 2 chips. What do you all think?

It's in odd because in 3/6 games, the one dollar small blind is overwhelmingly common. By the same token 15/30 limit is almost always played with a 10 small blind.

No reason why either way.

 

[OKYJJ]

It's in odd because in 3/7 games, the one dollar small blind is overwhelmingly common. By the same token 15/30 limit is almost always played with a 10 small blind.

No reason why either way.

I see. Yeah I was also wondering about 15/30. And 6/12. And 1.5/3, and .75/1.5, and 30/60.

Although for 6/12 using 2s and 30/60 using 10s there would probably be smaller chips available to use for the regular half-bet SBs, I know most people prefer having fewer denominations on the table.