Electric vehicle recommendations (2 Viewers)

That’s with potential savings, if you select purchase price it will show 66k
 
The new bill got passed and signed and ... there is mass confusion. It SEEMS at this point that very few EVs sold starting in 2023 will qualify for the $7500 tax credit. The gotcha in the bill is that there is a requirement that certain percentages of the battery components be sourced from certain countries. The issue is that most manufacturers are not transparent about where they get their battery components from, so nobody really knows what cars will qualify. It is clear that the vast majority WON'T.
 
I have been in the EV market for several months, it has been a pain in the ass. Mostly I have been told it is a three to twelve month wait for a car, "would I like to get on a waiting list?" < deposit required but refundable >

Almost no one has any EVs for sale. I can only speak about full EVs, not hybrids. Hard to make decisions about what to buy when you can't touch / test drive / sit in or even look at the product. These are expensive and not something I am comfortable buying sight unseen.

Pricing is obscure. No dealership will quote me a firm price on anything. Perhaps I can see what other buyers paid for 2022 model year cars but no telling if that price reflects what I would actually pay in model year 2023.

The Inflation Reduction Act has sown chaos through its evolution of the rules for the EV tax credit. No small thing when we are talking about $7,500 rebated on a ~~$30,000 - $55,000 vehicle. The dealerships have no clue. Several didn't know what I was talking about over the last two weeks. No doubt they know what the words mean now, but that doesn't give any answers. Most dealers I spoke with couldn't say if or even when their cars might qualify for the rebate.

Best advice I got was wait till 2025 - 2027 for all this to shake out. If I weren't on foot, perhaps I could take that advice. But sadly, I can't wait three to five years even if it does cost me $7,500 it rebates.

No matter what you hear, the auto makers didn't all raise their EV prices $7,500 this weel. As noted, most dealers can not or will not talk prices for cars yet to be built. Even more so for models across model years. These rebates have been available for years and the new rules make them far more difficult to obtain. This isn't new money, it is old money no longer attainable.

We put down a deposit on a VW ID.4. I haven't treated so poorly in a car dealership - not so much out of malice as incompetence. But as the sales force was quick to point out - "We don't have a binding deal with you. Pricing and delivery are unknown Can't even say what model year. No idea what comes on the model you selected. " So I am sure we are going to shop out the price on this reservation in every VW dealership in the area.

The Kia, Ford and Hyundia also made our short list. Still waiting to see one of these models. Looks like we have months and months to wait no matter what.

For what it is worth, I wouldn't consider a Tesla. Longest of wait times, difficult to do business with in Texas due to Tesla not being allowed to sell its cars in state, even for a car maker - Tesla lies too much. And that is saying quite a lot. I know the brand has "sizzle" but that seems more like "sucker appeal" to me.

DrStrange

PS Why don't I have a car anymore? Strange you would wonder. Seems we needed to clear space in the garage while I was using my wheelchair. We lent my car to our seventeen-year-old niece. A month turns into a year. Now she is headed off to college in "her" car, position being nine part of ten of ownership. It was a fifteen year old car. Perfectly reasonable for a teenager's first car. Who would have thought getting a replacement could turn into an ordeal.
 
Internal Combustion music listener here (6-flat etc), and an environmentalist too (electric cars are NOT sustainable currently), so I 'd rather burn fuel or walk.
Before the pandemic I used electric mass transport vehicles (the subway), which do make sense.
 
We have a Honda Clarity. It's a plug in hybrid. Feel it's the best of both worlds. We get around 43 miles of electric (temperature dependant) and then it switches to ice and get around 45mpg. On the last tank of gas we got over 1000 miles on only 6 gallon tank. Pretty good.
It drives great, super comfortable and roomy.
Perfect? No. Really great car for us? Yes!
 
DrStrange said:
I have been in the EV market for several months, it has been a pain in the ass. Mostly I have been told it is a three to twelve month wait for a car, "would I like to get on a waiting list?" < deposit required but refundable >

Almost no one has any EVs for sale. I can only speak about full EVs, not hybrids. Hard to make decisions about what to buy when you can't touch / test drive / sit in or even look at the product. These are expensive and not something I am comfortable buying sight unseen.

Pricing is obscure. No dealership will quote me a firm price on anything. Perhaps I can see what other buyers paid for 2022 model year cars but no telling if that price reflects what I would actually pay in model year 2023.

The Inflation Reduction Act has sown chaos through its evolution of the rules for the EV tax credit. No small thing when we are talking about $7,500 rebated on a ~~$30,000 - $55,000 vehicle. The dealerships have no clue. Several didn't know what I was talking about over the last two weeks. No doubt they know what the words mean now, but that doesn't give any answers. Most dealers I spoke with couldn't say if or even when their cars might qualify for the rebate.

Best advice I got was wait till 2025 - 2027 for all this to shake out. If I weren't on foot, perhaps I could take that advice. But sadly, I can't wait three to five years even if it does cost me $7,500 it rebates.

No matter what you hear, the auto makers didn't all raise their EV prices $7,500 this weel. As noted, most dealers can not or will not talk prices for cars yet to be built. Even more so for models across model years. These rebates have been available for years and the new rules make them far more difficult to obtain. This isn't new money, it is old money no longer attainable.

We put down a deposit on a VW ID.4. I haven't treated so poorly in a car dealership - not so much out of malice as incompetence. But as the sales force was quick to point out - "We don't have a binding deal with you. Pricing and delivery are unknown Can't even say what model year. No idea what comes on the model you selected. " So I am sure we are going to shop out the price on this reservation in every VW dealership in the area.

The Kia, Ford and Hyundia also made our short list. Still waiting to see one of these models. Looks like we have months and months to wait no matter what.

For what it is worth, I wouldn't consider a Tesla. Longest of wait times, difficult to do business with in Texas due to Tesla not being allowed to sell its cars in state, even for a car maker - Tesla lies too much. And that is saying quite a lot. I know the brand has "sizzle" but that seems more like "sucker appeal" to me.

DrStrange

PS Why don't I have a car anymore? Strange you would wonder. Seems we needed to clear space in the garage while I was using my wheelchair. We lent my car to our seventeen-year-old niece. A month turns into a year. Now she is headed off to college in "her" car, position being nine part of ten of ownership. It was a fifteen year old car. Perfectly reasonable for a teenager's first car. Who would have thought getting a replacement could turn into an ordeal.
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I think this pretty well sums up the current EV car buying experience, nice write-up! The new changes in the EV tax credits MAY change the market some. There have been many people in Dr. Strange's situation, sitting on waiting lists for months waiting for their EV to show up. They have also been expecting to get the $7500 tax credit (except for those waiting for Teslas and GM cars). Now, with the new rules in effect, most of those cars coming in will NOT qualify for the $7500 credit. This will cause some percentage of buyers to not take delivery of their cars they have been waiting for. This may at least help in being able to see or test drive a car, and it should also make the wait times shorter.

Here is my short summary of how I think the most cheaper/most popular models are affected. This is just my understanding from reading. The biggest new rule that causes confusion is that there are battery component limitations, and battery component specifics of each car are not really known. Anyone please correct me if you have other info.

  • Kia EV6/ Hyundai Ioniq 5 - No more $7500 rebate at least until they start assembling them in North America. Can't happen until 2025 at earliest
  • Volkswagon ID4 - Their plant in the US has just recently begun making ID4s. Only the ones made there will get the credit, but not sure about how much due to battery component questions.
  • Ford Mustang Mach E - I've read confusing things. They are assembled in North America, so that is a positive, but not sure if it qualifies now.
  • Chevy Bolt - Did not previously qualify. Should qualify for cars sold after 1/1/23
  • Nissan Leaf - Qualifies now, and should still qualify in 2023.
  • Tesla - Did not previously qualify. Looks like lowest trim level of Model 3 and Model Y will qualify in 2023.

So, what does this all mean right now? Here's what I THINK, briefly. Since the credit is gone for EV6/Ioniq 5, some buyers will go elsewhere. They will still all be sold, but the wait times should get shorter. ID4 - Demand for made in US ID4s will be VERY high, and demand for made in Europe ones will go down. The Bolt is interesting. Demand for Bolts to be delivered in early 2023 will be sky high. This should make it much easier to buy a Bolt this year. However, because of this, Chevy will almost certainly raise the MSRP for 2023, and/or dealers will add big markups to cars delivered in 2023. As far as Tesla goes, they can basically charge whatever they want (and have). I suspect there will be a price hike for the cars that qualify purchased in 2023.
 
chutracheese said:
We have a Honda Clarity. It's a plug in hybrid. Feel it's the best of both worlds. We get around 43 miles of electric (temperature dependant) and then it switches to ice and get around 45mpg. On the last tank of gas we got over 1000 miles on only 6 gallon tank. Pretty good.
It drives great, super comfortable and roomy.
Perfect? No. Really great car for us? Yes!
Click to expand...
We have one too. Love the car. It is our long distance car. The only thing I don't love is the engine noise in stop and go traffic when it's out of electric charge, but if you manage things properly, that should hardly ever happen. I actually worry about it getting in an accident because there is really no replacement for it on the market right now, and finding a used one is very difficult.
 
Seen today

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Yes, this is big news! This brings Tesla prices back to where they were and adds the tax credit. They should see a big sales bump.
 
Bumping this year old thread as I might be needing a new car soon and have exploring the possibilities of going strictly EV as I drive about 400 miles a week (65 day on average) on the highway. It's appealing as the gas savings would be awesome especially coming from a V8 engine plus not having to worry about oil changes, etc. every few months would also be nice. I'm fine doing at home LVL 2 charging and only take a few mini road trips a year to the Gulf Coast and to Chicago so I'm less concerned about the extended charging network. I've been looking at the BMW i4 recently. As a car enthusiast I'm looking for something that will scratch that it and also have decent build quality and reliability when it's being used for the daily commute. Anyone here own one and can provide feedback or any other suggestions on vehicles that fit the bill that I should consider?
 
I4 don’t know much about haven’t heard anything bad though.

Alternatives that come to mind;
- Lucid air always catches my eyes on the street…haven’t been in one yet. Crazy good reviews from what I’ve seen

- Teslas are everywhere for a reason (good cars for great price)
 
I now have a 2023 Toyota BZ4x, which is basically identical to the Subaru Solterra.

The wheels haven’t fallen off.

After three months I am pretty happy with it, but my needs/habits are also pretty specific.

I wanted an electric with 4WD and good ground clearance for my snowy, muddy area. The interior is pretty spacious, and it handles well. It’s neither too basic nor terribly luxurious, but has a big touchscreen and moonroof.

The range is 240 miles, theoretically. However that’s really only in mild weather, when you’re not running the heat or A/C. It’s more like 190-200 in the deep cold right now.

If you are only driving 40-50 miles per day, as I do, this range is plenty. I only fully charge it up every three days or so.

If you need something for longer trips, you’re going to need to plan it out so you can hit a fast charger along the way. (These are few and far between in my rural area.) Or select an EV with better range.

I traded in my Prime to upgrade… I liked it a lot, but I was having to charge constantly to avoid spilling over to the gas motor.

I was intrigued by the Polestar design, but was not keen to buy a car where they do remote service, which seems iffy at this point. Also really liked the style of the Volvo EVs, but they are pricey and don’t have much range.
 
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I drove a VW ID.4 for 18 months before selling and taking delivery of a Rivian R1S shortly before Christmas. Ask me anything.
 
I'm looking at the Maverick at the moment. My wife has an ICE car if we needed to go on a long trip, but the Mav has the utility of a small pickup without being overly big to park in town. Plus it's VERY affordable for a new vehicle. They only make an ICE and a hybrid version at the moment though, and the hybrid isn't all wheel drive.
 
bergs said:
Not a huge fan of EVs and getting hit and burning up due to thermal runaway.
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Are you talking about you burning up? Thermal runaway in an electric car battery is certainly possible, but it's a more gradual progression than many gas car fires. Much more likely to burn in a gas car.
 
bergs said:
Not a huge fan of EVs and getting hit and burning up due to thermal runaway.
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There is so much EV misinformation, including this one. Tesla def needs to consider finally getting a PR and advertising dept.
 
bergs said:
They’re rare but very difficult to put out and usually fatal.
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Agree that they are rare and are difficult to put out. However, FDs are improving as they introduce better training. Haven't read anything about an increase in fatality rates
 
TheB00T said:
I drove a VW ID.4 for 18 months before selling and taking delivery of a Rivian R1S shortly before Christmas. Ask me anything.
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What turned you off the ID4? I've had a couple jettas and loved them so I was considering ID4 or VW bus when the time comes.
 
bergs said:
They’re rare but very difficult to put out and usually fatal.
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You're right about them being rare and difficult to put out. They can be a nightmare for fire departments to completely extinguish in some cases. I haven't seen statistics about fatalities, but it takes a while for thermal runaway to happen, so it makes no sense that fatalities would be higher.
 

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