Death of the $25 chip at WSOP? (1 Viewer)

[DoubleEagle]

Structure sheets are starting to show up on the WSOP tourney schedule page. With the advent of the big blind ante, it looks like there is no longer a need for $25 chips. All the structures posted have levels starting at $100-$100.

 

[davin]

I will have 400 racks of WSOP 25's for sale

just kidding i wish

 

[Matthew627]

I will have 400 racks of WSOP 25's for sale

just kidding i wish

SOLD!!

 

[Chris Manzoni]

All other tournaments beside no limit hold-em I would imagine would still have quarters. Fixed limit holdem and Omaha fix limit are ante free, and I don’t see how they could do a big blind ante in Stud games.

 

[BGinGA]

Actually, a button-posted table ante makes the most sense when used in stud games, and works surprisingly well. Much less so in games with blinds.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Actually, a button-posted table ante makes the most sense when used in stud games, and works surprisingly well. Much less so in games with blinds.

No bring-in?

 

[BGinGA]

Doesn't change any of the mechanics of stud, except who posts the antes.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Doesn't change any of the mechanics of stud, except who posts the antes.

Open to trying. I am a better stud8 player than regular stud. I also like Razz but no one will play it!

 

[BGinGA]

Open to trying. I am a better stud8 player than regular stud. I also like Razz but no one will play it!

Works better for cash games than tournaments, since players are never too short to post and still have chips to play.

I started our NLHE-only crowd out with HORSE, which introduced limit poker, Omaha, Razz, Stud, and hi/lo split-pot games all in a single swift blow. That transitioned to individual tournaments of each type, and eventually ran full league seasons of mixed limit games.

Most popular was the HORS league (NLHE, PLO8, Razz, Stud8) - three tournaments of each game, with the Championship game a rotating format of all four (which is a solid stand-alone tourney format).

Ever play Razzaho? Razz with community cards (flop with 4th street, turn with 5th street, river with 6th street). Split pot between best Razz hand and best Omaha hand using two of your three down cards with three on the bosrd. Can play fixed-limit or pot-limit, but PLR is not for the weak-of-heart. Less lethal in tournament format.

 

[BELGRADE]

I think is the best evolution for the WSOP

For several years I do not play with the T25 anymore...I start direct in T100-T100 or T100-T200 blind (much better imo).

 

[1A25R]

Last weekend some players where commenting on this change, it's the ante at the button a way to speed up the game ?

 

[stafil]

I think is the best evolution for the WSOP

For several years I do not play with the T25 anymore...I start direct in T100-T100 or T100-T200 blind (much better imo).

What’s the benefit of starting at T100 instead of T1?

What do we win with two extra 0s?

 

[BELGRADE]

What’s the benefit of starting at T100 instead of T1?

What do we win with two extra 0s?

I prefer to start in T100-T100 blind 1 hour (first step) and after 20 min every step when i'm playing in rebuy 1H ( stack T5000 with add on T10k).

Or start blind 100-200 in freez out deep stack (like T30k starting stack).
Or when my players whant's to play a omaha tournament, it's better (imo) to start without T25 chip.

 

[Coyote]

What’s the benefit of starting at T100 instead of T1?

What do we win with two extra 0s?

A. Illusion of grandeur (humans don't actually live their lives but their ideas about their lives, anyway)
B. Ultra secure separation between a cash set (1-5-20 or 25-100) and a tourney set (10-50-200 or 250-1000) of the same owner.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Last weekend some players where commenting on this change, it's the ante at the button a way to speed up the game ?

Ante on the big blind will allow for an additional 2-3 hands per hour in most cases.

 

[BGinGA]

What’s the benefit of starting at T100 instead of T1?

None. It's actually much worse.

A T1-base set uses T1, T5, T25, T100, and T500 denominations.

But a T100-base set (T100, T500, T1000, T5000, T25000) has less range (250x vs 500x) and must also endure the 2x jump between T500 and T1000, making it both less efficient and less versatile -- unless it's configured to use non-standard T100, T500, T2000, T10000, and T50000 denominations.

 

[BGinGA]

when my players whant's to play a omaha tournament, it's better (imo) to start without T25 chip.

Agreed, although a T1000-base set is better for that application than a T100-base set. Even a T500-base set works better, imo, although all are superior to a T25-base set.

 

[BGinGA]

I think is the best evolution for the WSOP

One of the worst decisions in recent history, and totally unnecessary as it 'fixes' a perceived problem but ignores the root cause, while introducing new issues that weren't present before.

Introduced for the benefit of venues, not players. I don't expect it to be a permanent fixture.

 

[andy699669]

With the 100-500-1000-5000-25000, not much 500 chips are required anyway and the 5000s (in 2-table tournaments at most anyway) becomes the powerhouse/muscle chip, you can go with 10x 100, 2x500, 8x1000, 10x 5000 for 60,000 stacks, more 5000s (and possibly 25000s) are for colour-ups.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Ever play Razzaho? Razz with community cards (flop with 4th street, turn with 5th street, river with 6th street). Split pot between best Razz hand and best Omaha hand using two of your three down cards with three on the bosrd. Can play fixed-limit or pot-limit, but PLR is not for the weak-of-heart. Less lethal in tournament format.

This sounds both disgusting and a helluva lot of fun. Does it say something about me that I want to try it at SQM?

 

[Kain8]

Works better for cash games than tournaments, since players are never too short to post and still have chips to play.

I started our NLHE-only crowd out with HORSE, which introduced limit poker, Omaha, Razz, Stud, and hi/lo split-pot games all in a single swift blow. That transitioned to individual tournaments of each type, and eventually ran full league seasons of mixed limit games.

Most popular was the HORS league (NLHE, PLO8, Razz, Stud8) - three tournaments of each game, with the Championship game a rotating format of all four (which is a solid stand-alone tourney format).

@timinater Hint hint

 

[CraigT78]

This sounds both disgusting and a helluva lot of fun. Does it say something about me that I want to try it at SQM?

View attachment 244253

POT!

 

[DoubleEagle]

Introduced for the benefit of venues, not players. I don't expect it to be a permanent fixture.

Not true. The Big Blind ante was introduced at the Aria at the request of the players.

Many in the industry credit ARIA as being the first poker room to implement the consolidated antes, starting with their high roller series. A player who had participated in a cash game using them recommended the format to ARIA Poker Tournament Director Paul Campbell, and he said he was willing to give it a trial run.

Campbell instituted the consolidated antes — though he moved them from the button to the big blind — in April 2017.

“The high roller players are very forward-thinking individuals, so despite being initially skeptical, they went into it with an open mind and were very instrumental in any adjustments,” Campbell said. “Conceptually, I liked it immediately and didn't have any tournament integrity issues with it. The high rollers have really embraced it as a superior format for their events.”

One year ago I predicted big blind antes would be adopted for all events in the 2019 WSOP. Many scoffed at such a absurd idea. Looks like I was right. Also, the Tournament Directors Association will be having their bi-annual meeting again this summer during the WSOP. My prediction; the big blind ante will be adopted by the TDA for all TDA events going forward.

 

[BELGRADE]

Introduced for the benefit of venues, not players. I don't expect it to be a permanent fixture.

For me is just a normal evolution.
99% of tournament didn"t use any more the T5 chip...it will be the same with the T25.

 

[Gobbs]

Not true. The Big Blind ante was introduced at the Aria at the request of the players.

Many in the industry credit ARIA as being the first poker room to implement the consolidated antes, starting with their high roller series. A player who had participated in a cash game using them recommended the format to ARIA Poker Tournament Director Paul Campbell, and he said he was willing to give it a trial run.

Campbell instituted the consolidated antes — though he moved them from the button to the big blind — in April 2017.

“The high roller players are very forward-thinking individuals, so despite being initially skeptical, they went into it with an open mind and were very instrumental in any adjustments,” Campbell said. “Conceptually, I liked it immediately and didn't have any tournament integrity issues with it. The high rollers have really embraced it as a superior format for their events.”

One year ago I predicted big blind antes would be adopted for all events in the 2019 WSOP. Many scoffed at such a absurd idea. Looks like I was right. Also, the Tournament Directors Association will be having their bi-annual meeting again this summer during the WSOP. My prediction; the big blind ante will be adopted by the TDA for all TDA events going forward.

You are kind of mixing apples and oranges here. If I’m not mistaken, it was introduced in a high-stakes cash game at players’ request, but the introduction of this in tournaments is a completely different animal with problems discussed in other threads that don’t need to be discussed again. Bottom line, venues have convinced players that it’s a necessary fix when it doesn’t even address the real cause of the problem while adding other problems. How well do you think this is going to go over the first time a player is almost felted, has just enough to ante the next hand, wins the hand after there were five players in the hand, and only wins back his ante?

 

[1A25R]

what's the "the real cause of the problem " ?

 

[Gobbs]

what's the "the real cause of the problem " ?

First, what’s the problem? Define that and the cause becomes quite clear.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Introduced for the benefit of venues, not players. I don't expect it to be a permanent fixture.

In my experience, the WSOP isn't about the players. It's about profit, which is about the venue.

The WSOP will listen to some pros. The pros don't have issues with the BBA. If a pro is near-felted to 1 BB they call that variance. Any result after that is immaterial.

I am sure that Jack Effel looked at the WSOP video where there was an argument over whether or not a player paid his ante. As the WSOP has some of the shittiest dealers you will ever encounter (an I am including home games in that statement), the BBA helps prevent a repeat of that problem.

I am still officially neutral on the BBA. As you know I am working on a BBA structure for my home game, because I also believe this where ante structures are headed. It is seemingly easier to fudge the rules than it is to train the dealers to properly collect antes. I don't have to agree that it's the right thing (because it's not), but I expect to see it more often in the future.

 

[Frogzilla]

How well do you think this is going to go over the first time a player is almost felted, has just enough to ante the next hand, wins the hand after there were five players in the hand, and only wins back his ante?

These formats are no longer that new...some of last years events had BBA, some of the circuit events have been phasing in BBA, high roller bowl, etc. So the scenarios you describe either aren’t frequent enough or damaging enough to matter as they are rolling out to more and more tournaments, presumably on the positive feedback from dealers and players.

I personally think they aren’t nearly as damaging. Even the one example you give, a different perspective is the player played ante-free for several hands preceding the all-in, and had the opportunity to win much more each time. He came out way ahead...but wasn’t able to capitalize. In the end, he just won a round of antes, same as the normal format.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

The delusion ITT is hilarious. BBA is now the standard because players love it, not because of some nefarious corporate conspiracy. I play lots of tournaments, over a hundred a year, in card rooms, home games and my local Moose lodge. The only location where I’ve heard a comment or two that may be construed as negative is at the Moose where the average age is around 65. The LAPC, the WSOP circuit, and dailies at Commerce, The Bike and Hollywood Park - all locations I’ve heard nothing but positive or neutral feedback, mostly positive. It simplifies and speeds up the game, that’s it. It’s not complicated or that big a deal.