Chanman Poker Tables is rebranding (1 Viewer)

T_Chan

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As the title says, I'm rebranding my company. "Chanman" I've found is a bit too personal. I have however built up a reputation, which I'd like to think is positive, and want to preserve that moving forward so I've decided to rebrand my company to CM Poker Tables. I originally wanted to rename the company to North West Gaming Supplies since I'm building other types of tables and have accessories as well. But NWGS doesn't tie into Chanman in any way. I'm also trying to shorten the name rather than lengthen it.

Onto the logo. I'm looking for some ideas and feedback in regards to design. I'd like to include some sort of BC and/or Canada into the logo such as the Rocky Mountains or maple leaf. I was thinking of making my logo into a chip like my previous logo which I would then hand out as business cards a la Moscow. I'd like to keep it simplistic. Not too busy but something iconic that would be easily recognizable when seen such as the Pokerstars logo which is just a spade with a star in the middle.

My current logo:



Here's some logos that I like but obviously don't want to copy.









 

BGinGA

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I'm no artist, but I'd play around with the CM initials in fancy text/orientation. I really like that last "K" logo.

I'd also advise considering going with something along the lines of CM Custom Poker Tables & Supplies (vs just Tables), if that better reflects your business direction. People looking for supplies will likely pass over a vendor they perceive as only a table-builder, and those looking for a custom table typically don't search out a poker supplies vendor. I know it's longer, but will be less of an issue if you can brand your new CM logo properly.

Personally, I'd keep the 'Chanman' brand -- it already has a great reputation and is easily remembered -- but understand why you'd like to keep the two separate.
 

Mr. Cheese

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If you build other types of tables I would go with something like CM Gaming Tables so people don't just think you only make poker tables. Just my .02 :)
 

Tommy

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Dominos Pizza is now just Dominos.
Chanman Poker Tables to just Chanman? :D

Having a personal company image/name is a good thing IMO.
ABC Poker Tables? No way, I'm buying from Chanman!

Whatever you decided, your quality tables/work and rep will always be there!
 

atomiktoaster

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CM Poker Tables or Gaming or Poker Supplies is pretty generic. Maybe you could pick something snappier, and add "by Tony Chan" for a year or two and gradually transition to the new brand as it picks up speed. Mountain Maple Gaming by Tony Chan? That one actually has alliteration, for moose (chanman is a plain ol' rhyme ;)).
 

T_Chan

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Thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I orginally used Chanman because it's catchy and easy to remember. I can tell people I meet to just google Chanman Poker to find info rather than telling them to go to chanmanpokertables.com.

I've thought about going with "gaming tables" or "casino tables" since as mentioned, I don't build just poker tables. Poker tables though, is my bread and butter. My website shows that I build all types of tables as well as accessories which I think is enough.

Though I'm not trying to become more generic, I'm also trying to get my persona away from the company as I am starting to employ people who work with me and eventually do the work for me. I'll be supervising all work of course to ensure my standards are still met with anything that goes out the door. This is one of the main reasons for the re-branding as well as thinking long-tern in regards to saleability of the business.

P5woody took note of this thread and sent me a couple of mock ups. They look like they're heading the direction I'm looking for.





Oh and Mez, I should be there for your game.
 
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p5woody

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Playing around a little this morning, one more update.

test8.png


test10.png
 
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Poker Zombie

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I really like the "& More".

When I see "CM", or any other nonsensical letters, I try to make sense out of them. For example "ABC Products" says "My product isn't very good, but I hope you will look no further the first entry in the phone book" (even though only as caveman would still look for a business in a phone book. "AAAAA Products says "We're even worse than ABC, so we're really desperate."

CM (with the maple leaf) reads to me as "Canadian Made", and I know it's just shortening the Chanman name.

Of course, I Googled CM Poker tables. Before I finished typing, it gave me CM Poker Supplies, a seemingly dead business out of Texas. It may cost you some prospective clients who think "This guy cannot manage a website". His Facebook page also prominently displays dice chips. This might be digitally akin to setting up a good shop in a bad neighborhood.
 
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pltrgyst

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I also think you'd be very foolish to give up the ChanMan name, especially for nondescript initials. No matter the field, you will never develop a unique identity using two or three letters.

You have accumulated good will and reputation. In the poker world, you also have the suggestion (whether it's has any basis in fact or not) of a connection with Johnny Chan.

Imagined considerations like "thinking long-tern in regards to saleability of the business" are nonsense. There are many major commercial successes whose current owners have no connection whatsoever with the founders.

I'd suggest you keep the family name and concentrate on the rest of the business name or subtitle, as has been suggested -- on the order of like "Poker Tables and More." Perhaps in place of "more," you might come up with something more defining, such as "custom wood furniture", etc.

Best of luck with the business!
 

Ben

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I also think you'd be very foolish to give up the ChanMan name, especially for nondescript initials. No matter the field, you will never develop a unique identity using two or three letters.

^^This. Seriously man, I'm not sure if you even know how widespread your reputation is, and a lot of that is directly attributable to the name. People who hear about "Chanman Poker Tables" don't forget about it - random players in Nashville who have never built a table know who Chanman is. My friend Ernie (ER poker tables) will be talking about tables and mention you in passing, and nobody bats an eye - everybody knows who that is. Now THAT increases saleability! :cool:
 

BGinGA

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No matter the field, you will never develop a unique identity using two or three letters.

Although your point is well-taken (and I agree completely), these folks might disagree with you:

3M
IBM
CAT
ASM
BASF

.... just to name a few.
 

T_Chan

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I tried toying around with using M into mountains but I'm not pulling it off very well. My efforts make the logo more and more complex which I'm trying to get away from.

Interesting to know that you got results for CM poker supplies, I will have to keep this in mind. When I search CM Poker I get nothing related except for other poker companies and suppliers that don't have CM affiliated with their names.

I'm glad I opened up this discussion as I'm getting some great feedback. I am a big fan of the "& more" and will likely use it whether I rebrand to CM or keep Chanman.

I do plan on keeping the Chanman business name but it will simply be CM Poker Tables operating as Chanman Poker Tables or vice versa. I don't want anyone who hears of Chanman to search for me and not find any results. But I would introduce my company as CM going forward.

Thanks for the latest version p5, I'm liking the maple leaf in the middle more than the previous iterations.

I'm trying to evolve as my company grows and the rebranding makes sense to me, though from the feedback I'm getting I could have a change of heart.
 
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T_Chan. Keeping the chanman poker makes sense. Look at other companies and they have a very personal touch. Harley Davidson comes to mind. Both last names of the founders. If this is your brand tweak it don't go for the all out change. Your biggest asset as a company is your brand.
 

pltrgyst

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BGinGA keyed open a small tin of red herrings ;) :

3M - Granted, but includes a number. And many -- if not most -- people still think it means Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing.
IBM - Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. And many -- if not most -- people still think it means International Business Machines..
CAT - Computerized Axial Tomography.
ASM - (Who???) Assembler language.
BASF - A chemical company that most non-chemists probably know of for magnetic tape products.

Most of those are stock market-based derivative names, whose public fame was not achieved under those initials as their legal names.

I believe my contention is best illustrated that there are over 1,500 live registered US trademarks for "CM". Zero for "chanman". How many Canadian, I don't know, but I rest my case.
 

T_Chan

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I haven't done a craps table yet but I'm eager to build one. I am building a replacement playing surface for my local casino for their massive craps table. And yeah, Chanman craps aint the greatest...
 

Mesnik44

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Hey Tony,

I'm by no means any type of artist, but I thought I'd toss out my idea.
 

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BGinGA

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"poker tables and more" just doesn't cut it for me...... it seems too plain, and doesn't capture the elegance, quality workmanship, and upscale customization of chanman's work. Sounds run-of-the-mill.

Maybe "custom gaming tables and more"
 

BGinGA

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I like the 'by Chanman' tag line a lot. Ties the old and new together.
 

Mental Nomad

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BGinGA keyed open a small tin of red herrings ;) :

3M - Granted, but includes a number. And many -- if not most -- people still think it means Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing.
IBM - Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. And many -- if not most -- people still think it means International Business Machines..
CAT - Computerized Axial Tomography.
ASM - (Who???) Assembler language.
BASF - A chemical company that most non-chemists probably know of for magnetic tape products.

Most of those are stock market-based derivative names, whose public fame was not achieved under those initials as their legal names.

I believe my contention is best illustrated that there are over 1,500 live registered US trademarks for "CM". Zero for "chanman". How many Canadian, I don't know, but I rest my case.

Right. A little more detail:

Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing quickly became known as "Three M" because the name is so long, and because ever other word in their name was generic... and because of the spectacular failure of their original business plan! They meant to mine the mineral used to make grinding wheels. They sold their first load of ore and incorporated the company... and then learned that they sold the wrong mineral. Their stuff was worthless, and their mineral rights were worthless. But the market was good, so they imported the right minerals, processed and re-sold them... and referred to themselves as 3M. Their first break-out product was abrasive in a cloth band, called "Three-M-ite." Their stock symbol later became MMM.

International Business Machines made tabulating machines, time clocks, scales... for years, they had their initials, IBM, on product, but didn't change their name until fairly recently. The company is about 125 years old, and about 100 years of that were as International Business Machines.

CAT is a brand owned and used by the company still using the name, Caterpillar, Inc.

Advanced Semiconductor Materials was, I believe, created as ASM - but this was probably in part because it was a Dutch company. You don't want to try to pronounce Dutch. But a lot of people know them as Advanced Semiconductor Materials. I wonder if the original version is English, or Dutch...

BASF - Badische Anilin- und Soda-Fabrik - definitely German. And, like Dutch, you don't want to pronounce it. Badische Anilin- und Soda-Fabrik was a place in Baden that handled anline dye and soda fabrication. Germans are very descriptive in their names, but they take too long to say, especially for foreigners. They worked under BASF as a trademark long before changing their name.

My point? All of these companies either:
1. Made their reputation under a longer name before changing it.
2. Had an absurdly unwieldy name before changing it.
3. Had a spectacular failure to shake from their reputation, so they changed it.

Chanman, on the other hand, has a solid reputation, and rolls right off the tongue. In fact, even if you change the name to anything with "CM" in it, and even if you call it, "Canadian Mountain"... we will probably all refer to it, with affection, as a Chanman table.

I think you should think long and hard before re-branding the comapny/name just because it's personal. Here are a few companies still running under the names of their founders(s):

Walmart
Daimler
Ford
Dow Chemical (2nd biggest after BASF)
Honda
Cargill
McKesson
Pfizer
Schering-Plough
Smith & Wesson
Steinway & Sons

And these are all companies that make and sell stuff - not investment banks and service companies - and they're among the biggest and best-known companies in the world.

If your products are all going to be made under your personal supervision and made to your personal standards, don't be afraid to have your name on it. There are a lot of us who still respect the craftsman ethic, and that means being willing to put your name on it is a sign that you believe in the quality of your product.
 

Mental Nomad

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And if you do re-brand - you're allowed to, and I'll respect that - consider keeping the name ChanMan, but producing under a CM-based trademark.

Something like - CMT - ChanMan Tables.

CMT
Tables & Gaming Supplies
The Original Chanman Table
This lets you formalize the CMT name for your company, while preserving a very positive legacy.

Whichever way you go - best of luck!
 
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