Calling all PCF runners (2 Viewers)

[Eriks]

I’ve been working on increasing the cadence and I try to focus on good posture and leaning slightly forward. No idea if I’m doing a good job or not but it tends to make me forget how tired I am at least.

 

[Mr Winberg]

I've heard that a cadence around 180 should be good. Mine is usually below 170. I've found some playlists on spotify with 180 bpm that I'm gonna try, should help me fix that problem. A colleague of mine breathes in during 3 steps then out during 3, he says it helps him keep the right cadence.

 

[Eriks]

I've heard that a cadence around 180 should be good. Mine is usually below 170. I've found some playlists on spotify with 180 bpm that I'm gonna try, should help me fix that problem. A colleague of mine breathes in during 3 steps then out during 3, he says it helps him keep the right cadence.

I’m around that as well. Mine usually goes up towards the end when I’m tired and start focusing more on technique

 

[Eriks]

A colleague of mine breathes in during 3 steps then out during 3, he says it helps him keep the right cadence.

Will have to try this

 

[Mr Winberg]

Will have to try this

He says it helps keep his pulse down as well. I'll try next time I can run properly, hopefully in a week.

Regarding keeping your pulse down, I've had a real measurable effect listening to First Aid Kit during my long runs. Regardless of what you think about the music, there's no debate that that shit is like brain massage! Gets you in a relaxed trans!

 

[Eriks]

I’m one of those weirdos that run without music in my ears. It’s one of the few times where there’s no stimuli added. No screen, no sound, no nothing. I just enjoy that.

I do like First aid kit, though

 

[Eriks]

Pretty good one today, getting up there. Nice weather too, premier run in shorts and t-shirt

 

[Mr Winberg]

Still can't run. I've tried short test runs but there's too much pain. I've soon lost 4 weeks of training, and even if I can run soon I'll pretty much be starting over.

Is a marathon still achievable? I'm thinking that since I managed a half-marathon under 2 hours after just a few weeks training I should be able to get back to at least that form, if I can get back to running within a few weeks. And on the race day, if I just "man up" I should get through the second half as well.

Or should I admit defeat?

 

[Eriks]

Oh man that sucks…

Hard to say, I would probably still try but I know what it’s like to hit the brick wall during a race (presumably due to lack of training). Mine was just a half marathon though and the wall appeared with 7k to go. I battled through but my time goal went to shit and it couldn’t have been pretty.

Plus you gotta leave some energy for poker afterwards

 

[Mr Winberg]

I got a cortisone injection in my heal yesterday because the bursitis isn't healing as it should (no pun intended). So now I'm supposed to rest for another 10 days. Then I get to gradually start running over the course of a week. If all goes to plan, my first "real" run will be 2.5 weeks before the marathon. So I'd like to amend my original question:

What's the verdict from all you xberts, is 15 2 weeks of training enough to finish a marathon?

 

[Eriks]

Sorry man…If you have any goals with the race other than barely making it through alive, I would probably reconsider at this point. There’ll be other races.

 

[Mr Winberg]

probably

 

[Eriks]

 

[Mr Winberg]

View attachment 1126100

 

[Eriks]

Will be pacing my daughter for ”Söder runt” tonight. A 10k race around ”Södermalm”, one of the islands making up the central parts of Stockholm.

She could probably do it in under 50 minutes if really pushed but I don’t wanna completely ruin her first race experience (current pb while training is 55 minutes) Shooting for sub 52 this time.

 

[Mr Winberg]

Will be pacing my daughter for ”Söder runt” tonight. A 10k race around ”Södermalm”, one of the islands making up the central parts of Stockholm.

She could probably do it in under 50 minutes if really pushed but I don’t wanna completely ruin her first race experience (current pb while training is 55 minutes) Shooting for sub 52 this time.

View attachment 1148840

 

[Mr Winberg]

Will be pacing my daughter for ”Söder runt” tonight. A 10k race around ”Södermalm”, one of the islands making up the central parts of Stockholm.

She could probably do it in under 50 minutes if really pushed but I don’t wanna completely ruin her first race experience (current pb while training is 55 minutes) Shooting for sub 52 this time.

View attachment 1148840

Nice! Proud dad moment I reckon? Looking forward to doing the same when the time comes.

 

[Eriks]

Nice! Proud dad moment I reckon? Looking forward to doing the same when the time comes.

Very much so. A little race report: course was amazing with every inch along side the water. Zero meters going uphill - this will be the race when I’m ready to go for my own pb eventually.

Everything went fine until about 4.5 kms in and then she had to REALLY struggle for 2.5 kms. We had to slow down and I thought we would fall through completely. At 7 km she apparently found new strength though and we were able to get back into pace and even a bit faster. In the end she was just 10 seconds shy of our goal time, official time 52:10. PB with exactly 3 minutes! Couldn’t be prouder!

Before:

And after:

 

[Mr Winberg]

Great job, mini-@Eriks! It takes "pannben" to turn things around like that!

 

[Freudeus]

So close to goal time in spite of those struggles, that's a great achievement! Fantastic effort

 

[Eriks]

Great job, mini-@Eriks! It takes "pannben" to turn things around like that!

Definitely! She has it after her dad. I’m a stubborn bastard

 

[FordPickup92]

Very much so. A little race report: course was amazing with every inch along side the water. Zero meters going uphill - this will be the race when I’m ready to go for my own pb eventually.

Everything went fine until about 4.5 kms in and then she had to REALLY struggle for 2.5 kms. We had to slow down and I thought we would fall through completely. At 7 km she apparently found new strength though and we were able to get back into pace and even a bit faster. In the end she was just 10 seconds shy of our goal time, official time 52:10. PB with exactly 3 minutes! Couldn’t be prouder!

Before:

View attachment 1149059

And after:

View attachment 1149060

Awesome!! Congratulations to you both!!! #prouddad

 

[Mr Winberg]

So here's a race report from Stockholm Marathon, my first Marathon ever! The longest I had run before signing up was around 14km.

I did a 2-for-1 and joined the Stockholm Syndrome meetup and ran the marathon on the same weekend.

To make it readable for those not interested in the details (i.e. everyone except @Erics?) I have used spoilers as an executive summary.

Spoiler: I signed up 16 weeks before the race

I started a training regime from garmin involving 1 long run along with 3 other running sessions per week. My goal was to run sub 3:30 and I followed the regime to the letter. I had never done long runs before, running at a low pace, often past half marathon distances, was a new experience. Instead of getting winded like I'm used to I got fatigued in my muscles, ligaments etc.

Spoiler: Got injured, lost 9 weeks training

I bought new shoes (big mistake this close to a race!!) for running on snow which didn't fit in my heels, so I developed heel bursitis. After a bunch of weeks resting and taking anti-inflammatory pills without change I got a cortisone shot. I was pain free after 7 days and started a 10 day long rehab program before my first "real run", 9 weeks after injury. 3 to go.

Spoiler: I got back to training 3 weeks before the marathon

My 7 training runs post injury were a 6.5km, a 10km, two high intensity interval runs, a local 10km race (43m32s, the worst I've done in that race since 2014) then a 4 km low intensity. I was going to do a long run on the Saturday (exactly one week before the marathon) but I postponed it to Monday due to a mini-cold. Yes, of course I got a cold as well!!

Spoiler: Go/No-go decision

The Monday before the race I did my only long run since the injury. Instead of running a certain time or distance I decided to run until I felt some kind of aches, this to see whether or not I was fit to run 42km. I quit after 13km feeling sore in my hip flexors. I decided that I will not complete the marathon. But since it's paid and I'll be there anyway I might as well start in it.

Spoiler: The plan to run 23 km

I knew I could run half the distance, so I found a good spot to abort the race. It would be a short walk to the train station, so I can have all my clothes there in a locker and take the train back to the meetup, win the main event, then destroy everyone in the cash game.

Spoiler: The start

@Eriks was kind enough to give my a ride early Saturday morning to the Södertälje (S-uh-durr-tell-yeah) train station.

I got to Stockholm, locked my clothes in a locker at the train station, then took a subway to the starting area. Found my colleague Karl and decided to run with him.

Lots of people racing, about 13000!

Spoiler: First 20 km I was goofing off

Since I wasn't going to complete the race I decided to have fun! High fiving the croud, talking with Karl and other racers, chatting on messenger, posting to PCF, filming, making gifs of films and sending to people. At one point Karl dropped one of his energy-gels, so I turned around and got it for him. After all, he was going the distance so his race was more important than mine.

Goofing

Filming

High fiving

All the while, Karl is trying to convince me to complete the race.

Spoiler: The point of no return

When we approach 23km Karl's like "You aren't bailing, right??" and the crowd was amazing right there, so I decided to push on!

I sent a PCF pm to the meetup group chat not to wait for me. They were kind enough to respond that they allowed me to do a late entry.

Anything to attract the fish, I guess...

Spoiler: It's on!!

So I put on my game face and decide on a plan. Karl tells me to push without him but I decide to keep his pace and to go into high gear the last 5 km.

However, at 33 km the pace runners for 4 hours run past us. They are running for a 4 hour time from the official start, whereas our official race times will be from when we passed the starting line, about 4 minutes after the start for Karl and I. So I figure that if I can keep them in my sights, I'll make it under 4h start to finish! So I join them, but Karl decides against it.

Spoiler: I hit the wall...

....or at least a fence. I find it very hard to keep up with the pacers. At 37 km I'm 20 meters behind. At 38 I'm 50.

I can't seem to be able to systematically regain my lost ground, so I gamble and sprint up right next to them, then I use all my will power to lock myself to them side by side. Just a few more km... Swedes will understand: "Kliv....kliv....överlev!"

Spoiler: The sprint

Outside the stadium with a few hundred meters left one of the pace runners yells "This is where you sprint!". I've always been a very strong finisher, so I leave them in my dust!

Then I enter the stadium which is packed with spectators! More energy! And no more concrete, now the surface is super springy!! The adrenaline!! The rush!! The last 100 meters are at a 3:30 min/km pace, it feels like I'm flying!

I focus on a dude in a white shirt that I under no circumstances will lose to and dive over the finishing line in front of him, almost hitting a red finishing obstacle!

Found it on tv:

Spoiler: The result

My official time was 3:55:27 line to line (3:59:14 gun to line), and I'm very pleased with this considering my journey. I'm even more pleased that I don't seem to have picked up any injuries (knock on wood).

Happy camper

I waited for Karl and we collected our medals and other finisher freebies. We had to walk down a flight of stairs, it was super fun watching runners try to get down until it was our turn...holy sh*t! Some good advice is to walk down backwards.

Now all I had to do was get changed. Were are my clothes...? Oh, right. The train station

Spoiler: Back to destroying the meetup

I was the second player to be eliminated from the main event, then I donated 1000 kr in the cash game. No comments.

 

[Highli99]

Congrats! Finishing a marathon is really special accomplishment! Well done!!!

 

[Eriks]

So here's a race report from Stockholm Marathon, my first Marathon ever! The longest I had run before signing up was around 14km.

I did a 2-for-1 and joined the Stockholm Syndrome meetup and ran the marathon on the same weekend.

To make it readable for those not interested in the details (i.e. everyone except @Erics?) I have used spoilers as an executive summary.

Spoiler: I signed up 16 weeks before the race

I started a training regime from garmin involving 1 long run along with 3 other running sessions per week. My goal was to run sub 3:30 and I followed the regime to the letter. I had never done long runs before, running at a low pace, often past half marathon distances, was a new experience. Instead of getting winded like I'm used to I got fatigued in my muscles, ligaments etc.

Spoiler: Got injured, lost 9 weeks training

I bought new shoes (big mistake this close to a race!!) for running on snow which didn't fit in my heels, so I developed heel bursitis. After a bunch of weeks resting and taking anti-inflammatory pills without change I got a cortisone shot. I was pain free after 7 days and started a 10 day long rehab program before my first "real run", 9 weeks after injury. 3 to go.

Spoiler: I got back to training 3 weeks before the marathon

My 7 training runs post injury were a 6.5km, a 10km, two high intensity interval runs, a local 10km race (43m32s, the worst I've done in that race since 2014) then a 4 km low intensity. I was going to do a long run on the Saturday (exactly one week before the marathon) but I postponed it to Monday due to a mini-cold. Yes, of course I got a cold as well!!

Spoiler: Go/No-go decision

The Monday before the race I did my only long run since the injury. Instead of running a certain time or distance I decided to run until I felt some kind of aches, this to see whether or not I was fit to run 42km. I quit after 13km feeling sore in my hip flexors. I decided that I will not complete the marathon. But since it's paid and I'll be there anyway I might as well start in it.

Spoiler: The plan to run 23 km

I knew I could run half the distance, so I found a good spot to abort the race. It would be a short walk to the train station, so I can have all my clothes there in a locker and take the train back to the meetup, win the main event, then destroy everyone in the cash game.
View attachment 1149117

Spoiler: The start

@Eriks was kind enough to give my a ride early Saturday morning to the Södertälje (S-uh-durr-tell-yeah) train station.

I got to Stockholm, locked my clothes in a locker at the train station, then took a subway to the starting area. Found my colleague Karl and decided to run with him.

Lots of people racing, about 13000!
View attachment 1149123
View attachment 1149129

Spoiler: First 20 km I was goofing off

Since I wasn't going to complete the race I decided to have fun! High fiving the croud, talking with Karl and other racers, chatting on messenger, posting to PCF, filming, making gifs of films and sending to people. At one point Karl dropped one of his energy-gels, so I turned around and got it for him. After all, he was going the distance so his race was more important than mine.

Goofing
View attachment 1149165

Filming
View attachment 1149166

High fiving
View attachment 1149146

All the while, Karl is trying to convince me to complete the race.

Spoiler: The point of no return

When we approach 23km Karl's like "You aren't bailing, right??" and the crowd was amazing right there, so I decided to push on!

I sent a PCF pm to the meetup group chat not to wait for me. They were kind enough to respond that they allowed me to do a late entry.

Anything to attract the fish, I guess...

Spoiler: It's on!!

So I put on my game face and decide on a plan. Karl tells me to push without him but I decide to keep his pace and to go into high gear the last 5 km.

However, at 33 km the pace runners for 4 hours run past us. They are running for a 4 hour time from the official start, whereas our official race times will be from when we passed the starting line, about 4 minutes after the start for Karl and I. So I figure that if I can keep them in my sights, I'll make it under 4h start to finish! So I join them, but Karl decides against it.

Spoiler: I hit the wall...

....or at least a fence. I find it very hard to keep up with the pacers. At 37 km I'm 20 meters behind. At 38 I'm 50.

I can't seem to be able to systematically regain my lost ground, so I gamble and sprint up right next to them, then I use all my will power to lock myself to them side by side. Just a few more km... Swedes will understand: "Kliv....kliv....överlev!"

Spoiler: The sprint

Outside the stadium with a few hundred meters left one of the pace runners yells "This is where you sprint!". I've always been a very strong finisher, so I leave them in my dust!

Then I enter the stadium which is packed with spectators! More energy! And no more concrete, now the surface is super springy!! The adrenaline!! The rush!! The last 100 meters are at a 3:30 min/km pace, it feels like I'm flying!

I focus on a dude in a white shirt that I under no circumstances will lose to and dive over the finishing line in front of him, almost hitting a red finishing obstacle!

Found it on tv:
View attachment 1149162

Spoiler: The result

My official time was 3:55:27 line to line (3:59:14 gun to line), and I'm very pleased with this considering my journey. I'm even more pleased that I don't seem to have picked up any injuries (knock on wood).

Happy camper
View attachment 1149163

I waited for Karl and we collected our medals and other finisher freebies. We had to walk down a flight of stairs, it was super fun watching runners try to get down until it was our turn...holy sh*t! Some good advice is to walk down backwards.

Now all I had to do was get changed. Were are my clothes...? Oh, right. The train station

Spoiler: Back to destroying the meetup

I was the second player to be eliminated from the main event, then I donated 1000 kr in the cash game. No comments.

I’m probably beat in the stubborn bastard/”pannben” department. Awesome race report and congrats again on an amazing performance!

 

[Mr Winberg]

So technique actually matters, who would have thought?

The physical therapist who helped me with my heal turned out to be a real expert on running related injuries and such. He could tell by just looking at where the skin on my feet was worn out that my running technique was really bad. More so, he said that I have a lot of predictors for more injuries based on a bunch of physical factors in my lower legs and feet, which will probably show themselves soon unless my technique changes.

So I convinced the manager of my office that we should invest in a session with a running coach so that the office's runners (and more importantly: I) can learn proper running technique. He said he'll pay the bill if I handle all practicalities.

The session was great! We went through 7 technical details, and right then and there I could feel that this was something good that I will be focusing on from now in.

Two days ago I had my first run:

(3.84 miles)

This was a short "zone 2" run, i.e. "conversation pace", and I was thinking about the 7 items throughout. I usually run at a pace of around 5:40-5:50 minutes per kilometer when in zone 2, but now it was 5:25!

Also, my average cadence was at 173 steps/minute rather than my normal 165-ish!

Tonight I'm doing a threshold interval run, I'm really excited to see if things improve there as well!

 

[Eriks]

So technique actually matters, who would have thought?

The physical therapist who helped me with my heal turned out to be a real expert on running related injuries and such. He could tell by just looking at where the skin on my feet was worn out that my running technique was really bad. More so, he said that I have a lot of predictors for more injuries based on a bunch of physical factors in my lower legs and feet, which will probably show themselves soon unless my technique changes.

So I convinced the manager of my office that we should invest in a session with a running coach so that the office's runners (and more importantly: I) can learn proper running technique. He said he'll pay the bill if I handle all practicalities.

The session was great! We went through 7 technical details, and right then and there I could feel that this was something good that I will be focusing on from now in.

Two days ago I had my first run:
View attachment 1158921
(3.84 miles)

This was a short "zone 2" run, i.e. "conversation pace", and I was thinking about the 7 items throughout. I usually run at a pace of around 5:40-5:50 minutes per kilometer when in zone 2, but now it was 5:25!

Also, my average cadence was at 173 steps/minute rather than my normal 165-ish!

Tonight I'm doing a threshold interval run, I'm really excited to see if things improve there as well!

Very interesting! Would love to hear more about this. Great boss too

 

[Mr Winberg]

Would love to hear more about this.

I'll post a summary tomorrow.

Great boss too

Yeah, I agree.

In general (not my company specifically) I've found that if I have a suggestion that has sufficient "bang for the buck" then they usually agree if I facilitate everything. Like "you should do X, it only costs Y" usually gets you nowhere. "I'll take care of X, but you'll have to sign off a cost of Y" usually gets you a signature.

Tonight I'm doing a threshold interval run, I'm really excited to see if things improve there as well!

5×5 minutes in zone 4 (the threshold zone). It felt great! I feel more effective. Everytime I fall back into my old style I can feel the extra strain. It's hard to compare data from various interval runs, but on a similar run I did a while back my average cadence was 168, now it was 175, so at least that's something!

 

[Mr Winberg]

Very interesting! Would love to hear more about this.

I'll post a summary tomorrow.

Alright, here it goes. It's for those who haven't thought about technique before. I guess those who are more advanced will roll their eyes at it.

The coach had us run about 40 meters and back again at an easy pace. Then she told us about a specific technical detail and had us run back and forth a single time where we tried to implemented it.

Then she gave a second advice, had us run again where we needed to focus on both the first and secon item. This continued until the seventh, where we were trying to implement all seven.

I've written the above because I felt that this was a very good way to feel the benefit of each item. Throughout, not only did I feel I was running better and better, but the whole group ran noticeably faster and with a higher cadence.

The items where:

1: Make yourself tall, keep your head up high!

2: Eyes forward, not down. Look at where you want to go, not at the ground.

3: This was about leaning forward, but she had a very good way of doing it. I have tried to lean before but I guess I have leaned at the hip, because I've felt no benefit. She said to lean at the ankles. The way she presented it was to pretend that you're on a segway and with a straight body lean forward until you fall forward. When you feel like falling, that's when you start running. When running, you should be leaning so that you'd fall if you weren't running. Pace dependent, of course.

The combination of 1-3 alone made a big difference for me, but it gets better.

4. The floor is as hot add hell! You'll burn unless you get those feet up quickly!

5. Step below yourself, not in front. I've never been able to do this even though I've definitely tried, but thanks to an elongated body (#1+#2) that's leaning at the ankle (#3) and a short contact time with the ground (#4) I could now achieve this!

A side note is that although she recognizes that there's a debate on mid-foot strike vs toe strike, she recommended us novices to land "under the laces" (i.e. a mid-foot strike).

6. She wasn't concrete about how, but here we were supposed to actively think about what we do with our feet behind us, after the strike. That we don't just strike and then move the leg forward again, but have some sort of "kick" behind us.

When I got #5 and #6 right, it tied together nicely with something the physical therapist said, that "all running should take place behind you".

7: Actively use your arms, although relaxed. Back and forth, no unnecessary side way motions. This did nothing for me as I already do this well.

That's it. Hopefully someone will find it useful.

Ps: To simplify, I've merged a few so that I only need to think about 4 when running:

1: Elongated body with eyes forward
2: Segway leaning
3: Hot floor which I should strike beneath myself.
4: The "kick"

If you don't work your arms right, add that as #5.

 

[Eriks]

This is great stuff! And very nicely described. I recognize a few of them but I have never really actively tried to implement them (”I’m such a good runner, by default”) unless when hurting and needing to move focus.

Will definitely give this a try, thanks!