Best deck of plastics (4 Viewers)

[Phyffe]

FYP

Interesting you mentioned Stinky. PVC tends to give that plasticky smell fresh from the box. Acetate begins to smell once it starts flaking/degrading

 

[Phyffe]

That ok but remember that technology of production for different cards vary a lot. Using from one to four layers of material.

Point taken. The smelly part for Acetate runs true mostly for Kems. As much as we hate Modiano on this forum, I find their PAs a more durable product than Kem Arrows. (don't hurt me!!!)

 

[surfik]

Point taken. The smelly part for Acetate runs true mostly for Kems. As much as we hate Modiano on this forum, I find their PAs a more durable product than Kem Arrows. (don't hurt me!!!)

I agree, like them both. Still very different cards. About durability.... Depends on circumstances

 

[TheDuke]

Comparing PVC and Acetate is an apples vs. oranges comparison. They are radically different. People who tend to like PVC (myself) don't necessarily like PVC but hate Acetate. People who like Acetate don't necessarily like Acetate but hate PVC.

So you're saying most people don't really like PVC or acetate cards but settle for one or the other because they view the alternative as a terrible choice? You're saying people don't actually like plastic cards at all? What's the preference... paper cards?

 

[tabletalker7]

So you're saying most people don't really like PVC or acetate cards but settle for one or the other because they view the alternative as a terrible choice? You're saying people don't actually like plastic cards at all? What's the preference... paper cards?

Everyone I know prefers plastic cards. But it isn't about liking PVC for me as much as HATING acetate. The Redneck Poker Card database might help you understand a little more - it is here https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/ it has actual hard information on cards.

There are quite a few cards I am good with using, and they are all PVC. I don't like one more than any other (except copag - they are too flimsy). There are a lot of cards I HATE (warping issues, not happy with the look or inks used, wear too fast for my liking, jam in my shuffle tech machine, etc.) and they are all acetate. If the cards look good, works good in the shuffling machine, and last a little while, I am happy. I have never found an acetate that meets those requirements. It isn't about liking PVC for me, it is about hating acetate.

 

[Phyffe]

So you're saying most people don't really like PVC or acetate cards but settle for one or the other because they view the alternative as a terrible choice? You're saying people don't actually like plastic cards at all? What's the preference... paper cards?

Ok, this is how I see it -

1. We all grew up playing with paper cards.

2. We're human, we like organic stuff, the feel of paper is gonna be our "default" standard, so to speak.

3. The problem is paper cards deform and degrade relatively fast, because, well ... paper.

4. Our ideal then, would be playing with paper cards and changing decks after every deal.

5. Since we're not Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne, this is a little impractical.

6. Therefore, as people who play cards often and for extended periods of time, our goal is to find a deck of cards that will a) feel like paper, b) will last longer than a deck of paper cards and c) will cost less in the long run.

7. Hence the issue of PVC vs Acetate.

8. Acetate feels more like paper, few people will dispute this, but it costs more (shoulda put that as a major con earlier).

9. PVC is cheaper but may not feel as good, conversely, few people will dispute this as well. In terms of durability, my personal take is that PVC will fade before it deforms.

10. The value judgment for me, at least is whether I will pay the extra money to obtain Acetates for the perceived benefits they give.

11. My personal and purely anecdotal opinion is that Acetates like the Modianos (have not had long-term experience with Desjgns due to the covid thing) are worth the money as they feel better, shuffle nicer and give me less paper cuts, and last as least as long, if not longer, than PVC.

 

[GianThaMan]

Ok, this is how I see it -

1. We all grew up playing with paper cards.

2. We're human, we like organic stuff, the feel of paper is gonna be our "default" standard, so to speak.

3. The problem is paper cards deform and degrade relatively fast, because, well ... paper.

4. Our ideal then, would be playing with paper cards and changing decks after every deal.

5. Since we're not Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne, this is a little impractical.

6. Therefore, as people who play cards often and for extended periods of time, our goal is to find a deck of cards that will a) feel like paper, b) will last longer than a deck of paper cards and c) will cost less in the long run.

7. Hence the issue of PVC vs Acetate.

8. Acetate feels more like paper, few people will dispute this, but it costs more (shoulda put that as a major con earlier).

9. PVC is cheaper but may not feel as good, conversely, few people will dispute this as well. In terms of durability, my personal take is that PVC will fade before it deforms.

10. The value judgment for me, at least is whether I will pay the extra money to obtain Acetates for the perceived benefits they give.

11. My personal and purely anecdotal opinion is that Acetates like the Modianos (have not had long-term experience with Desjgns due to the covid thing) are worth the money as they feel better, shuffle nicer and give me less paper cuts, and last as least as long, if not longer, than PVC.

I hate the feel of paper cards, they’re stiff and usually have a glossy plastic coating that makes them slippery. My favorite cards so far are my Fourniers, but I’m getting some cartamundi tobagos soon, and the Angel cards when the group buy finishes, so that may change. I love a soft, flexible, card because I do a lot of dealing in my games, so my hands hurt less after hours of dealing, but the only really soft cards I could get my hands on for a while were KEMs, which are unplayable because of the warping and how they can pretty quickly degrade, so I just use whatever card is the softest that I own besides those.

 

[TheDuke]

From Angel's website:

ANGEL POKER
"ANGEL POKER" is our premium poker card, utilizing a proprietary, newly developed Acetate material.

• Premium Acetate material, with best elasticity, memory, durability, consistency and difficulty to mark
• Superior cutting and printing accuracy
• Three color face design
• Compatible with all major shuffle machines in the market

CLUB POKER
"CLUB POKER" utilizes a proprietary, newly developed embossed PVC material.

• Original PVC material, with superior elasticity, memory, durability, consistency and difficulty to mark
• Superior cutting and printing accuracy
• Three color face design
• Compatible with all major shuffle machines in the market

 

[Dix]

So you're saying most people don't really like PVC or acetate cards but settle for one or the other because they view the alternative as a terrible choice? You're saying people don't actually like plastic cards at all? What's the preference... paper cards?

Perception (right or wrong) is usually everything.

Do "most" PVC decks feel like "plastic" more than acetate?

Well... yea... sort of. But that's largely because such a large majority of PVC decks are very cheaply made (because PVC is a cheaper material than acetate).

However, put a decent finish coat on a PVC card & you'd be hard pressed to feel any difference between them and any decent acetate deck. I dare anyone to tell me that, by finish feel alone, anything by Dal Negro or Copag feels any more like "plastic" than anything by Modiano or Kem.

Is acetate more "durable" than PVC?

Ummm... yes... & no. Depends on your definition of durable.

When it comes to print wear, that's going to depend completely on the production process & not so much a function of material. Because PVC is a cheaper material, it's the material of choice for those really inexpensive decks that don't bother with a finish coat, or use a very thin & cheap finish coating. Hence the perception that PVC is the problem. When actually, it's a manufacturing process issue.

Now, physical durability is a different shootin' match. PVC is a harder material than acetate. As such it will tend to be more brittle (cracking), and/or prone to creasing. Now, you can mitigate that by making them thicker. But then, the downside (or upside depending on your point of view) is that thick PVC cards tend to be rather stiff. Also, by making them thicker, you increase the material cost as well. So, your price-point starts to catch up to acetate.

In the end, it all comes down to personal preference & what your particular needs/wants are. Different horses for different courses & all that. While a NASCAR Modified is the fastest thing you could call a stock car around an oval track, it could be beaten by your average SCCA spec Miata around a road course if that course involves many right-hand turns.

Personally, I'm used to being a pushing 60 hand-shuffling dealer, dealing every hand, tourney final tables & all night long for a cash game. Hence, my preference for as soft a flexing good quality deck as I can get my hands on. Thus, the old-stock Desjgns & Kems are my usual suspect go-to decks. Gemaco are also nice, but getting them anymore is impossible. Copag work well enough, but, being PVC & thin enough for soft flexing makes them prone to occasional cracking.

By the way, if you take the cello wrapper off a PVC deck when you 1st get them, the smell will be largely gone by the time you get around to using them... just a tip.

 

[surfik]

Finish is important. Fournier uses 4 layers of plastic, Kem just one. But according to my research KEMs after applying ink are being coated with aerosol of microscopic granules.
Granted some people complain about KEMs warping (my personal opinion result of mistreatment) but have you ever seen KEMs loosing ink on any side? I did not

 

[Coyote]

I 've said this on another thread, but still saying this on this thread is more important for scientists to draw their conclusions.
My parents were given, as a gift, a set-up of Seville-back KEMs (beautiful) back in the mid '70s.
My parents played cards once a year, but even when I started playing poker in my teens, in the '80s, with my fellow students, it was not more than 8 hours monthly.
So, those decks had not seen lots of action, but rather lots of years before they litterally started to fall apart (in pieces) after 30 years of (minimal, quantitatively) service.
Were they PVC?
Do I have to hate or love someone?

 

[surfik]

I 've said this on another thread, but still saying this on this thread is more important for scientists to draw their conclusions.
My parents were given, as a gift, a set-up of Seville-back KEMs (beautiful) back in the mid '70s.
My parents played cards once a year, but even when I started playing poker in my teens, in the '80s, with my fellow students, it was not more than 8 hours monthly.
So, those decks had not seen lots of action, but rather lots of years before they litterally started to fall apart (in pieces) after 30 years of (minimal, quantitatively) service.
Were they PVC?
Do I have to hate or love someone?

Acetate.... Well after 30 years materiał may wear off. However I do have 2 deck set of 10 y. o. Kem Arrow. They seen some heavy action on regular basis. They gummy and I had to replace Q of Spades (player broke it purpously), apart from that they perfect.
I have seen destroyed Kem.. Warped and with cracked like ice, rough surface what is always sign that someone left them in the car in warm summer day. I also have a set of Galaxy Kem, they are so old that cellophane turn yellow and broke off, but cards are perfect.
They used to include instruction in cases with Kem cards... Maybe they should start doing that again

 

[Coyote]

Back in the day, the 55th card (after the two jokers) was full of information (including f*ckin US telephone numbers!) about how to order your one probably missing or marked card straight from the producing company, and about how to wipe those cards clean, for the next generations to enjoy
It's that kind of service I 'm missing.

 

[surfik]

Back in the day, the 55th card (after the two jokers) was full of information (including f*ckin US telephone numbers!) about how to order your one probably missing or marked card straight from the producing company, and about how to wipe those cards clean, for the next generations to enjoy
It's that kind of service I 'm missing.

Yeah... I have that and older decks with paper brochure folded 3 ways. Maybe I should scan it and put into "Resources" section.

 

[Phyffe]

Don't tell anyone, but I believe those Cartamundi's are the exact decks that I have a couple sets of coming as we speak. Based on the back design.

Do they say "made in Belgium" on 'em by any chance?

Dix, unfortunately(?) they say made in the good ole USA.

I bought these around 2016 or 2017 and opened one deck to give it a shuffle or two so I could tell how they feel, hence, essentially unplayed. They are showing some slight warping already, definitely acetates. The other deck that still in its plastic packaging is in better shape so I am initially concluding its the humidity over here getting to em

 

[Phyffe]

From Angel's website:

ANGEL POKER
"ANGEL POKER" is our premium poker card, utilizing a proprietary, newly developed Acetate material.

• Premium Acetate material, with best elasticity, memory, durability, consistency and difficulty to mark
• Superior cutting and printing accuracy
• Three color face design
• Compatible with all major shuffle machines in the market

CLUB POKER
"CLUB POKER" utilizes a proprietary, newly developed embossed PVC material.

• Original PVC material, with superior elasticity, memory, durability, consistency and difficulty to mark
• Superior cutting and printing accuracy
• Three color face design
• Compatible with all major shuffle machines in the market

For what it's worth I bought my green Club Poker deck in 2018, 2 years and 3 months ago. As good a texture as you can get from PVC. Linen finish is how the redneck database would describe it. IMHO only the Copag Uniques feel as good for PVCs, if you don't count the Copag EPOCs.

 

[surfik]

And again PVC/acetate.... Depends on brand but I heard lot of good things about them

 

[Dix]

Dix, unfortunately(?) they say made in the good ole USA.

In that case, stay tuned. Me & that other OCD sleuth @JMC9389 managed to sniff out what might be a source for decks similar to the casino-branded Cartamundi decks that @surfik has been selling. They just need to make it across the Atlantic for verification of that suspicion.

I bought these around 2016 or 2017 and opened one deck to give it a shuffle or two so I could tell how they feel, hence, essentially unplayed. They are showing some slight warping already, definitely acetates. The other deck that still in its plastic packaging is in better shape so I am initially concluding its the humidity over here getting to em

Could very well be... heat, humidity, or some combination of the two.

I don't have warping issues at all. I've got a set of Kems that are at least 10 years old & if you want to really be uber-picky you might say they have the slightest amount of a bow to them.... maybe.... just barely.

Now, the reason they've survived around here that long is because it's a bridge size deck that only got used for playing Omaha. & my suspicion is that storage environment is a big factor in the warpage issues some have. All my decks are stored in my office. Which, is temperature & humidity controlled. (it can get really dry up here in the winter, & really humid around this time of the year). Also, they're on a bookshelf out in the open, not inside a drawer or case that can trap heat & humidity due to lack of air circulation.

I also have some really old v1.0 Desjgn decks from 2006 that I've kept for nostalgia's sake (the old "4 in a row" pips that put people on tilt). They show no signs of warping either.

 

[surfik]

Well, KEMs survived trenches of II WW, maybe they survive storage conditions of modern times poker players

 

[surfik]

About feel.. For me I am looking for plastic cards that remind me in feel Piatnik Luxury line, made in 60/40 of paper and silk. That is my benchmark. And always looking for durability.

Note.. If Piatnik found a way to transfer face card pics into plastic they would be pritties cards ever...

 

[surfik]

@Dix ..if that Cartamundi are made in red I would be interested

 

[Dix]

They are... the usual boring red & blue.

 

[DEEJAY]

I'm torn between various Modiano, Dal Negro, Copag, KEM & Da Vinic decks. All of the top-tier plastics seem to have something more appealing than the next, whether it be the back design, finish, fonts, coloring, flexibility, thickness, face card designs, smell, etc. I just rotate through my decks, but it's hard for me to settle on a favorite. I have settled on three things; 1) high quality plastics, 2) poker size, & 3) jumbo index.

Just my opinion but kem's are way over priced and copags are just fine for your week-end games! your three things mentioned perfect as you get older that jumbo index is really nice to have!

 

[surfik]

Love KEMs but they price. Do not like Copag because they ugly and slippery. But possible to play with any of them.

 

[Dix]

Copag's are OK.... but just that... OK.

My issue with Copag is durability. No surprise really, given that they're PVC but made thin enough to have the flex-feel of more expensive acetate decks.

If you're looking for "acetate on a budget", the closest you'll come to that are Modiano's "Texas Poker" line or DaVinci.

 

[Phyffe]

Copag's are OK.... but just that... OK.

My issue with Copag is durability. No surprise really, given that they're PVC but made thin enough to have the flex-feel of more expensive acetate decks.

If you're looking for "acetate on a budget", the closest you'll come to that are Modiano's "Texas Poker" line or DaVinci.

Agree with the Da Vinci.

We used to play with something called Modiano Blackjack on Jumbo indexes way back when. I can't seem to find them now. I imagine the Texas Poker line is similar.

 

[Thomacetti]

I have 2007/2008/2009/2010 WSOP setup but these are all warped beyond use.
Maybe a collector wants to trade them against something I don't have (playable decks) ?

 

[redeagle]

My group started playing on paper Bee’s. Then went with plastic once it got to be two tables twice a week. depending on the host it was kem or gemaco as the easiest to find. i purchase a bulk lot of modiano plastic cards and uncut paper Wynn casino cards in multiple colors when one of their designs was being discontinued. It probably cost me under $3 a deck. Around then one of the guys sold his pool table and built a dedicated poker room so we began to play 90% there. i can probably play another decade of home games with the cards stored in the closet. my tastes have changed a bit and i like different designs but can’t justify buying more decks with what i still have. They do make great stocking stuffers though. i was never too picky about feel and as opposed to most still like the feel of new paper stock.

 

[Nuhockey]

Does anyone know if these Cartamundi Limited Edition Ace Cards below are 100% Plastic? They are Poker Jumbo. The site I got them from, playingcards.net, says they are 100% Plastic. However, nowhere on the boxes does it say Plastic or 100% on these. They feel like they are plastic, but I wanted to be sure. Some of the other pictures of ACE cards I have seen that are not the limited edition do say 100% Plastic on the box somewhere. I tried to Email Cartamundi USA about these the other week, but have not heard back. Thanks.

 

[surfik]

Does anyone know if these Cartamundi Limited Edition Ace Cards below are 100% Plastic? They are Poker Jumbo. The site I got them from, playingcards.net, says they are 100% Plastic. However, nowhere on the boxes does it say Plastic or 100% on these. They feel like they are plastic, but I wanted to be sure. Some of the other pictures of ACE cards I have seen that are not the limited edition do say 100% Plastic on the box somewhere. I tried to Email Cartamundi USA about these the other week, but have not heard back. Thanks.

View attachment 550307

Plastic 100%, used to be made in India, slippery as hell and not very durable