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Searching for a new deck setup for my games! Any suggestions?? (1 Viewer)

MinneMassive

MinneMassive

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I currently run Faded Spade cards in all my games and I truly like them the most for their strength, thickness, and nice card snap. They are definitely a little rougher on the hands for shuffling but they tend to last significantly longer than any other decks I have used. Generally, I can get 2 games out of a setup if I am lucky. Recently, however, I have run into an issue where a couple players, who apparently refuse to clip their fingernails, like to bend the cards in horizontally to peak and it tends to leave a nice indent right in the center of the card. This indent cannot be removed or pressed flat. FS is a little pricier than most cards at $35 a setup. However, faded spade's shipping is awful otherwise I would continue to pay the price. Charging $7.50 a setup for shipping but there is NO combined shipping at all. I've asked for combined shipping and they refuse to even respond to an email. I generally buy 6 to 10 setups every 2-4 weeks and they ship all of the cards in a single bubble mailer jammed full for between $45 and $75!! I cannot justify spending that much on shipping something in a $0.50 bubble mailer that probably costs $10 to ship. I have decided it's time to search for a different deck setup and just toss the cards after every game.

- I've tried Copags which are great for 1 game then you can pitch them afterwords but they tend to both fade, chip, and get nicks fairly quickly.

- I've tried Slow Play cards as they are very cheap for the money but these also fade very quickly and just get tossed after each game.

-I've used Kem cards.... but let's be honest... they're not worth $75 a setup. At least not in the environment that I am in.

-I've used angel cards but they feel soooo thin. They are nice though and they may be an option I go back to.

I did just purchase 3 setups of Broken Arrow's just now and will update once I receive them and run them through a night.

I was hoping to find a thick card that has a longer life in a rough environment and also look / feel good. I try to run a more "professional" environment with higher end amenities, professional chips / dealer / room / etc. All catered food, drinks, higher end booze, etc. So I want my cards to also reflect in that higher end motif. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and go crawling back on my hands and knees to Kem.

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Maybe there is a card out there that I don't know about yet!? The magical unicorn card??
 
Maybe my groups plays waaaaay fewer hands and less often than most but when we started we played like once a week, sometimes two, and we used 1 deck of copags for probably 6 months before an Ace got a corner chip and we had to move onto the second deck lol

All that said I've been happy in general with copags for the price and I'm also excited to try the Broken Arrow once they arrive as they get great praise especially for how cheap they are.
 
Here’s most of my current stash:

IMG_6288-edited.webp


I’ve tried to buy a setup or two of the main options, still haven’t got through all of them though.

So far, my preferred are:

Faded Spade, Fournier EPT and the new Desjgn (Fournier stock).

I haven’t played with any other setups that feel anywhere as thick as Faded.

If your players are damaging Faded then as host you should let everyone know it’s a $5 charge a game to cover the deck since they are damaging them (maybe one more warning and give them a chance). You need to be pretty negligent /go out your way to damage especially Faded.

If you don’t want to charge, the Broken Arrows are probably the best economical option.

GL!
 
A little education on proper card capping technique should help you. After one demonstration and showing of card damage, mention that infractions will cost money to offenders. Worked with my group and now decks las four games at minimum, I have a setup that’s been on my secondary table for five events now and is still undamaged.
 
I am a playing card junkie. I’m probably over 50+ setups with representation from almost every brand that makes cards. I’ve have my favorites but there is only one brand I absolutely despise…and that is Faded Spade. For me they are unplayably stiff. My players hated them too. I also hate their fake marketing. They sponsor TV poker and then act like the industry prefers them. I’ve never once played in a casino in AC, Vegas, PA, and MA that was using anything but Kem cards and the actual card room… For cash or tournaments.

I personally prefer softer feeling cards so Kem has always been my favorite in that regard and Angels are just as nice. But Kems are way overpriced now and Angels are hard to get.

Broken Arrows are good bang for the buck. The ink tends to face pretty quick but they are cheap and look and feel great. I’m about to order some more from the latest group buy.

My current recommendation to most, that are very easy to get, are DaVinci on Amazon. Fournier are also nice but usually have to be sourced on eBay from a foreign supplier and aren’t cheap

I recently found these which don’t have a plastic case but are nice and on the stiffer side that you say you like..

https://classicdecks.com/products/m...78b0d7-bbd3-42b7-9cd7-47348cffd3e8-1778120872

Gemaco super flex are also ironically on the stiffer side. But I never see those for sale anywhere anymore.

Desjgn are my favorite cards aesthetically by far! They are super classy. The new stock is Fournier too and they feel very nice.

The craziest part of your post is only getting a couple games per deck! Do you play with gorillas? 🤣. I play once a month for about 6-8 hours a session, andI have card that are 15-20 years old that are still good and not marked.

When a group of us hosted 30-40 person tournaments 15-20 years ago we started buying Copags for those (the only alternative to Kems at the time and half the price) and noticed crease marked cards like you described once in a while. Copags are fine, but not my favorite. With heavy use, they will fade and the ink tends to bleed onto the other cards when stored
 
By the way, I haven’t bought a set up of Kem cards in about seven years, but I was at a casino in Pennsylvania last week playing with them. They definitely feel different than I was used to. They felt closer to PVC than acetate and had a linen texture.

The fact they jacked their cards up to $75 indicated to me they really don’t want to sell to the public. But they also might have reformulated their stock.
 
I don't think brand of cards are the issue, I think the Cro-Magnons you have playing at your games are the issue. Try a set up of Broken Arrow Professional Series, and, for the cost you can switch them out more frequently until you break the careless Neanderthals out of their destructive behavior.
 
I agree. Broken Arrows hit the sweet spot for price / performance. They’re probably the best value going.

I love me some Design cards as they look & feel amazing but they cost more.
 
MinneMassive said:
I currently run Faded Spade cards in all my games and I truly like them the most for their strength, thickness, and nice card snap. They are definitely a little rougher on the hands for shuffling but they tend to last significantly longer than any other decks I have used. Generally, I can get 2 games out of a setup if I am lucky. Recently, however, I have run into an issue where a couple players, who apparently refuse to clip their fingernails, like to bend the cards in horizontally to peak and it tends to leave a nice indent right in the center of the card. This indent cannot be removed or pressed flat. FS is a little pricier than most cards at $35 a setup. However, faded spade's shipping is awful otherwise I would continue to pay the price. Charging $7.50 a setup for shipping but there is NO combined shipping at all. I've asked for combined shipping and they refuse to even respond to an email. I generally buy 6 to 10 setups every 2-4 weeks and they ship all of the cards in a single bubble mailer jammed full for between $45 and $75!! I cannot justify spending that much on shipping something in a $0.50 bubble mailer that probably costs $10 to ship. I have decided it's time to search for a different deck setup and just toss the cards after every game.

- I've tried Copags which are great for 1 game then you can pitch them afterwords but they tend to both fade, chip, and get nicks fairly quickly.

- I've tried Slow Play cards as they are very cheap for the money but these also fade very quickly and just get tossed after each game.

-I've used Kem cards.... but let's be honest... they're not worth $75 a setup. At least not in the environment that I am in.

-I've used angel cards but they feel soooo thin. They are nice though and they may be an option I go back to.

I did just purchase 3 setups of Broken Arrow's just now and will update once I receive them and run them through a night.

I was hoping to find a thick card that has a longer life in a rough environment and also look / feel good. I try to run a more "professional" environment with higher end amenities, professional chips / dealer / room / etc. All catered food, drinks, higher end booze, etc. So I want my cards to also reflect in that higher end motif. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and go crawling back on my hands and knees to Kem.

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated. Maybe there is a card out there that I don't know about yet!? The magical unicorn card??
Click to expand...

MinneMassive,

I identify a lot with what OldState posted (about being a card junkie in his 50s) as well as his disdain for Faded Spades (I mean, I'll use em because I have em but I won't go out of my way to reorder them).

I've tried all the cards you mentioned in my home games. I'd like to tell you the FSXs are better than the standard Faded Spades but I would overly optimistic. Just shuffling em will tell you they'll last but will give you premature arthritis.

I agree with how you characterize all of the decks you mentioned, and I will not recommend my favorites to you (Modiano Platinum) due to cost. I will say however that my Copag Elites have lasted more than 24 hours of use (2 deck set). There is some creasing as a result of exactly the type of behavior you described, but I think the more matte finish of the Elites seem to help make the creasing less visible. I had to hold the cards closer to my face to really see them. The design layout of the card back helps as well, I think. Given the price I think you may want to try them.

Also, do your players really care about card quality? Some of the other underground card rooms I play in use cheap chinese decks whose only redeeming values (aside from price) are that they are thick and have huge indexes.

OldState recommended DaVincis in his post and though they lasted longer than standard Copags, I found them relatively thin and had to replace them after the creases starts showing. Maybe try Modiano Texas Poker setups on Amazon? They're $17.95-$23 depending on the color. They're not acetates of course but they have the same design as the Platinums.

As to Broken Arrow, the originals had the same value proposition as some of the generic China PVC decks. Good durability and visibility at an affordable price. A no-brainer unless you deal regularly and find them too stiff. I am looking forward to the product-improved Broken Arrow Pros.
 
The BA Pro are nothing like the original BA cards. I have approximately 200 decks of cards, Trefl, Modiano Platinum, Fournier, Kem, Arista, Kem, Guild, Gemaco, Davinci, Cartemundi (Belgium and USA) Copag (only for comparison), Marion Pro (great value card), Desjgn, Triton, KEM, the cards from Poker Supply (passable, but I don't reach for them ever, unless it's agiveaway), and the BA Pro are the ones used most often at the games I regularly play. You can't go wrong for the price of a setup.

I don't have any FSX, but, I do have the first two versions, and they NEVER get used. I hate them.
 
KHarp1 hit the nail on the head. I just bought a double deck setup of broken arrow professional poker with jumbo index because they aren't available anymore and in my mind they're fantastic cards.
 
GeeOhVee said:
KHarp1 hit the nail on the head. I just bought a double deck setup of broken arrow professional poker with jumbo index because they aren't available anymore and in my mind they're fantastic cards.
Click to expand...
Yikes. I placed my order with Justin last week. I hope he was able to set aside Jumbos for me.

The old guys I play with really appreciate and I'm beginning to. LOL
 
Design / Broken Arrow west of the Pond.
Fournier / Dal Negro / Modiano east of the Pond.
Solved. :)
 
The new Desjgn by Fournier are very, very nice!
Bridge size is just perfect proportions with BJ index, imo.
I don‘t know why but they get even better after some shuffling.
Great cards!
 
Faded Spade,

I don’t know what to say or how to describe it

Your mileage may vary.

It’s been 13 months now using the exact same set up, faded spade FSX

That’s about 468 hours of playtime (that is six games a month a minimum of six hours per session) using the same two deck set up, not one problem with any individual card and the decks have begun to have a very slight bow to them now, nothing like a Kem deck or anything else, this endurance test is amazing.

My players like the font, they like the thickness they like the stiffness. This just really goes to show you the diversity of what people prefer in a playing card.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...aded-spade-cards-do-this.139550/#post-2836762

For my experience if you want thinner and cheaper, easy availability, COPAG is a good fit, however, the font will be larger than the faded spade.

Let us know what you end up trying and how it works out.
 
For my game-a-week league I use decks until a card is marked. I don’t care about faded, and don’t care if my players like them or not either. I buy them so I’m the only one who has to like them.

I have some BAs on order and can’t wait to get them. I have had a great experience with Chips and Games cards but they don’t make enough colors, sizes and designs so I’m using copags and a few other “no name” brands also. The copag elites are impressing me after numerous games.

Related I too had a player who marked the cards with his finger while peeking. He changed his technique with a bit of coaching that he balked about but agreed to because he didn’t want to get booted. I’m the only open league in possibly all of western NY!

HK
 
I am surprised at how many folks here use one setup of plastic cards for months on end. While plastic cards are certainly more durable than paper, and I would never go back to paper, I find that even the most premium plastic decks (i.e., Modiano Platinums) start to show some wear and tear after about 4-5 sessions (and maybe its just due to the dirty hands that touch and shuffle the cards, but what host can really control that?). At $9-10/setup (or even $15-$20/setup), I have no problem putting fresh decks in the game after 4 sessions. Maybe it's different for those who play $20-40 tournaments or $0.50/$1 no limit (we play $10-$20 limit), but the cost of a new setup (one big blind in my game) is well worth the feel of fresh decks every 4 games. I typically buy a dozen setups at once (and usually get a discount on that) and have sometimes had everyone chip in (or rake) for the cost of the cards.
 
Plastic cards can be wiped clean by those with the required patience.
Truth is, if you don’t clean them, plastic-coated cards, a lot cheaper, are a better deal for frequent play.
 
Evan though my setups(broken arrow) are $8 each I use them until they are marked someway, or faded. Right now my setups have seen 3 6hour sessions and are holding up fantastically. But, at that price if I was playing $10-$20 cash limit , I’d probably change every session. They would stil be Broken Arrows though. Really top notch offering, and the deals Justin has are outstanding value.
 
Andrew Marks said:
I am surprised at how many folks here use one setup of plastic cards for months on end. While plastic cards are certainly more durable than paper, and I would never go back to paper, I find that even the most premium plastic decks (i.e., Modiano Platinums) start to show some wear and tear after about 4-5 sessions (and maybe its just due to the dirty hands that touch and shuffle the cards, but what host can really control that?). At $9-10/setup (or even $15-$20/setup), I have no problem putting fresh decks in the game after 4 sessions. Maybe it's different for those who play $20-40 tournaments or $0.50/$1 no limit (we play $10-$20 limit), but the cost of a new setup (one big blind in my game) is well worth the feel of fresh decks every 4 games. I typically buy a dozen setups at once (and usually get a discount on that) and have sometimes had everyone chip in (or rake) for the cost of the cards.
Click to expand...
I have a lot of cards and cycle them in and out every game. In the past 25 years of using plastic cards it has been rare for me to see them get that bad …especially after 4-5 sessions.

20 years ago we used to host large tournaments 7-8 times a year for about 6 years. The Copags we used then would start to fade and the ink bled. That said I still have my second deck of Kems for 2003. They are retired but still in good shape. They must have well over 100 hours on them.

First thing is to not serve or allow greasy food at the game. I only have dry snacks like pretzels. Chips and salsa are a messy as I get. I would imagine that’s the main culprit.

Poker chips are different because they get more continuous hours of play . I actually found this forum searching for ways to clean ASM chips and the best ceramics to buy. My clay ASMs got tacky with heavy use. While I am bringing them out this weekend, I almost never play with them anymore and wash my ceramics once or twice a year.
 
Last edited:
I received the Broken Arrow playing cards and put them into the game Tuesday and here's what I can say about the cards from my experience. The cards are very sharp compared to other cards and can be be almost hard to deal initially when pealing them off the stub to pitch to each player. This gets easier over time. I had 2 players in particular begin complaining immediately about the "small faces" on the cards. Sounds like a stupid thing to bring up, but once you see it, it's hard to unsee. The colors are very bright for backs of cards and definitely stand out on the table. This is nice because it makes it easy to tell if someone has cards in front of them. The only real negatives about the backs is maybe the color is "too bright" and "overly" stand out on the table. After several hours of play the backs have held up fairly nicely and have not lost a noticeable amount of ink and still look pack fresh. The numbers and pips on the cards have a unique look to them. This was also a complaint by some of the players as the numbers were not "normal" print numbers and almost look like clubwptgold font that is italicized sort of. Hard to explain...lol! The face cards just look off or odd with tiny faces on big bodies. The thickness of the cards I would say is a strong medium to a light-medium. They are definitely flimsy like Angels but do have a rigidness to them that helps them keep up to the occasional hard pitches / nail digs fairly well. The cards do seem to pick up peoples oil on their skin which makes the "slide" dissipate after several hours (fairly common with most cards). Shuffling these cards is where this setup definitely stands out. They shuffle amazing! By far one of my favorite decks to shuffle out of any deck. Smooth, easy to clean up cards on the table, and have a clean sound when shuffling. They pitch great and are easy to flick across the table. Several of my players asked me to go back to the Faded Spade cards after only a single lap. After going back to the Faded Spades you can just tell they are very different cards. Faded spade just have that "strong" feel to them. I eventually brought them back on the table to give them a full test when those players left the game.

If i had to give these cards a ranking out of 10... I would probably give them a strong 7 to a low 8. I personally love them as a dealer....my players however...did not care for them as much. Yes, I do have players with higher needs...but I also run higher limit games and not your standard .50 - 1 home game. The players run the game otherwise they go to other games that will offer them what they want.

Kind of bites, but, it looks like I will be going back on my hands and knees to faded spade. I hate the shipping rates and the lack of communication...but...if it's what the players want...I don't really have a choice! I think I may do a numbered ranking system of cards out of 100 in the near future. Or maybe just a poll to see what everyone's favorite cards are? Who knows!
 
MinneMassive said:
Faded spade just have that "strong" feel to them.
Click to expand...
That’s certainly one way to describe them 😂

Having accumulated virtually every card made, I can say without hesitation that Faded Spade cards are the stiffest cards by a LARGE margin. There is nothing even close to them out there. If I had to list the top 10 stiffest cards in order, Faded Space would take the top 7 spots 😂

I say this because I think when you have become accustomed to such an extreme it shades your perception. There are SO many decent cards out there and I hate to see you give up so quickly. You also seem to have an unusually destructive group of players that also don’t seem to wash their hands 😉

I also just personally hate to see anyone settle on Faded Spade. Having experienced every card out there I just personally can’t wrap my head around how anyone not only likes them…but doesn’t absolutely despise them 😂

It’s all perspective I guess. The first cards I played with were paper. The first nice cards I had were Kems. They felt very close to paper…but almost luxurious ….like a premium product. To me everything else feels slight worse than Kems (Though Angels may be my absolute favorite as far as feel) ……every other card is a compromise for me…durably or price in exchange for perfect feel. I just can’t compromise on the feel with Faded Spade
 
Last edited:
SwissChip said:
The new Desjgn by Fournier are very, very nice!
Bridge size is just perfect proportions with BJ index, imo.
I don‘t know why but they get even better after some shuffling.
Great cards!
Click to expand...
where are you all getting the Desjgn cards at? i cannot seem to find them
 
MinneMassive said:
I received the Broken Arrow playing cards and put them into the game Tuesday and here's what I can say about the cards from my experience. The cards are very sharp compared to other cards and can be be almost hard to deal initially when pealing them off the stub to pitch to each player. This gets easier over time. I had 2 players in particular begin complaining immediately about the "small faces" on the cards. Sounds like a stupid thing to bring up, but once you see it, it's hard to unsee. The colors are very bright for backs of cards and definitely stand out on the table. This is nice because it makes it easy to tell if someone has cards in front of them. The only real negatives about the backs is maybe the color is "too bright" and "overly" stand out on the table. After several hours of play the backs have held up fairly nicely and have not lost a noticeable amount of ink and still look pack fresh. The numbers and pips on the cards have a unique look to them. This was also a complaint by some of the players as the numbers were not "normal" print numbers and almost look like clubwptgold font that is italicized sort of. Hard to explain...lol! The face cards just look off or odd with tiny faces on big bodies.

If i had to give these cards a ranking out of 10... I would probably give them a strong 7 to a low 8. I personally love them as a dealer....my players however...did not care for them as much. Yes, I do have players with higher needs...but I also run higher limit games and not your standard .50 - 1 home game. The players run the game otherwise they go to other games that will offer them what they want.

Kind of bites, but, it looks like I will be going back on my hands and knees to faded spade. I hate the shipping rates and the lack of communication...but...if it's what the players want...I don't really have a choice! I think I may do a numbered ranking system of cards out of 100 in the near future. Or maybe just a poll to see what everyone's favorite cards are? Who knows!
Click to expand...
When talking about the looks, particularly the “small faces” there is newer face art that looks pretty standard to me whereas I can see what you mean about the old ones looking like they are being consumed by their bodies lol

Here’s the new face art:
IMG_0153.webp


Your overall review makes me more excited to get them as my players have never touched a more premium card than copags so they have nothing to compare too! lol
 

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