An interesting NLHE hand in a $200/$400/$400 ante game (10 Viewers)

[Windwalker]

Haven't posted on here for a bit, but have been thinking about this hand in this home game I played last week.

$200/$400 with a $400 BB ante.
Hero is in the CO, villain in UTG.
We're 6 hours in, villain SS is $240K, up $140K.
Hero SS is $270K, up $70K.
Villain is TIGHT! Clearly not comfortable with the stakes, has shown down almost only premium hands, but has sunrun a bit recently, having callers with 2nd best hands. (2 set over sets, one K high flush over a Q high flush). Relatively predictable.
Hero's image is semi TAG, with some random showdown hands thrown in like 57s, and one Kobe which won a $60k pot.

Villain in UTG raises to $3K.
Everyone up to Hero folds.

Hero in CO looks down at .

Button is TAG, down some.
SB and BB are both decent players, semi TAGs. They've been drinking a bit, card dead for a couple hours.

Hero?

 

[MegaTon44]

Nitty villain raising UTG, I could find a fold here pretty easily (admittedly, I'm tight and open very strong UTG)

 

[JMC9389]

Fold pre.

 

[DrStrange]

Lets pay $3k and see a flop. Hero's "good flop" range is very different from villain's UTG range. The implied odds are quite temping vs an ABC style player who seems out of his depth.

Not going to be thrilled to see a 3-bet though. Hero wants the SPR to be sky high and see a cheap flop. Hoping to skin UTG on a lucky hand.

 

[JMC9389]

Lets pay $3k and see a flop. Hero's "good flop" range is very different from villain's UTG range. The implied odds are quite temping vs an ABC style player who seems out of his depth.

Not going to be thrilled to see a 3-bet though. Hero wants the SPR to be sky high and see a cheap flop. Hoping to skin UTG on a lucky hand.

I defer to you in most of these strategy threads doc, but wouldn't you want to three bet this to try to get heads up with UTG?

A flat call invites a three bet squeeze from the button or one of the blinds, and then you're going in multiways in position but with meager holdings.

Fold>3 bet>call for me here.

 

[detroitdad]

Haven't posted on here for a bit, but have been thinking about this hand in this home game I played last week.

$200/$400 with a $400 BB ante.
Hero is in the CO, villain in UTG.
We're 6 hours in, villain SS is $240K, up $140K.
Hero SS is $270K, up $70K.
Villain is TIGHT! Clearly not comfortable with the stakes, has shown down almost only premium hands, but has sunrun a bit recently, having callers with 2nd best hands. (2 set over sets, one K high flush over a Q high flush). Relatively predictable.
Hero's image is semi TAG, with some random showdown hands thrown in like 57s, and one Kobe which won a $60k pot.

Villain in UTG raises to $3K.
Everyone up to Hero folds.

Hero in CO looks down at .

HJ is a LAG, down a lot.
Button is TAG, down some.
SB and BB are both decent players, semi TAGs. They've been drinking a bit, card dead for a couple hours.

Hero?

Call. Not raising vs the nit

 

[LeLe]

Fold, we are deep enough to try to call the $3k if we are at a later position but at CO with 34s, it’s a fold for me

I not raising 34s vs a UTG tight raise here

 

[ChipEnvy]

Fold.

Is playing 34ss vs Nit UTG raise TAG these days?

 

[Frogzilla]

Is the 8x open normal? I’d probably just fold here even though it feels like a very playable hand deep.

Regular open a three bet or flat seems great this deep, even vs UTG, but supposed to tighten upas the open sizing gets bigger and at 8x even something as gorgeous as 43cc finds the muck

 

[Eriks]

You nits, how many $200/400 hands are you getting to see from behind the scenes? We need to call and get to see where this is going.

 

[Kain8]

A hand that can make a wheel is great for occasionally calling with when you have a villain with a tight range. I wouldn't make it a habit at all, but deceptive hands are always a necessary evil at some point in a session.

 

[jr8719]

Haven't posted on here for a bit, but have been thinking about this hand in this home game I played last week.

$200/$400 with a $400 BB ante.
Hero is in the CO, villain in UTG.
We're 6 hours in, villain SS is $240K, up $140K.
Hero SS is $270K, up $70K.
Villain is TIGHT! Clearly not comfortable with the stakes, has shown down almost only premium hands, but has sunrun a bit recently, having callers with 2nd best hands. (2 set over sets, one K high flush over a Q high flush). Relatively predictable.
Hero's image is semi TAG, with some random showdown hands thrown in like 57s, and one Kobe which won a $60k pot.

Villain in UTG raises to $3K.
Everyone up to Hero folds.

Hero in CO looks down at .

HJ is a LAG, down a lot.
Button is TAG, down some.
SB and BB are both decent players, semi TAGs. They've been drinking a bit, card dead for a couple hours.

Hero?

Call. This is exactly the kind of hand you want to be seeing a flop with against a right player, IMO.

 

[Windwalker]

Continuing...

$200/$400 with a $400 BB ante.
Hero is in the CO, villain in UTG.
We're 6 hours in, villain SS is $240K, up $140K.
Hero SS is $270K, up $70K.
Villain is TIGHT! Clearly not comfortable with the stakes, has shown down almost only premium hands, but has sunrun a bit recently, having callers with 2nd best hands. (2 set over sets, one K high flush over a Q high flush). Relatively predictable.
Hero's image is semi TAG, with some random showdown hands thrown in like 57s, and one Kobe which won a $60k pot.

Villain in UTG raises to $3K.
Everyone up to Hero folds.

Hero in CO looks down at .

Button is TAG, down some.
SB and BB are both decent players, semi TAGs. They've been drinking a bit, card dead for a couple hours.

Hero debates b/w a call and a raise. The raise is probably more appropriate to isolate Villain, especially given BB has the $400 ante in the pot. But, given how tight Villain is, and its a UTG raise, Hero decides to call.

Button folds.
SB folds.
BB folds.

Pot now is $7000.

Flop is



Villain bets out $5000.

Hero?

 

[JMC9389]

Call. The bet sizing is a bit peculiar. Playing like an overpair protecting against flush draws.

 

[detroitdad]

Call, and chase that flush!

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Fold pre, but make it 20k as played.

 

[Hot Nuts]

Call even though you'll probably miss the flush and will be facing another strong bet. If you raise here, you might get re-raised on this flop.

 

[Kain8]

Oh boy, I'm starting to smell some reverse implied odds here. You're not making any more money if the flush does come in. Either your opponent shuts down completely when a third club rolls off (unless he has an overpair with a club) or they have you dead to rights with a better flush themselves. I'm not giving much credit or consideration of this villain having the propensity to bluff as Hero described them as being scared money in the game.

All of the options here have pitfalls. Folding a pair (albeit bottom pair) plus a flush draw is bizarre and non-sensical.

Raising does allow you to take initiative and perhaps get a free river if checked to on the turn. If you get 3-bet on the flop, that's another whole can of worms to consider. You're either up against exactly JJ or / at that point given the villain. Pretty easy to fold up shop then.

Calling allows the pot to develop at a reasonable pace where Hero's equity is in flux. If a third club lands on the turn and the villain keeps firing, then someone is getting a whole lot of pain one way or the other.

Raise (with intention of folding if 3 bet) to $17,000 > Call > Fold.

 

[MrCatPants]

Obligatory fold pre. Even flops like this that we like and is about as good as we could hope for, we still dont like all that much.

If UTG is this tight, we are probably behind more of his range than we are ahead post flop, but have enough equity that we can't let this go either. He's likely not folding to a raise given that so all a raise would accomplish is to bloat the pot while we are probably behind. Call, and I think we'd rather see a 3 or a 4 on the turn than the club. Will allow us to get more money in and in a much stronger position.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Obligatory fold pre. Even flops like this that we like and is about as good as we could hope for, we still dont like all that much.

If UTG is this tight, we are probably behind more of his range than we are ahead post flop, but have enough equity that we can't let this go either. He's likely not folding to a raise given that so all a raise would accomplish is to bloat the pot while we are probably behind. Call, and I think we'd rather see a 3 or a 4 on the turn than the club. Will allow us to get more money in and in a much stronger position.

he may not fold to a single raise, but if he’s as tight as suggested he might fold to a double or triple barrel, even if we don’t improve. And if villain 3 bets the flop, he could very well fold to a 4 bet jam. we’re basically Flipping with overpairs, and the only set we have to really worry about villain having is jacks.

 

[Rakrul]

How would hero play 44/77 here? It certainly should be in hero's range and something villain has to account for.

 

[Windwalker]

Continuing...

$200/$400 with a $400 BB ante.
Hero is in the CO, villain in UTG.
We're 6 hours in, villain SS is $240K, up $140K.
Hero SS is $270K, up $70K.
Villain is TIGHT! Clearly not comfortable with the stakes, has shown down almost only premium hands, but has sunrun a bit recently, having callers with 2nd best hands. (2 set over sets, one K high flush over a Q high flush). Relatively predictable.
Hero's image is semi TAG, with some random showdown hands thrown in like 57s, and one Kobe which won a $60k pot.

Villain in UTG raises to $3K.
Everyone up to Hero folds.

Hero in CO looks down at .

Button is TAG, down some.
SB and BB are both decent players, semi TAGs. They've been drinking a bit, card dead for a couple hours.

Hero debates b/w a call and a raise. The raise is probably more appropriate to isolate Villain, especially given BB has the $400 ante in the pot. But, given how tight Villain is, and its a UTG raise, Hero decides to call.

Button folds.
SB folds.
BB folds.

Pot now is $7000.

Flop is



Villain bets out $5000.

Hero has an option to raise here, given Villain’s typical range UTG. That said, or are also within his range, and given his recent sunrunning, Hero decides to just call and catch a cheap turn.

Hero calls. Pot is now $17000.

Turn is .

Villain tanks for a while, almost 3 minutes. He then bets $4200.

Hero?

 

[detroitdad]

We hit what we wanted. Time to take control and find out if he has s bigger flush.

I'm thinking of raising between 25 and 30k

 

[JMC9389]

Either way ahead or way behind. Bet size is again peculiar. Why go from a 70% pot size bet to 25%.

Something is fishy here. Pocket pairs and overpairs would check here a lot.

I would min raise here and see what villain does. How sticky is this particular villain? Would they call a raise on this turn with just an overpair?

 

[NoNamePokerGuy]

I'm not sure how you get here if you don't think your flush will be good. I'm still the the obligatory fold preflop. If you get here, then I don't see how you don't continue.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Either way ahead or way behind. Bet size is again peculiar. Why go from a 70% pot size bet to 25%.

Something is fishy here. Pocket pairs and overpairs would check here a lot.

I would min raise here and see what villain does. How sticky is this particular villain? Would they call a raise on this turn with just an overpair?

He did downbet quite a bit (relative to the pot size). This hand isn't going to pot itself, make it 30k

 

[FDLmold]

We had range advantage on that flop, and TIGHT guy still bet out. I don't think he's doing this without a flush draw or trip jacks. It's possible he's getting out of line with AA/KK/QQ with one club. I'm not interested in bloating this pot against that range, so I call the turn.

 

[FDLmold]

Oh, and COME ON , ONE TIME!

 

[MrCatPants]

What takes this line? AX with two clubs, Ax with one club, JJ, AA, KK, QQ (not necessarily with a club but overweighting the clubs).

More hands we shouldn't give a free card to compared to hands that have us crushed. Raise to 22.

 

[Goldfish]

I am pretty sure that what I think you should do is wrong, but following to see how it turns out!