Tourney All in..misdeal... how do you rule? (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

Heard about this situation, just curious how would people rule?

Multi table tourney. Table 9 handed very early on.

Player 1 opens
Player 2 raises
Player 3 reraises All In.

As player 3 announces All In (preflop). it's discovered that a 10th hand was dealt. Some very brief discussion to confirm an extra hand was dealt, and once confirmed, player 3 (and a couple uninvolved players) say "misdeal".

Is this a misdeal (yes/no) and how do you handle it?

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Off the top of my head I want to keep the action on the table alive. Depending where the 10th hand was I'd use those cards as the burn cards for the flop and turn. As nothing was exposed it shouldn't matter but the total amount of cards in the deck stays the same.

 

[Psypher1000]

Is this a misdeal (yes/no) and how do you handle it?

Yes, but not one that should kill the current action/hand.

how do you handle it?

As long as nobody has looked at the extra dealt hand it should be folded/the dealer should muck it and play resumes as normal.

 

[FDLmold]

The hand should continue, especially since no cards were exposed.

 

[DJ Mack]

Yes this is a misdeal. It's too late to do anything about it other than mucking the extra hand. I don't favor using them as burn cards because the reason a card is burned is because players have a long time to look at the back of the card to be dealt next. If it's a marked deck or there's some known imperfection burning a card makes that knowledge less useful. Not burning a card defeats the entire reason cards are burned in the first place.

 

[FDLmold]

Burning a card makes sense to me now.

 

[BGinGA]

Since action of two (or more) players has occurred, the hand plays out to completion. The extra cards go in the muck. No misdeal.

Had it been discovered prior to Player 2 completing his action, it would be ruled a misdeal, all cards mucked, and re-dealt.

Note that all of the variables below are totally irrelevant to the correct ruling:

• Multi table tourney
• Table 9 handed
• very early on.
• player 3 (and a couple uninvolved players) say "misdeal"

As is the actual action that was performed by Players 1, 2, and 3. They could have all folded, and the ruling remains the same. Once two players have acted, the hand plays out.

 

[BGinGA]

As long as nobody has looked at the extra dealt hand it should be folded/the dealer should muck it and play resumes as normal.

Even if some moron who yelled "misdeal!" flipped over the two extra cards, it would not cause a misdeal. They would be considered exposed cards, shown to the table, mucked, and play resumes with action on Player 4.

 

[bergs]

Foxwoods and Mohegan would've completed action because action had started and the 10th hand simply gets mucked.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Muck hand, keep playing.

 

[Trihonda]

I believe the hand was played out. The extra Hand was shuffled back into the deck tho. From what I was told.

 

[Ghoti]

Personally I'd rule that the hand be played out. Too much action already.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

This can never be a misdeal ever, once there's been action, especially this much action, you can't kill the hand.

 

[Trihonda]

The extra Hand was shuffled back into the deck tho. From what I was told.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[BGinGA]

The extra cards are a dead hand, and should be mucked.

 

[DJ Mack]

Any thoughts on this?

(n) :thumbsdown: - never reshuffle during a hand. Mathematically while it's not proper procedure I don't think any player gained or lost beyond what chance brought.

 

[moose]

This can never be a misdeal ever, once there's been action, especially this much action, you can't kill the hand.

Amount of action is irrelevant. Even if the first two players had folded, the hand must be played out from this point.

 

[DJ Mack]

Amount of action is irrelevant. Even if the first two players had folded, the hand must be played out from this point.

But not if only one (or none) had acted. The amount of action (and folding is an action) can be relevant.

 

[BGinGA]

(n) :thumbsdown: - never reshuffle during a hand. Mathematically while it's not proper procedure I don't think any player gained or lost beyond what chance brought.

Never say never.... there are a few specific instances (typically involving prematurely dealt board cards) where reshuffling cards back into the deck stub is correct procedure.

 

[GIANTDustySquid]

Never say never.... there are a few specific instances (typically involving prematurely dealt board cards) where reshuffling cards back into the deck stub is correct procedure.

since you mentioned this, i have a question about this scenario.

lets say we are on the flop and someone has bet, the action is on another player who hasn't yet acted, and the dealer prematurely deals 4th street.
Whats the procedure for this mistake?

 

[T_Chan]

I believe the hand was played out. The extra Hand was shuffled back into the deck tho. From what I was told.

Unless the cards were exposed, there shouldn't be any reason to shuffle them back into the deck, they should have just been mucked.

since you mentioned this, i have a question about this scenario.

lets say we are on the flop and someone has bet, the action is on another player who hasn't yet acted, and the dealer prematurely deals 4th street.
Whats the procedure for this mistake?

Yes in that instance, you would take the exposed prematurely dealt card and shuffle it back into the deck. Allow the last player to take their action then deal the replacement turn card. The reasoning is so that the card still has a chance to be the turn. If it were just mucked, then it could affect someone's decision.

 

[BGinGA]

on the flop and someone has bet, the action is on another player who hasn't yet acted, and the dealer prematurely deals 4th street.
Whats the procedure for this mistake?

Yes in that instance, you would take the exposed prematurely dealt card and shuffle it back into the deck. Allow the last player to take their action then deal the replacement turn card. The reasoning is so that the card still has a chance to be the turn. If it were just mucked, then it could affect someone's decision.

If the dealer did not burn before dealing the premature turn card, the the exposed card is actually just really the burn card, and should be publicly announced as such and placed back on top of the deck stub.

If the dealer did indeed burn a card and deal the premature turn card, then there is actually a better way to handle this scenario -- which results in the least amount of variance from the originally intended board cards:

1. the prematurely dealt burn card remains where it is
2. the prematurely dealt turn card is set aside
3. flop betting continues as normal

If the hand ends on the flop, then on to the next hand. If the hand is still live, then follow this procedure:

1. the dealer burns and deals the (intended) river card in place of the prematurely dealt turn card.
2. turn betting ensues.
3. if the hand is still live after the turn betting, then the prematurely dealt turn card is shuffled back into the deck stub, cut, and a (new) river card is immediately dealt -- with no burn card.

This process ensures that at least 4 of the 5 board cards are as orginally intended, the three burn cards are exactly those that would have been dealt otherwise, and the 5th board card still has the greatest potential to be redealt.

And no reshuffling is needed at all unless the hand actually reaches the river.

 

[BGinGA]

Some rules have the dealer first burn and deal the river card face-down, followed by shuffling the premature turn card into the deck and then redealing the tun card (with no burn). If the hand goes to the river, the dealer then turns over the river card dealt earlier.

However, I think this variation can result in more errors and improperly exposed cards, and it also takes longer if the hand ends on the flop or turn (as does Tony's process).

 

[Poker Zombie]

I've actually gotten a number of my players to learn to tap the table or to ask "Pot's good" before the burn and turn. This does wonders for preventing early turn cards when you have a player that likes to completely cover their cards with their hands.