AKs in middle position (1 Viewer)

[DrStrange]

Playing $1/$1 live, seven handed. We are at the two-thirds mark for the session. Everyone is in a good mood, though Crazy Jr joined the table late and promptly sent a third of the table home early. @David O is at the table, perhaps he will have some different perspectives? The Trops are in play!

Cast of characters:

SB is playing $150 on a $100 buy-in. SB is headed off on a casino junket trip first this Sunday morning and his mind really isn't on the game. Semi tight - semi passive. If he starts paying attention to a hand rather than talk about his trip - be careful.

BB is playing break even poker with $200. Tight/passive except his limping range is somewhat wider. Will limp/fold. Highly predictable when raising preflop. AA/KK maybe QQ and that is it. Post flop is similar though he might bluff or value bet medium hands occasionally.

UTG is the Ultimate Calling Station playing $225. UCS has shown a new wrinkle tonight - he is trying to bluff Crazy Jr with some frequency. That plan isn't for the faint of heart but it is entertaining to watch.

MP1 is David O playing $200, still on his first buy-in. David is playing a semi-tight range, but more passively than in the prior game I played with him. I can't tell if that is an attempt to trap Crazy Jr making a loose preflop raise. If so, I approve. Lots of money can be made that way.

Hero sits in MP2 (or HJ) playing $150 on a $100 buy in. Hero has had a couple of unfortunate hands that have kept the night from being a grand success. Still, being 50bb ahead isn't a terrible result. Hero's table image is tight but even so people still call. Hero hasn't taken down one pot preflop by making a raise.

Crazy Jr is in the CO playing $300. So far tonight has been good for Crazy Jr. He is picking up a nice share of premium hands and also hitting his speculative hands. He came very late to the game and seems like he is making up for lost time. His style is classic LAGtard.

Button is a sad sack player lost between tight prudence and LAGtard aggression. Playing $100, but is deeply behind. His game is characterized by a lack of follow through and impatience which is not a good combination. Mostly it is just a matter of time before someone gets all of his chips. He has already dodged one foolhardy all-in where the Poker Gods saved him but that isn't going to happen every time.

The Hand:

UTG straddles for $6. David O folds. Action on Hero. Hero holds . He isn't folding. Should Hero raise (how much?), limp planning to back raise or limp planning to flat any raise and be sneaky? Crazy Jr is the best hope to raise if Hero doesn't but he isn't a sure thing. Let's call it 40% for Crazy Jr to raise and 10% for one of the other players to raise.

DrStrange

 

[David O]

I am curious to see how this hand will be played by other members of the community. I remember this hand because we actually had a brief discussion at the end of the night while Crazy junior was there explaining how and why he plays the way he does. You have to love Crazy Junior to a point. He has a bunch of gambol is his heart and probably makes sacrifices to the River Gods! JK but he does add a different dimension to the game.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Eek, a $6 straddle? That makes this hand a little awkward to play, given stack sizes and the fact that preflop raises aren't taking down pots tonight. Any reasonable raise with action will lead to a big SPR and probable pot commitment.

Given that, let's make our flop decision easy with a nice, fat raise to $36 or so. If action stays passive with one or two callers, plan to shove most flops. Not much getting us off this hand except maybe a shove from BB.

 

[RainmanTrail]

If there weren't a $6 straddle already in, I'd usually try to mix it up between playing it passively pre flop and raising it. However, since the straddle is in, I'd just make it $15+ and try to play a HU pot. AK plays much better HU. It's a pretty tough hand to play multi-way in a large pot.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Eek, a $6 straddle? That makes this hand a little awkward to play, given stack sizes and the fact that preflop raises aren't taking down pots tonight. Any reasonable raise with action will lead to a big SPR and probable pot commitment.

Given that, let's make our flop decision easy with a nice, fat raise to $36 or so. If action stays passive with one or two callers, plan to shove most flops. Not much getting us off this hand except maybe a shove from BB.

$36? ... seat open sir

 

[Jimulacrum]

$36? ... seat open sir

Do you think your $15 raise is going to get it heads-up in this situation? Based on DrStrange's description, I'm feeling like it won't, in which case $15 leaves us with an awkward SPR in a multi-way pot.

A bigger raise makes it more likely that we'll get only one caller, and the pot will be a better size for us to make an overbet shove and take it down. It's not like $36 is even that disproportionate anyway; a pot-sized raise would be $20 already. I suppose $30 wouldn't be too bad either, but I'm building a pot with the intention of muscling it away from the caller on the flop, so I decided to go bigger. And if we get called on the flop, we have the quintessential overcard hand and probably a backdoor flush draw as backup.

It's an unusual play, I'll admit, but the oversized straddle makes it a weird spot for a cash game.

 

[Jimulacrum]

And I'll take that seat, BTW. This looks like a pretty juicy lineup, and I have a lot of history with them via DrStrange now.

 

[bergs]

I'd raise to $20 and hope to get 2 callers. Any diamond draw flop, or any single A or K and I'm betting $50 on the flop if checked to. AA or KK on the flop and I slow down (probably check it the board isn't wet). Flop diamonds and I'm betting $35 on the flop and hoping for 1 caller. If flop bricks I'm probably checking and re-evaluating.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Do you think your $15 raise is going to get it heads-up in this situation? Based on DrStrange's description, I'm feeling like it won't, in which case $15 leaves us with an awkward SPR in a multi-way pot.

A bigger raise makes it more likely that we'll get only one caller, and the pot will be a better size for us to make an overbet shove and take it down. It's not like $36 is even that disproportionate anyway; a pot-sized raise would be $20 already. I suppose $30 wouldn't be too bad either, but I'm building a pot with the intention of muscling it away from the caller on the flop, so I decided to go bigger. And if we get called on the flop, we have the quintessential overcard hand and probably a backdoor flush draw as backup.

It's an unusual play, I'll admit, but the oversized straddle makes it a weird spot for a cash game.

$36 is pretty bad. What do you think is calling you for $36 in a 1-1 game here? I'm insta folding JJ to that raise, and I'd probably fold QQ too. You're just going to steal the blinds until someone hangs you out to dry.

Note, I said $15+ because it depends on the game. In some games, 15 works here, others it doesn't. I'd probably bet somewhere between 15-20.

 

[DrStrange]

*** I'll take Berg's advice ***

Hero makes it $20 to go. Crazy Jr calls. Button and the blinds fold. The Ultimate Calling Station defends his straddle. Three way action with $62 in the pot, Hero holds . Effective stacks = $130 so SPR is just about two.

Flop is

The Ultimate Calling Station checks. Action on Hero. Bet or check? If Betting, how much?

DrStrange

 

[thorwilliam]

Since this is a board I will c-bet 100% with air I'll bet when I have it as well. I'd go about half pot.

 

[Trihonda]

I bet $55 (or check). 50/50 on how I'd play this.

 

[bivey]

Looks fishy if you check. c-bet 1/2 pot.

 

[bergs]

All depends on whether you c-bet 80% or more of the time when you raise pre. If you do, you must bet here. If you don't, check and WHEEEEEEE!

(EDIT: The 80% is from the villain's perspective...if you do c-bet 80% or more of the time with this crowd but they don't even notice, then just check anyway).

This one of the few spots I'd slowplay.....we're between a station that acted before us and a nutball LAG behind us, which is pretty perfect with flopped trips and top kicker on a board that is bone dry for straight or flush draws. Check behind, let LAGmonster Crazy Jr. fire, station calls, you can flat. Ship literally any turn.

 

[bivey]

All depends on whether you c-bet 80% or more of the time when you raise pre. If you do, you must bet here. If you don't, check and WHEEEEEEE!

Exactly this. If you usually c-bet, a checked flop and bet turn looks like a steal bet or a slow play, but either way, betting likely slows down from there.

 

[stocky]

$36 is pretty bad. What do you think is calling you for $36 in a 1-1 game here? I'm insta folding JJ to that raise, and I'd probably fold QQ too. You're just going to steal the blinds until someone hangs you out to dry.

Note, I said $15+ because it depends on the game. In some games, 15 works here, others it doesn't. I'd probably bet somewhere between 15-20.

Read some of the Drs posts. $36 may actually get you a few callers holding anything.

I agree with you, in a normal game $36 is nuts, and I'd raise somewhere from $15-$20.

 

[DrStrange]

It isn't crazy that someone would call $36 preflop even if there was only $8 other dollars in the pot. No doubt they would think Hero had a pair od jacks. . . .

 

[MillyS]

Exactly what bergs said, if you are perceived to be c-betting majority of the time, but because of the board texture, I am leaning more on the check/raise line. Seems like crazy Jr. Would likely be betting here (from my understanding of him anyway).

 

[Jimulacrum]

Read some of the Drs posts. $36 may actually get you a few callers holding anything.

I agree with you, in a normal game $36 is nuts, and I'd raise somewhere from $15-$20.

It isn't crazy that someone would call $36 preflop even if there was only $8 other dollars in the pot. No doubt they would think Hero had a pair od jacks. . . .

This is a major part of why I was going $36.

In a game full of unknowns, I'd go with a more traditional bet size. In this spot in this game, I'm basically targeting UCS (who has made a weird-for-a-calling-station $6 straddle) and/or hoping for one of the loose cannons to make a play at me.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Hero's table image is tight but even so people still call.

Given this, and the flop of K-K-6 rainbow, half-pottish bet of $30. We're probably in a crazy-dominating position right now, and if people want to pay anyway, let's make that money. The smallish bet sizing may even entice Crazy Jr to go for an ill-advised bluff, which would be pretty sweet.

 

[AlPresidente]

Bet $36. Check all turns. Shove all rivers.

 

[stocky]

Would you cbet an under pair or AA on a board like this usually?

If yes cbet $30ish.

If not check behind.

 

[RainmanTrail]

On the flop, you're winning this hand almost always, obviously. So the most important question I see is, "what betting line gives me the best chance at the rest of their chips?"

Villains have around $130 behind in a $60 pot, and the board is super dry. They're expecting you to barrel off here, and are unlikely to fold any pocket pair, and might even chase you down with hands like AQ or AJ to the river if the price is right.

I won't talk about what is the "best" play here, as that always depends on how the game is playing, and how well you know your opponents. But here are the pros and cons of various options.

1) checking - it looks pretty suspicious. You're "supposed" to bet that flop. It makes it pretty tough to win a big pot even if it works. You can't check that flop AND bet big enough on the river to get all their chips very often.

2) c-betting light (say $15) - this suffers from the same issues as checking, with the added 'WTF' value of goading a hand like 99 to come over the top of you with a decent sized raise. They might think you completely missed and are just trying to keep the pot small in case your AQ/AJ is good. A lot of hands will call here though. Hands like JT or 3 flushes and 3 straights are coming along for $15. If they pair the turn, you're probably getting a decent payoff. But again, it's tough to stack anyone.

3) mid sized c-bet (20-35) - doesn't give much information away about your hand, still gets a lot of hands to call, and begins to build a pot.

4) larger c-bet (40-50) - a bet of this size changes the dynamic of the hand. If they're facing a $50 bet on the flop, and they look down at only $130 left, they suddenly realize that they need to make a decision about the hand right now, as to whether they want to take it to showdown or not. If you suspect either of your opponents have a decent pocket pair or that they might call a bet this size with AQ, then this could work. But that JT and 78o who would be calling $20 are both folding now (usually). However, if you get a pocket pair to call here for $50, and even if the other player folds, then you each have $80 left on the river in a $162 pot. And unless an ace falls on the river, or they boat up, then you're probably stacking them.

5) pot sized bet - you'll get fewer hands to pay you off than the $40-50 wager, lowering your odds of stacking someone. If stacks were deeper, this play would have more merit. But you need to balance these bets with your semi bluff hands and complete air hands for it to work. Otherwise, observant players will eat you alive. It's important to keep stack sizes in mind here. Note that a pre flop raise to 20, and a flop c-bet of 50 with one caller leaves us each with $80 remaining on the turn in a $162 pot. So that money is going in almost regardless. Getting more money into the pot than this puts pressure on hands to fold that you actually wanted a call from, and you end up winning the same amount from the hands that were paying you off either way.

6) big bets (larger than pot size) - this is just taking a shortcut to the inevitable if the villains happen to have one of a handful of hands that they're planning to show down regardless. But you're missing out on $ from a lot of hands that would have called a smaller bet here. You're also letting good players off the hook if you don't make these kinds of bets with hands like QJs.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Would you cbet an under pair or AA on a board like this usually?

If yes cbet $30ish.

If not check behind.

Yes, almost 100% of the time on this board. I'm probably c-betting everything except occasionally checking AQ, 22-55.

And if I'm playing against people who know that a check from me on this flop = AQ, 22-55, then I'm not checking it

 

[RainmanTrail]

This is a major part of why I was going $36.

In a game full of unknowns, I'd go with a more traditional bet size. In this spot in this game, I'm basically targeting UCS (who has made a weird-for-a-calling-station $6 straddle) and/or hoping for one of the loose cannons to make a play at me.

The main problem with betting $36 isn't with the donkeys (though I think they're folding far more hands than many of you guys think they are). The problem with betting $36 manifests itself when good players are sitting behind you still left to act.

 

[Trihonda]

I bet $55 (or check). 50/50 on how I'd play this.

Ooops, misread the $130 as the pot size. Derr... Ya, I'd vote for a $30 bet on the flop.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I would have limp jammed pre. As played, c-bet to $30 or so, low enough that people may think you're putting out a blocker bet, but not too low as to arouse suspicions.

 

[moojersey]

I agree with chippy. Especially with Crazy Jr. acting after us I am limping $6 to set up the trap. Hoping either Crazy Jr. (or anyone else, but counting on Crazy Jr. to come through for us) raises it or the straddle re-pops so that we can shove.

As played I think we need to set the hand up so we can get our stack in without scaring people off. Crazy Jr. is in the hand. I think he might try to make a play at this board. We are probably waaaaaayyyy ahead, probably too far ahead to merit a bet.

I say check flop. Hope that Crazy Jr. bets something. We will flat his bet.

If he checks behind, we are betting $35 on any turn, to set up the $100 shove on the river.

 

[DrStrange]

*** on to the turn ***

Hero makes a fancy play and checks. Sadly Crazy Jr does not bite.

Three way action with $62 in the pot, Hero holds . Effective stacks remain $130.

Turn is < >

USC checks, action on Hero. Should he bet or check? If betting, how much and why?

DrStrange

 

[Mr Tree]

*** on to the turn ***

Hero makes a fancy play and checks. Sadly Crazy Jr does not bite.

Three way action with $62 in the pot, Hero holds . Effective stacks remain $130.

Turn is < >

USC checks, action on Hero. Should he bet or check? If betting, how much and why?

DrStrange

I think checking against these guys is a mistake. They will call when they shouldn't way to often. Bet $35-$40