Advice Requested: New NIT On The Block (1 Viewer)

[BPTDirector]

The old adage is you have to give action to get action. Explain if he is too nitty no one will juice up pots he is in unless they have premium hands and that will make for minimal wins on nights he does well.

 

[Taxi500]

This whole gripe is ridiculous.

He even chose to put in the double straddle to $8, which is certainly not a nitty play and wasn't required of him. Most nits won't even put in the first straddle.

When it came back around for the $16 total, it's not like he was nitting out of completing the SB for $1 (which would be fine anyway). He was choosing not to dump 4 BB more on a hand where he already put in 4 BB blind, probably just to make the degens happy.

For all you know, he looked down at 49 offsuit and didn't feel like lighting $8 on fire for no real reason.

"But it's the last hand! But he was the big winner! But but but but but!"

Sounds like the main "but" here is that people were sore that they lost and didn't get an artificial chance to claw a bunch of it back on the last hand.

A bunch of sore losers haranguing the big stack for folding is more a problem with the sore losers' behavior than the big stack's play choices.

Imagine if he'd completed with some raggedy hand and cleared 3 more guys out of their stacks on the last hand.

Then that would be the gripe instead.

You're not wrong (although 7/8 guys at the table would light $8 on fire if they had 49o there with 1.8k in front of them) however the only way for me to emphasize my point would be to show you a replay of the night.

This lines up pretty well with my thoughts.

It's especially hard to fit in with a group of heavy drinkers when you don't drink.

You also don't know if the money in play is really significant for this guy. I remember joining Berg's game ages ago when I was just a sub-$1/2 NLHE player with a $500 bankroll, sitting circus games with guys who brought more cash in an envelope that I had total to my name. I wasn't unfriendly, but I certainly wasn't going to light money on fire to entertain these guys who could dust off my monthly income and barely notice the loss.

Also fair!

 

[Goosefraba]

Nits are Nits so I’d suggest mandatory half bottle tequila chug before he plays and every time he’s on the button bomb pot it up. And if he starts to get socially distant again then another couple tequila shots

 

[doctorchips]

At the end of the day, he's a player willing to put cash on your table.

Let people play their own game and exploit it. If he's a nit nit nit, you should be able to easily bully him and steal so many blinds from him. When he's raising or reraising you know he has it every single time.

 

[chippitydoodah]

•How many of your games has NIT attended?
•Does NIT play mostly tournaments vs cash games?

 

[Santa123]

Fellow hosts/players,

Been running a successful home game for a while. The action is great and it's a good combination of young aggressive/semi-aggressive types with 1-2 more passive 'safe' players in there too.

We've recently invited some new players all in line with this "Vibe"... except for one. Energy drink type & the NIT-iest 25 year old I've met. Tight tight tight. He had a huge win yesterday (1.5k+ on our 1/2 table) and what really set me off was this: At the end of the game, tripple straddle is on and its $8 more for him to play. He has 1.8k+ in front of him and FOLDS the last hand with everyone cheering and laughing because it's $8. The table semi-exploded with "what the fuck are you doing dude" type comments because it felt just so lame in a family-pot to fold when you're the night's big winner.

I've fielded a few complaints from other players but this guy is very very nice and respectful. I have nothing personally against him besides how tight he makes the table when he opens/3B.

How do I handle a player/situation like this?

Introduce the Nit Game aka Stand Up Game without standing up to the crew.

 

[Labrat]

So everybody's pissed because they got outplayed?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

So everybody's pissed because they got outplayed?

No.

 

[Labrat]

Then I don't understand what the complaint is. Playing tight against loose/aggressive players is a legit strategy. I do it all the time when certain players are at my game. If he's being a douchebag at the table, that's one thing, but from what I'm reading is they're not happy with his style of play. To me that is absolutely ridiculous.

I bet these same players complaining about him would lose their minds if he played that last hand and sucked out a gutshot on the river to beat the two pair and three-of-a-kind he's up against.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I sort-of need him now but not really. I also don't want to boot him yet it hasn't gotten to that point. I think I'll just have a chat with him.

Yeah he was not giving any action the whole game even with 1.5k+ in front of him at a 1/2 table. Then, the $8 thing just pissed everyone off. He hadn't been straddling, talking, or playing much at all after his big win. So to do that on the last hand in a pot where even the losing players are throwing $16 calls into the middle AND he only has $8 more to call... just a bad look for him.

Not a good friend barely know him. He's one of a few new guys that joined from another game and they're all nice and cool.

What if he hit the nuts and won the last hand? Still his fault?
He came to gamble and took good risks, got lucky, or both.
I'd rather invite him to my games than not invite him because me and my friends were unlucky or dumb enough to give him all our money. That would be on us, not him.

Sometimes our big winners bring a little extra food or drink to share the next time we play. I'd see if he did that and how he treats everyone. If he's not a cocky winner then it's the losers own fault for losing.

Can't handle losing then don't play. That's not how gambling or winning works. That's like a mediocre football team only playing againsts terrible teams to win and get good records. You'll never get better if you don't play teams better than yours.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Then I don't understand what the complaint is. Playing tight against loose/aggressive players is a legit strategy. I do it all the time when certain players are at my game. If he's being a douchebag at the table, that's one thing, but from what I'm reading is they're not happy with his style of play. To me that is absolutely ridiculous.

I bet these same players complaining about him would lose their minds if he played that last hand and sucked out a gutshot on the river to beat the two pair and three-of-a-kind he's up against.

Two very different situations. I would take that bet, winky face and all: big winner luckbox taking down a lucky hand with any two cards is a better story and better for the game/more fun than big winner locks up several buyins and refuses to chip in for a last hand $8 straddle. My players would not equate those, not sure if yours would.

Comes back to home poker being a social contract. Hes allowed to do it, sure, and Id agree with you that its ridiculous if the host tried to set a minimum vpip or something, but he wont be invited back if hes not fun to play with. People that play poker to have fun and gamble dont want someone quietly playing like a nit, its just not fun. A last hand straddle with all eyes on him is an easy way to keep favor in his corner. No one is telling him to do $100 flips.

Run your game however you'd like, but nits are boring. If I'm up, I make a point to loosen up a bit especially near the end of the night to make sure the fish have fun and I get invited back. This straddle would've been +EV longrun, ESPECIALLY if he earned his stack by outplaying the table.

 

[Labrat]

Two very different situations. I would take that bet, winky face and all: big winner luckbox taking down a lucky hand with any two cards is a better story and better for the game/more fun than big winner locks up several buyins and refuses to chip in for a last hand $8 straddle. My players would not equate those, not sure if yours would.

Comes back to home poker being a social contract. Hes allowed to do it, sure, and Id agree with you that its ridiculous if the host tried to set a minimum vpip or something, but he wont be invited back if hes not fun to play with. People that play poker to have fun and gamble dont want someone quietly playing like a nit, its just not fun. A last hand straddle with all eyes on him is an easy way to keep favor in his corner. No one is telling him to do $100 flips.

Run your game however you'd like, but nits are boring. If I'm up, I make a point to loosen up a bit especially near the end of the night to make sure the fish have fun and I get invited back. This straddle would've been +EV longrun, ESPECIALLY if he earned his stack by outplaying the table.

Then you and I are just going to have to disagree. I'm there to play poker, not just roll dice and give my winnings away.

(no winky face needed)

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Fellow hosts/players,

Been running a successful home game for a while. The action is great and it's a good combination of young aggressive/semi-aggressive types with 1-2 more passive 'safe' players in there too.

We've recently invited some new players all in line with this "Vibe"... except for one. Energy drink type & the NIT-iest 25 year old I've met. Tight tight tight. He had a huge win yesterday (1.5k+ on our 1/2 table) and what really set me off was this: At the end of the game, tripple straddle is on and its $8 more for him to play. He has 1.8k+ in front of him and FOLDS the last hand with everyone cheering and laughing because it's $8. The table semi-exploded with "what the fuck are you doing dude" type comments because it felt just so lame in a family-pot to fold when you're the night's big winner.

I've fielded a few complaints from other players but this guy is very very nice and respectful. I have nothing personally against him besides how tight he makes the table when he opens/3B.

How do I handle a player/situation like this?

When I opened this, I expected a story about a player that was drunk and disrespecting your game and other players, which was a situation that I had to deal with. Trust me, that situation can escalate into a fist fight quickly if allowed to go on for too long.

I don't personally see an issue with your situation. I understand that he had a large stack and others were salivating at the "hope" of taking some of it. I personally think folding was a GREAT call here, but that's just my humble opinion.

We have a handfull of players that LOVE wild aggressive play, and others that don't. The wild children do $100, well somtimes $400, buck ups, while the others fold and go refill their drinks. Everybody gets their rush of choice. As long as everynody is respectful...no issues.

Anyway, just my two cents. Good luck!

 

[JustinInMN]

We've recently invited some new players all in line with this "Vibe"... except for one. Energy drink type & the NIT-iest 25 year old I've met. Tight tight tight.

Start bluffing him more. The beauty of poker is for every strategy there is a counter strategy. Bluffing is the counter strategy for nits.

He has 1.8k+ in front of him and FOLDS the last hand with everyone cheering and laughing because it's $8. The table semi-exploded with "what the fuck are you doing dude" type comments because it felt just so lame in a family-pot to fold when you're the night's big winne

People fold hands for $10 in $5-$10 game routinely with this kind of stack. That's all straddling does is effectively raise the BB for the hand and makes everyone's stacks shorter in terms BB.

I've fielded a few complaints from other players but this guy is very very nice and respectful. I have nothing personally against him besides how tight he makes the table when he opens/3B.

One player per hand. Each player makes their own decision. If they can't figure out a counter strategy, that's their fault.

 

[JustinInMN]

He's not the only NIT at our game but he's the first to piss people off with his lack of social engagement. I think that's a better way to phrase everything I said.

Right now he's perceived as a Red bull drinking, quite, NIT. Everyone else is beer drinking, loud, and LAGgy.

Oh so the real complaint comes out a few posts later. This issue is a little different though I am struggling with the concept that red bill drinkers are quiet. Yes, it's not liquor, but still it still energizes people off the wall.

Maybe give him the heads up he's coming off as standoffish, but that's about the ceiling here for me. If you give a group of players too much power over who is in or out, your invite list will become much shorter than you like.

 

[jr8719]

They aren't adjusting well enough bc they're not fantastic players and it's not been that long with him.

This guy doesn't sound like a nit: he just sounds like the best player at the table. If the other players can't adjust, then that's their problem — not his.

 

[KHarp1]

So let me see if I have this right... you're upset because you invited a poker player to your degen gambling night, he won, and to top it off, he wasn't socially engaging? I get the "not socially engaging" part, sometimes it's just not a fit, but, the crux of your argument is that this guy didn't want to put money in on the last hand and got blasted for not doing so, and, that tells me more about your group than it does the new guy. A degen is ok with putting good money in after bad, can give you a long excuse for putting money in with 7-2 off pre flop in a non 7-2 game, etc.

If it truly isn't a good social fit then so be it, but, from the way it sounds it wasn't a glaring "first time guy we knew wasn't going to work within the first 15 minutes" situation...from your description. He's got your money, invite him back and see if anyone is good enough to win some of it back.

 

[HiveKueen]

Based on this conversation I plan to stay away from home cash games cause my poker goals align with playing prudently all the time so that when I go to the casino I don’t have bad habits!

 

[Kentucky]

losing players are throwing $16 calls into the middle AND he only has $8 more to call.

So… the “Nit” had the $8 straddle on? What more do you want?

I play in a home game and to be honest the stakes are a little high for my roll so I’m on the tight end of the table, but I take the chips (of course I do) and I adjudicate the rules, so I get invited back.

These boys like to gamble and enjoy bomb pots. I’m more interested in trying to play “good” poker (whatever that is) and massively multiway pots with loose calls makes me tighten up - though my image does let me get the odd bluff through.

That said I do still flick in the 2.5BB for the bomb pots to join in the vibe and tend to play looser once/if I’m up.

So what does this confessional mean for OP? Vibe is most important for home games. And if someone is killing the mood then you don’t need them. But I’d no more call out a nit for being nitty than I’d call out a LAG for over betting the turn every hand.

 

[Huskerchipper]

This blows my mind. If a player is a good respectable person he is fine at my game. Send him my way. It's up to my players to adjust to different play...not the new guys responsibility to play the way most of the people in my group plays. If you can't adjust to a different way of play you aren't a very good player. I would just play BINGO or something maybe.

 

[Dbxela]

Fundamentally no problem here; tease him if the social atmosphere suits it, maybe give him a nickname that expresses the nittiness. If games would be over subscribed, push him down the preference order.

 

[upNdown]

Not every player is right for every game. If a player isn’t telling jokes or giving out stock tips, he damn well better be giving action. If he doesn’t do any of those things, it doesn’t matter how legit of a strategy TAG is; it won’t do him any good when he’s not invited.

 

[Gorbash]

so that's the bottom line.

 

[Mojo1312]

If he's playing by the rules, then he doesn't deserve any penalty for doing so, no matter what the "culture" of the game is. But the host has full discretion about who is invited and when, so that's the bottom line.

I agree with the above. Over the years I have listened to people complain. You called me with xx? You folded A/K pre-flop to a 3bet? Yada-yada-yada. I have heard people complain how often so and so wins or how much so and so won. I don't give two shits.

If a player wants to call another players $30 raise in a $1/$2 game with a $5 straddle holding three, five off-suit. Fine! If he hits a wheel on the flop against a player who flops a set of aces and holds, even better. It is poker! We all know what we are signing up for when we take our seat at the table.

I am not going to tell someone how they should play when it is their money. Seriously. All I ask is you show up to the game on time, be respectful and enjoy yourself.

What's next? Shame the nit into flipping a quarter for a hundo?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

What's next? Shame the nit into flipping a quarter for a hundo?

Only if he's drinking Red Bull and prefers 4-color decks.

 

[Rieguy]

I made the nittiest fold of all time this weekend (w/ two PCFers as my witnesses) and dgaf. Hellmuth would've been proud. Someone either vibes with your game or they don't; as host that's for you to decide. You don't need any reason beyond that unless you're actively looking for a particular excuse.

 

[Taghkanic]

Kid can do whatever he wants.

But he ought to learn the lesson that tossing up $8 at the end of the night to get invited back to a game where you left with $1,500 is not just basic poker etiquette, but good for his long-term bankroll.

Ditto not shutting it down completely once you get up.

My guess is that the money meant a lot more to him than most players, and he just had tunnel vision about protecting the win.

 

[BPTDirector]

I guess just tell everyone griping ‘ play better’.

 

[Mojo1312]

@Taxi500. I am 10 years removed from hosting an actual home game. Taking on the responsibilities of hosting a cash game at a membership only club last year has jaded me. There is no reward in listening to grown men bitch about how someone played their hand or grouch over asinine little things that occur at the table instead of being civil and moving on.

The frequency with which I said "next hand" or "that was the last hand" shredded all the pleasure I thought I would derive from overseeing the game.

To your original post, every home game I have played in has its own unique atmosphere and expectations of table etiquette from players.

You received some great feedback well tailored to your situation. Two posts in particular standout.

Tough question, but it all depends on what your atmosphere and game are like. That's a significant win. If he's a good friend and all that, pull him aside and explain how that looks. Explain that this isn't a casino, this is a private game where people come to play for fun and its a privilege and you gotta keep people happy.

Depending on the friend, you can frame it two ways:

1. The competitor: frame it as you can only kill a sheep once and shear it many times, straddling and giving back when you're the huge obvious winner is +EV in the long run, you want them to continue to enjoy and gamble with you so you can keep winning. Kind of a meta conversation.
2. The nit who just missed social cues: you looked like a dick leaving like that, definitely earned the win and hey you played great! But when everyone being goofy and gambling got you the stack, you should try to end on a good note. Just a social conversation.

Some people have no idea how this is perceived, I'd definitely talk to him. Not an outright ban but just a heads up that his actions might affect the game. If he just replies with "No, respectfully fuck those guys I earned this money", tell him to take the attitude to a casino, but they usually respond very well.

Not straddling or wanting to call an $8 straddle, especially knowing it will get raised at some point before the flop and be folded anyways doesn’t seem like it should be an issue. But being part of the group and trying to fit in is. Part of any home game is understanding it’s not a casino game with a random assortment of players. It is a group that know each other pretty well and usually for a long time. Trying to fit in with an existing group isn’t always easy for some people. I wouldn’t say anything about his style of poker to him, that is his way to play, but mentioning to him about being a little more social and contributing to conversations would help the rest of the group accept him more. Especially if he is regular winner. They don’t want to be seen as his cash cow only.

Apologies for the salty response.

 

[Taghkanic]

@Taxi500. I am Taking on the responsibilities of hosting a cash game at a membership only club last year has jaded me.

Have you written this experience up elsewhere on PCF? I’d be very interested in that… How the games were organized, not to mention the juicy details of player foibles…