A6s, OOP 5 handed

DrStrange

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Playing 1-2 live, five handed. It is very late in the session. The clock ticking down to 2:30 when we decided to call it a night. Less than ten hands left. By now the game is polarized, three winners feasting on two desperate losers.

Cast of characters:

Hero sits in the SB with $700. Hero has taken some tough punches and dealt hard blows in return this session but in the end Hero is ahead. The table is going to misread Hero's range a lot, remembering how Hero played at 10PM / nine handed and not considering how short handed we are. Respect means they aren't likely to raise lightly but folding is, as always, your last choice.

The BB has $325 on a huge buy in. He is on a long down swing, I don't know if he was won a session this year. BB is playing a lot fewer sessions to the down turn. BB is hyper-loose / somewhat passive preflop but the poster child for LAGtard post flop. He bets a lot and wins a lot of small pots but when he loses a pot, it leaves a mark. BB bets with 'something', maybe as weak as a gut shot or two over-cards rarely a stone cold bluff.

UTG is our old friend, Crazy playing $200 also on a huge buy in. Crazy is worn down this late in the session. His mortal foe went broke and left hours ago. He is still wild and crazy, but in a subdued way.

CO is an unlikely winner. He sits on about $1,000 and is doing quite well for the night. This is our classic calling station, though as his stack grows he develops more aggression, a few bold bluffs and some trickery. Still quite passive preflop, if he three-bets he is playing the top 1% - 2% of the range. Much more capable up $700 than when breakeven or down for the night.

The button is playing $1,100 or so and is the big winner tonight. Loose pre-flop / fit-fold post flop. He can be passive tricky. Willing to pay a chunk to see a flop, even vs Hero. Button is on a world-wide heater this year, likely winning at 5x his normal rate. We started joking with him that he could be a poker pro but I begin to wonder if he is starting to believe that now.

Button is going to make adjustments for 5-handed play. The other villains don't do that (though one might say they play ten handed like it was four handed.)

The hand:

Crazy straddles to $5. CO and Button call the straddle.

Action on Hero holding :ad: :6d:. Raise, call or fold. If raising, how much and why. (In the last hour hero 3-bet to $30 in a similar situation holding a top ranked hand and got all but one villain to call. So if you are raising to thin the field, forget about it.)

DrStrange
 
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Ronoh

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Call. I'm never folding a suited ace in any position to a $5 straddle in the last 10 hands of the night but I can't find a valid reason to raise here.
 

Gear

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I'd call, but wouldn't/couldn't raise. It's bloating the pot for no reason and will gain no information. That said, if BB or straddle raises, probably no-one else is folding anyway, so get ready to see a $90 five-handed pot where we're first to act on the flop.

Yuck. The good news is this flop is either going to hit us hard or be an easy fold.
 

Trihonda

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I'd call, but wouldn't/couldn't raise. It's bloating the pot for no reason and will gain no information. That said, if BB or straddle raises, probably no-one else is folding anyway, so get ready to see a $90 five-handed pot where we're first to act on the flop.

Yuck. The good news is this flop is either going to hit us hard or be an easy fold.

Yup, this ^
 

DrStrange

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*** someone peeked ***

Hero flats the straddle. BB calls, Crazy makes it $17 to play. CO and Button call.

Action on Hero. Raise, call or fold. If raising, how much and why?

DrStrange

PS A6s is arguably the best hand on average at a five man table. Bad position and big stacks degrade the value of Hero's hand. Should Hero consider a raise if he holds the button, even though the field is likely to call anyway?
 

Trihonda

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Call, getting priced in with everyone else calling. As Gear said, the flop will be very polarizing for you. Either you've got a hand/solid draw, or you don't.
 

Trihonda

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I think the flop is coming A36, and you'll turn a 6. Just sayin

...or its coming KKQ all black.
 

Ben

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Call. Time for a nice AJ3r flop. One diamond, just to keep hope alive.

I absolutely would have raised on the button 5-handed.
 

DrStrange

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*** Ok, on to the flop (or Trihona must have been there) ***

Everyone calls, $85 in the pot with five way action.

Flop: :ah: :5s: :6h:

Action on Hero, bet or check. If betting, how much and why? Any future thoughts?

DrStrange
 

Trihonda

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Insta-fold.. No flush draw :(

But seriously, if the turn is a 6, I'm buying a lottery tix.

Ok, Im torn between trying to take it down now, thinning the heard, or inducing a shove (snap call).

I think I'm going to play in flow, and allow crazy to bet. I'm gonna go with the CR here. How much to raise tho..? Depends on crazy's action.
 
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atomiktoaster

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$100-150. Hopefully crazy jams and we can get another chance to act with a better read on the big stacks. Jam if they want to play a heart draw at that point.
 

Gear

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I was going to say the same thing as Trihonda - just fold right now, because one of these clowns has :jh: :4h: and will catch the :8h: on the turn, or more likely in my case, the river. I don't feel like puking today, so I fold. :eek:;)


OK, not really. Hero's hand is huge but vulnerable - I'm not waiting for others to bet for me. I'm betting $80 here and shoving if I get raised. The only likely holdings that we're behind are 55 and 66 -- if villain has one of those, nh gg, that's poker. I'm not concerned about AA because of the (lack of) pre-flop action.
 

Trihonda

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I was going to say the same thing as Trihonda - just fold right now, because one of these clowns has :jh: :4h: and will catch the :8h: on the turn, or more likely in my case, the river. I don't feel like puking today, so I fold. :eek:;)


OK, not really. Hero's hand is huge but vulnerable - I'm not waiting for others to bet for me. I'm betting $80 here and shoving if I get raised. The only likely holdings that we're behind are 55 and 66 -- if villain has one of those, nh gg, that's poker. I'm not concerned about AA because of the (lack of) pre-flop action.

Problem I see with this, is it leave some equity on the table. I think we are ahead right now, but yes vulnerable. However, a big raise OOP seems rediculously strong and we might lose the customers we want to keep in the hand (for now). If the Dr thinks it could possibly get checked around, then yes, bet. However, it's crazy we are taking about. Is there a chance he's not C-betting? I think he's gonna bet, and we are gonna CR him big, maybe shove! Then we pot commit (and hopefully isolate) crazy.
 

Gear

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I considered that, but I think at this table, the argument for check-raising is the same argument for just betting out and hoping for someone to raise. There is no way this is getting checked around, but I also doubt that a bet here just gets flatted.
 

DrStrange

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Hero was torn on the question about the hand getting checked around. I think it is possible but not likely. Let's guess 30% checked around 70% someone bets.

DrStrange
 

Ben

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We are eyeing BB and Crazy's stacks here. Hero needs to decide right now whether or not he is willing to stack off against CO and Button no matter what. Would either of them ever just get in $700 on the flop with less than a set?

If so, just lead for $200. Seriously. Just one caller will be just as good as 3 callers of a ~$65-70 bet, and one of these guys will level himself into doing it. But if CO or Button jam over that, we have to call.

If not and there's a chance I could fold to one the deep stacks, I probably go the C/R route.
 

DrStrange

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A big over bet by Hero is going to get unexpected responses from everyone at the table. A bet that big, so deep, would be well outside of Hero's normal range. I suspect CO and button fold one pair hands, but I have no data just a gut reaction. Even Crazy and BB might fold to that big a bet with a hand like 77 or 86. Crazy and BB likely would call with a nut draw or a "good" draw (what ever that is in their minds).

I think BB and Crazy would call a $50 bet with bottom pair, no kicker.

DrStrange
 

DrStrange

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I am still hoping for more opinions. Let me say a little about what hero is thinking.

Hero is targeting two stacks, BB ($325) and Crazy ($200). The bigger stacks aren't likely to available unless Hero fills up and they hold a weaker full house.

With $85 in preflop, it is not going to be hard to play for stacks vs either of the targets - SPR of 4 and 2.5, So Hero need not go to extremes to make his goal.

Don't read much into crazy's preflop raise. He is desperate and the raise most often is an effort to raise the stakes so if he wins, the pot will be worth while. I don't know that he even thinks about such things as a C-bet after raising preflop.

Even the awful villains aren't going to lose much with no pair/no draw hands. Best hope would be to capture a bluff bet by check/raising.

Both villains could lose money with hands as weak as bottom pair though stacking them isn't as likely.

There are a lot more bottom pair hands than top or second pair hands. (and by this time of night, both of the losers might well play something like T5s or worse)

Hero can choose to target different kinds of hands. Hero has to bet harder to capture stacks from drawing hands. Hero has to be gentle to extract value from weak hands. I expect both villains could stack off with any ace.

Hero's reputation is going to serve him well vs CO or Button. Neither of them is likely to raise Hero without a really good hand. (I have seen CO check call bottom set to showdown in the face of Hero's aggression.) If they raise a bet by Hero, it means business and they should be taken very seriously. The real risk come if Hero checks only to have the betting come back around with bet from a targeted villain and a raise from a big stack. The pot will be huge at that point and commitment will be an issue.

So the banquet is set - but who gets to feast and who gets to pay the tab?

DrStrange
 

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I think you bet pot. Not getting called by nothing, but wet board means lots of draws are coming along. Bet pot and charge full amount to draw. Re-eval after turn. Not looking for any hearts, 3,4,7,8. Actually, what card does hero want? Any broadway and villains could pair door cards for bigger ace, anything smaller has chance to fill in straights. Looking for a black deuce or 9 I think. ;)

I'm think when called you are:
up against heart draws: easy to read.
straight draws: still pretty easy
top pair, ? kicker: potential trouble and harder to spot. not likely to induce folds with any bet.
set: seems unlikely given this bunch, but never miscounted.
weaker two pair and single pair hands: most likely, and profitable.

** Now that I think about it, I think I check raise to put max pressure on second best hands and draws. A bet call is not going to garner much info if you are not likely to get raised. You have likely best holding that is vulnerable. I personally like to win these pots early before the board gets hard to read given wide range of villain hands. That's me and I have hard time with these situations, but if you like a little variance, you bet and build a nice pot.
 
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Ugh. Everyone's in the wrong seats. We almost definitely have the best hand but I hate this spot. Bet $60ish and potentially we can still end up 5-way with every turn card being scary. Overbetting feels like we're leaving money on the table and possibly playing a huge hand OOP if we get called in late position. Don't love checking in case it checks round or an EP bet gets raised in LP.
So, I bet £26 hoping to get an EP ace to raise me. If everyone calls, at least the pot's smaller. If LP 4-bets, it's easier to get away.

OOP, deep is just ugly to play.
 

DrStrange

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*** On to the turn ***

Hero bets $65. BB calls. All the other villains fold. $215 in the pot, heads up, effective stacks = $243.

Turn : < :ah: :5s: :6h: > :8c:

Action on Hero, check or bet. If betting how much? Is Hero pot committed by one more bet? Is he committed now?

DrStrange

PS for what it is worth, a repeat of the villain read -

The BB starts the hand with $325 on a huge buy in. He is on a long down swing, I don't know if he was won a session this year. BB is playing a lot fewer sessions to the down turn. BB is hyper-loose / somewhat passive preflop but the poster child for LAGtard post flop. He bets a lot and wins a lot of small pots but when he loses a pot, it leaves a mark. BB bets with 'something', maybe as weak as a gut shot or two over-cards rarely a stone cold bluff.
 

Ben

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One of the best cards Hero could hope for. Bet $160. I want a call (as long as villain is paying enough to make it a bad one.)
 

CHP TD

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I cant see anyreason for hero not to bet - You have to...Right?!?! if you dont then the villian can put pressure on you. If he does what then? fold? how could you?

checking in this position is just bad poker. How could you check here? would anyone check here?

jam DO IT NOW! If hes chasing something you cant give him the odds to call but impleid odds are the killer here. I cant see anyway for the villian not to call.

So there are 3 possible scenerios 1 You jam probably best 2 you check probably worst. 3 what you should have done once you find out what the villian has after you jammed.


So over all this hand will play itself. You just cant let the villian suck out for free. Period.
 

Luk_nuts

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I bet $145, making it look like you would still fold to a raise, which you will never do.
If we shove we wont let our opponent do many mistakes, which is the key of the game.
He might also call with crushed hands like 5xhh or 8xhh, hands he might fold to a shove...

BTW: In a tournament I would be more likely to shove, but here we have to get max value from our hand
 
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