PAHWM: strange pre flop action (2 Viewers)

[Beakertwang]

This one happened last night. 1/1 NLHE, 8 handed.

Key players:
SB: $180. Very splashy, loves to gamble. Won't bat an eye at losing 6 or more buy-ins.
Hero UTG: $372. I have a somewhat nitty image, and I try to use it to my advantage
CO: $500. Solid LAG. Has been on an absolute heater tonight, and really for the last 4 or 5 sessions. Just seems to hit whatever he needs.

Hero has . Opens to $6 (pretty standard). MP calls, CO 3! to $20. Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Action on hero.

 

[LotsOfChips]

Normally I would suggest a 4!, but...

Has been on an absolute heater tonight, and really for the last 4 or 5 sessions. Just seems to hit whatever he needs.

so fold and watch the SB get sucked out on.

 

[JMC9389]

Pop it to $120

 

[MrCatPants]

you call here you are turning QQ into a set mining hand. 4 b to 75.

given you didnt include a description of MP i gather they are not relevant to the hand but we do have to consider bloating a pot out of position if the call parade starts and it could start with mp.

 

[suchj0sh]

3-betting a Nit UTG open sounds like a strong range, but given LAG description, a larger 4b sounds good to me. Like 80-100.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero has a nitty image and open raises from bad position. The solid lag three bets. One flatting villain, another yet to act.

Let's say Hero is not folding to aggression from the LAG. So, flat or four bet?

Hero runs a RIO risk if he four bets. The LAG can fold the bad end of his range vs a 4-bet. <assuming the LAG has a bad part of his range. Could be the LAG's 3! range vs Hero UTG raise is rather tight.> Hero has to consider if this villain can fold something like 87s or 88 or A-rag suited knowing the SPR is going to be pretty low.

Hero can flat and take a fit/fold approach to the post flop play if he chooses to. This is +EV vs folding. Not clear if flat or 3! has the highest +EV. Lots depends on Hero's ability to navigate OOP and deep stacked post flop.

Being OOP is tough vs a skilled player. The more skilled Hero is vs the field, the more I favor a four-bet. No shame in taking the "safer" flatting path.

PS We need to really consider what plan Hero has after a 4! and a difficult flop. He still has over 200bb behind and an SPR of ~~3

 

[upNdown]

Pop it to $120

Why so high?

 

[RagingAZN]

Hmm gross spot. Have we got any reads on LAG’s 3B or 4B continuing range?

Some players might be very LAG when 3B but might have a very tight 4B range.

Regardless, I like a 4B to around $80. Being OOP sucks.

 

[JMC9389]

Why so high?

Gets the bullshit hands out of the way. I tend to favor larger 3! Or 4! sizing against looser players. I'm looking to get this heads up against the small blind that at this point would have a SPR of less than one.

 

[theshepherd]

Im probably the one who loses the hand quickest but i would probably raise it to 60.

 

[ningolfsland]

Triple pickle and a nickel - go to 80 and hope he jams. LFG!

 

[Beakertwang]

Duplicate post.

 

[Beakertwang]

This one happened last night. 1/1 NLHE, 8 handed.

Key players:
SB: $180. Very splashy, loves to gamble. Won't bat an eye at losing 6 or more buy-ins.
Hero UTG: $372. I have a somewhat nitty image, and I try to use it to my advantage
CO: $500. Solid LAG. Has been on an absolute heater tonight, and really for the last 4 or 5 sessions. Just seems to hit whatever he needs.

Hero has . Opens to $6 (pretty standard). MP calls, CO 3! to $20. Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Action on hero.

I felt like this was a 4-bet, and I was prepared to fold if CO comes back over the top.

Hero has 3 barrels of 5’s, and my extra 1’s and 5’s (including my initial raise) totaled $72, so I put that in.

CO flats. Then, to my surprise, the SB back raises all in for $180.

Pot is now about $330, hero has $300.

What’s hero’s play?

 

[JMC9389]

Jam.

 

[MrCatPants]

splashy and maniac are different. this is almost always aces with an unknown player. splashy included. maniac its a jam. less than that and hero fold is an option.

 

[Beakertwang]

splashy and maniac are different. this is almost always aces with an unknown player. splashy included. maniac its a jam. less than that and hero fold is an option.

SB is maniac-adjacent, for sure. Aces would’ve been jammed the first time around.

 

[MrCatPants]

SB is maniac-adjacent, for sure. Aces would’ve been jammed the first time around.

jam then.

 

[DrStrange]

Jam and hope for the best. The dead money from the LAG sweetens the deal. "WE HOPE!"

 

[JMC9389]

SB is maniac-adjacent, for sure. Aces would’ve been jammed the first time around.

This is my thinking. Aces or kings would have just jammed after the three bet to try and get it heads up.

I have good reason to believe queens are ahead here. This screams AK/AQ, even AJ and A10 suited for CO, and 8's through Jack's for the SB.

 

[Beakertwang]

I felt like this was a 4-bet, and I was prepared to fold if CO comes back over the top.

Hero has 3 barrels of 5’s, and my extra 1’s and 5’s (including my initial raise) totaled $72, so I put that in.

CO flats. Then, to my surprise, the SB back raises all in for $180.

Pot is now about $330, hero has $300.

What’s hero’s play?

I thought this was a jam, too. So I pushed my $300 in the middle. I expected a snap fold from the CO, since he didn't reraise my 4-bet.

I was wrong. He starts talking it out, almost folds, but then says "Would you do this with queens?" Uh oh.

After a minute, he turns his cards over to show KK. Double uh oh. Eventually he talks himself into a call.

The small blind has 99. We all agree to run it twice. To give you an idea how good he's been running, the first board runs out 378TK. The second board runs Kxxxx. Even though he didn't need to, he flopped a set on both runouts.

 

[Beakertwang]

He said the reason he decided I didn't have AA is because my UTG open of 6x was too small.

 

[suchj0sh]

Played fine, just a cooler. I guess the relevance of your open sizing would depend on the standard open for the game, but he’s just talking. No need to justify calling off with KK.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero should at least consider if the LAG villain is telling him something truthful. Is it possible that Hero has bet sizing tells? Villain says as much. It might be just table talk. But. . . . just in case, hero should be self-observant and ask if his sizing might be somehow telegraphing his hand strength.

Worth a look, just in case -=- DrStrange

 

[Beakertwang]

Hero should at least consider if the LAG villain is telling him something truthful. Is it possible that Hero has bet sizing tells? Villain says as much. It might be just table talk. But. . . . just in case, hero should be self-observant and ask if his sizing might be somehow telegraphing his hand strength.

Worth a look, just in case -=- DrStrange

Honestly, the fact that I opened UTG is a tell of strength. I would fold most weaker hands. I might limp call a speculative hand, but UTG I'm only raising stronger hands, and $5 or $6 is typical. in later position, I'll raise bigger over limpers. Of course, in our game, a $12 button raise will get 4 callers.

 

[Kain8]

Even if you flatted pre, I don't think you're getting away from the 3 7 8 flop given the stack sizes.

 

[Dbxela]

Pop it to $120

Too big, if we make it <$100 we can reraise if SB shoves.

 

[WedgeRock]