54 Inch Round Table Build Question

toddzilla11

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Hey guys, I've been lurking for a couple days trying to read up and learn, but wanted to make my first post and ask a couple of questions. I've tried the search function so if these questions have been answered before, sorry in advance!

Firstly, a bit of info about my potential build: I'm leaning towards a round 54" build, usually seating 6 but may be up to 8 at some points. I'd like to do 8 cup holders in the rail, and I'm considering doing a 3/4" raised rail. Thinking I'll use 60x60 sheets of plywood so I don't need to do any biscuit joins or anything of that nature, and planning on using a router with a large circle jig for the cuts. For this build though, I have a few questions on materials and things of that nature:
  • For a 54" round table, I think I might have trouble doing the rail upholstery without any seams. I have seen that YAT carries a 61" "Super Stretchy" black vinyl, and I'm wondering if this would be big enough for a table of this size? That leaves me about 3 inches of extra on each side, but the fact that it is "Super Stretchy" makes me wonder if I'd be able to pull it tight and get a bit more wiggle room. Does anyone have experience with this particular material? Or any advice for a vendor which carries something in a wide format that may be a better route? As this is going to be my first build, I'd really like to avoid having to do any sort of seam in the upholstery, as I have no experience in the area.
  • For the rail padding, I see that YAT seems to only carry the 1 inch thick stuff in 54" widths, which I don't think is going to be wide enough for a simple application in my situation. Is a seem in the foam doable? I'm wondering if doing two pieces of foam, and joining them at the points where there are cup holders would work, seeing as it will be covered with the vinyl as well. I'm planning on doing wood rings for the cup holders, so there will be support in that area as well.
  • For the gaming surface, I don't think I'll like the SSC that seems so popular. I've heard it can feel very rough. I'd like to go purple in color, and I'm considering going with the velveteen that YAT carries. I've see talk about gaming suede though, and that sounds luscious... I'm only seeing the "Reno Suede" on YAT though which seems super low priced... is this what everyone means by "gaming suede", or is there something else I should be looking for? Perhaps another vendor other that YAT?
I'm sure I'll have a billion more questions, but these are my first questions as I'm just in the planning/materials choosing phase. Any other tips and advice would be greatly appreciated as well! And if anyone has plans laying around for a round raised rail table I'd love to take a look, right now I'm thinking of just working off of the plans I've seen for an oval table with a raised rail. Hopefully I don't run into any pitfalls there either...

Thanks!
 

MoscowRadio

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I wish I could add more, but I can tell you that the Reno suede from YAT is definitely not gaming suede. I took a shot with it a long time ago, and it’s pretty terrible, hence the price. It has very little card glide, and the high grain is prone to catching the edges of cards and exposing them.

The 61” vinyl should definitely cover the 54” rail with no problem. As far as seams in the foam go, I don’t have much advice there. I would say that if they are cut straight and under the cup holders that it wouldn’t be much of an issue, but, again, I don’t have experience in this area. I’m sure other builders will chime in.

Best of luck, welcome, and share photos!
 

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Mine is a 56" round. My build and pictures are posted on here. Don't have time to dig for it.
 

Trihonda

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Friends don’t let friends build tables with foam seams.

You can actually cut your foam a bit oblong (on the long side) and once it’s cut in the middle, it can actually stretch to give you the width you need.

Actually I would lay your rail down on top of the uncut foam, then cut a small portion of the foam out on the inside of the rail, then stretch it out width wise, then use a sharpie to mark the final cuts.

My other advice is to really think about cup holders in the rail. I’d vote against. Locks in positions at the table, and admittedly you discuss hosting different numbers. People have strong feelings about where they put their drinks (else they feel in the way)... also on a curve, the rail real estate becomes more important.
 

BGinGA

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Although you can get away using 61" wide vinyl for a 54" table rail, going with a raised rail pretty much kills that idea imo. You won't have adequate coverage to handle the extra material required for the vertical rise plus the wrap-under needed for staples.

Opinions vary, but I find velvetine - of any kind - to be a horrible choice for a poker table playing surface. I like the looks, glide, and cost of of SSC (the feel doesn't bother me), but the absolute best material is real gaming cloth (available from T_Chan, for example). Feels great, looks great, works great, but that all comes at a 3x cost premium over SSC. Get samples, and make your own decision rather than rely on what works for others' tastes and budgets.

Seams in rail foam very rarely work out well, and are usually very noticeable. There are some tricks to help minimize the issue (diagonal cuts, glued together, covered with dryer sheets, etc.) but I'd avoid it if at all possible, unless you are also doing seams in your rail covering. Foam seams won't ever be perfect, and they ~will~ show.

I'd also avoid in-the-rail cupholders, for the reasons stated above.
 

Irish

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With regards to covering the rail, you can use the "seamless vinyl trick" that Quads posted over at sott keen's forum many years ago to cover the extra width:

the length on one side was ok, as i bought 6' of vinyl. so i started with the ends that were long enough.
Seamless_01.JPG

Seamless_02.JPG

with the material centered and stapled on the ends where i had the length covered, i then made some cuts as you normally do. with
the edges not stapled yet, i was free to now pull the material and get those extra few inches i needed to wrap 54" wide material around a 58" rail that is 3" tall with the foam. i essentially needed to wrap about 63 to 64" wide.

Seamless_03.JPG


same thing other side, and i have the rail outside edge done.
Seamless_04.JPG


Seamless_05.JPG


Seamless_06.JPG
 

DoubleEagle

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For the rail padding, I see that YAT seems to only carry the 1 inch thick stuff in 54" widths, which I don't think is going to be wide enough for a simple application in my situation. Is a seem in the foam doable? I'm wondering if doing two pieces of foam, and joining them at the points where there are cup holders would work, seeing as it will be covered with the vinyl as well. I'm planning on doing wood rings for the cup holders, so there will be support in that area as well.
I have put seams in rail foam many times. First, be very careful not to get any 3M 77 spray adhesive on the top of the foam as it will become very hard when dry. I cover the seam with cotton batting from Joann's. It's the stuff quilters use. Works very well.
 

toddzilla11

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Thanks for all the replies and friendly advice guys! I'm hearing all of the advice going against cup holders in the rails, but I feel like I've also read a lot of people are against slide-under holders that would be in the playing space. I don't really like the idea of using drink carts, and drinking is probably going to be a higher priority for some of my guests than the actual poker game, so cup holders in some fashion are going to be a must... I'll have to think on it for a bit, I don't hate slide-under cup holders, but have really liked the few tables I've played on where they were built into the rail. Although not having to cut holes and rings for them would be a nice bonus lol, and slide-under holders would also probably push me away from a raised rail which would save me an expensive sheet of 60x60 plywood.

For the materials, it looks like the tricks @Trihonda and @Irish have mentioned may get me where I need to be, so thanks for the info guys!

And as for the playing surface, sounds like I need to contact @T_Chan and get a quote! Thanks for confirming my suspicions, I will avoid the "Reno Suede" I saw on YAT for my playing surface.

By all means, any other comments and advice are still welcome, keep it coming guys! Thanks again!
 

Richard Cranium

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I built a 54" round some years ago. The whole build is in a thread with pics at the PMC forum.

For the rail foam, I tried to basically do the same thing but the foam would not do it without tearing. So I ordered a custom size piece from Foambymail.com. I was very happy with their foam and it wasn't really that expensive compared to YAT's offerings. I'd go that route again. in fact, I have ordered from them several times since. For the round table, I bought a 60" by 80" sheet of 1" thick foam for $45 delivered. Of course, that was 6 years ago so prices have most likely gone up.

I also understand that a lot of people don't like cup holders in the rails. I'm not really on either side, I don't mind them but I also like the slide under style too. I don't really have room for drink carts. For the round, I did the in rail cupholders and cut wood rings to keep them supported. I think I used Irish's tutorials on that part, he was very helpful with my table.
 

Richard Cranium

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I basically did the exact thing with the rail vinyl that Irish posted above. Here's my step by step on that in pictures.

Rail with foam glued on with spray adhesive


Laid it on top of the vinyl


Stapled the ends where I had more than enough length first, and then cut the middle so it can stretch and pull over the other sides...


Stretched the sides and finished up the outside. Put about 4522234556 staples in. That's a guesstimate.


I followed the basic idea of cutting the inside into a bunch of smaller segments. This way I could pull each and get a nice curve without wrinkles. I had 32 segments total by the time I made it all the way around.


This is what I wrote about this next step at the time, which I remember as being a bit stressful as the vinyl was really pulling back and tearing a bit: "It was a serious pain in the ass - I think the inside was harder to do then the outside, especially because I had stretched the vinyl to fit a larger circle on the outside. So once stapled, there was a LOT of stress on the remaining spots as they were being pulled back to the center still. I realized that if I trimmed off the excess the stress went away. This made the job a LOT easier."


All finished.


Then I cut the cupholders spots in a star pattern, stapled the flaps down and added the cupholders themselves.
 

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@Richard Cranium thank you so much for posting those pics, and that link/vendor! Exactly what I needed!
The vendor I used for my table was the Efoamstore in case you want to price shop between them. The padded suede I used from Your Auto Trim, which is super stretchy and worked for my 56" application. It got real tight pulling in some spaces, but if you have some help it could work. However, if you want to be safe you can order their 61" wide black vinyl and that would work for both dimensions.

I put cup holders in my table for the round, but not for my oval. If I did it again, I would still keep them in for the round as it makes it so much easier to tell where everyone's space is, which is important when you get 8 people sitting around a round table. Never had a drink spilled on that table, except by one jackass who put his drink on the table, and spilled before I could even yell at him to get it off.
 

Mr. Cheese

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My first two tables I didn't put cup holders in the rail and I have regretted it. I have a German Shepherd that likes to walk in between drink carts and knock them over so next octagon build is getting cup holders in the rail. With a round table maybe just going with slide under would be better though as you aren't locked into a seating position like an octagon table.
 

bsdunbar1

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I am in the camp that likes cup holders in the rail.
1) drinking IS going to happen
2) There is always that 1 guy who needs to take up 2 spots on the table. This gives them a visual of their "space" when playing a full table. All of my games are at least 2 tables so we always end up with a full final table. YMMV

I don't see playing shorthanded as an issue, I have never had someone confused where they should be when playing 7 people on my 10 person table.
I have to admit I like the look of a clean rail without cup holders, but when my kids were little I didn't buy a minivan because I preferred the looks over a corvette. #functionality
 

toddzilla11

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Well guys, it's been a month and a half, but I'm finally done with my build. Had a few issues here and there, but for the most part it went pretty smoothly! Thanks everyone for the helpful advice, it made a world of difference! Special thanks to @Richard Cranium your build thread over at PMC was terrific, and I followed it quite closely in my build.

Perhaps I'll post a build thread or photo album if I can figure out how, and have the permissions... either way, thanks a ton guys!
 

Mr. Cheese

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Congrats on finishing your build. I look forward to seeing some pictures!
 
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