1/2 hand. I think I played it wrong. (1 Viewer)

[Moxie Mike]

Do we want a call or not?

I don't mean this as a criticism but it really feels like some of you guys are way too risk averse.

NLHE is about maximizing your EV in any given situation. Sure - HERO can raise big and blow his opponents off their hands and drag a small pot uncontested. But if you're advocating that he win a small pot 100% of the time as opposed to stacking one or two opponents 70% of the time...

 

[DrStrange]

Hero needs to be thinking as much about the direct and implied odds offered to the draws rather than focusing on maximizing the profit from top pair type hands. A delicate dance to be sure - but be mindful the +/-$300 left behind is a significant issue. More so when half the deck is potentially scary.

We have to weigh the risk of dealing with reverse implied odds vs keeping the pot small / sweet enough to milk the players drawing nearly dead. There is a debate to be had about these sorts of decisions. It is highly villain dependent. But I would be very hard pressed to recommend flatting here hoping to capture an extra $50 while risking my whole stack to a draw getting a free or cheap card.

 

[kmccormick100]

I'm making it $80-100, if I think they button and BB will come along for $80 then that's what I choose. Obviously trying to get our stacks in on the turn on a clean card, shoving about a pot size bet is right. On a really dirty card I'm evaluating, but the raise on the flop my let you see the river for free anyway. Even against a turned flush or straight you have a lot of board pairing outs.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Hero needs to be thinking as much about the direct and implied odds offered to the draws rather than focusing on maximizing the profit from top pair type hands. A delicate dance to be sure - but be mindful the +/-$300 left behind is a significant issue. More so when half the deck is potentially scary.

Scary? I mean... we don't even know how this plays out past HERO's action. If HERO raises big on this flop and is called in 2 places AND a diamond peels I guess that's cause for concern. But against one opponent? Assuming HERO has position he can potentially check back an uncomfortable turn card.

We have to weigh the risk of dealing with reverse implied odds vs keeping the pot small / sweet enough to milk the players drawing nearly dead. There is a debate to be had about these sorts of decisions. It is highly villain dependent. But I would be very hard pressed to recommend flatting here hoping to capture an extra $50 while risking my whole stack to a draw getting a free or cheap card.

100% agreed. Honestly, I wish more of these threads would trend in this direction. It's less about the hand itself and more about overarching concepts. Live poker especially is about exploitative play and that comes down to opponent-specific dynamics.

 

[Frogzilla]

Trapping is a very overused play by some players who would very much benefit from not trapping ever, at all. However, it does have some merits to be used sparingly, and top set is usually one of the best candidates. It’s harder for your opponents to have a hand that calls you so you miss out on less value, and it’s so strong that you miss out on less equity from the opponents that would have folded.

That said, 3 ways, deep, against stations, with lots of draws…I don’t think it’s a good trap spot. Bump it up

Also, what was the plan pre if button did 3-bet? Were you gonna get disrespectful with the limp-4bet move? Don’t get me wrong, I like a little disrespect from time to time. It’s poker night

 

[grebe]

This is a hand from our biweekly 1/2 game. This game is a great game to play in. Lots of really loose players who play way too many hands and will call down in questionable spots. We are UTG2. UTG is one of the tighter players pre flop (other than me) but will make really bad call downs in spots and is quite passive. UTG is a break even player. Button is extremely loose and will rebuy multiple buy ins a night and is overall a losing player. Standard opening size is 10-12 $ and I have seen button 3 bet several under standard opens in the past few games. BB is unknown to me and has already doubled through UTG showing a weak 2 pair against UTG overpair. He is unknown to me but one of the other players mentioned to me that he is "good for the game action". Our image is tight and aggressive. Overall we are a winning player in this game, but I am not sure anyone notices.

Game is 8 handed

Stack sizes are 370$ effective. UTG opens for 9$ and we have . What would you like to do?

3 bet. Pick a size where we are likely to go head's up with UTG. Based on the description of this game, I am going to at least $40. It's a shame UTG made his open small, as we would like to get as much money in now to dissuade taking a flop 5 ways.

 

[grebe]

I 3 bet 95 % of the time here, but given Buttons tendency to 3 bet and my image, I actually flatted here.

Button flats 9$
SB folds 1$
BB flats 9$

37$ in the pot

Flop is

BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.
What would you like to do?

Raise on the larger side. There are plenty of draws out there to call. This pot is too small because of the flat prelop (HUGE mistake BTW).

Raise to $75

 

[grebe]

We have to weigh the risk of dealing with reverse implied odds vs keeping the pot small / sweet enough to milk the players drawing nearly dead. There is a debate to be had about these sorts of decisions. It is highly villain dependent. But I would be very hard pressed to recommend flatting here hoping to capture an extra $50 while risking my whole stack to a draw getting a free or cheap card.

Reverse implied odds are the Villain's problem here, not ours. Our hand is made....the V HAS to catch up to us because we have flopped the nuts.
-their implied odds are the draw that they have. If it's a flush draw, they have nine outs.
-their REVERSE implied odds are when they make their hand, but we improve to better. For example, the gives us a boat and them the flush.

NEVER EVER EVER trap with a hand that can easily be beat in a soft game. We do not have an impenetrable hand here. We still lose to straights and flushes. This is a 100 percent bet against 2 villains. Against one tricky villain, maybe a trap is worth considering. We need to bet for value and protection.

 

[Dugthefish]

I 3 bet 95 % of the time here, but given Buttons tendency to 3 bet and my image, I actually flatted here.

Button flats 9$
SB folds 1$
BB flats 9$

37$ in the pot

Flop is

BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.
What would you like to do?

$25-30 pre like 100% of the time.

As played, a smallish raise to $70 to hopefully clear out all but BB.

 

[toothpic]

@joker80 so what happened on the turn?

 

[JustinInMN]

Stack sizes are 370$ effective. UTG opens for 9$ and we have . What would you like to do?

Fold. UTG raise is always going to be AA in a strategy thread.

Okay kidding aside, pretty standard 3 bet spot, I am going to 25-30.
If you want to add some deception, you COULD flat expect the blinds to come in, and then make a big raise on the flop unless it comes A-hi.

But the 3-bet seems like the obvious choice.

 

[Coyote]

I 'm afraid that the turn was indeed a diamond, so @joker80 is now a monk in either Mount Athos or Tibet, and can't have a regular access to the internet.

 

[JustinInMN]

Flop is

BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.
What would you like to do?

My every instinct is raise this to something like 80 and hope either of the two players left are ready to play for stacks. It's very difficult to put BB on anything other than a combo-draw or at least the NFD since you have the kings so crushed. The times you do catch BB with a K though, you will have him drawing pretty much dead.

The one argument for flatting is the image of the button yet to act. Would he perceive a SB donk and a flat as weakness so that hero flatting would induce a raise?

But I think as hero, we need to start shoveling chips in now. Not that we are afraid to be called, but this probably represents a good chance to get stacks in.

 

[Hephestia]

I 3 bet 95 % of the time here, but given Buttons tendency to 3 bet and my image, I actually flatted here.

Button flats 9$
SB folds 1$
BB flats 9$

37$ in the pot

Flop is

BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.
What would you like to do?

Without the button in the hand, I like flatting here. We have position on the BB, and I don't think BB donk bets a draw. To me his bet says he either caught part of the flop, or a lot of it (in his opinion), and is trying to get either Hero or BTN to call with top pair. Given Hero hand is super underrepresented, I like the idea of letting BB continue to lead into us. However, with button still in, I agree with other posters, this isn't the place to trap/slow play: bump it up to $80.

 

[kmccormick100]

Turn?

 

[Coyote]

As a traumatised online micro-stakes player, I insist this flop is an all-in by the Hero.
My eyes have witnessed un-f*ckin-believable suckouts.
Again, this is a live game at higher stakes, but the button feels like an online player.

 

[raynmanas]

As a traumatised online micro-stakes player, I insist this flop is an all-in by the Hero.
My eyes have witnessed un-f*ckin-believable suckouts.
Again, this is a live game at higher stakes, but the button feels like an online player.

While I would probably bet smaller, I really don't hate an all-in here. You are basically announcing "I have you crushed, so if you want to suck out, you have to pay full price"

 

[joker80]

As I previously stated BB had led into us

Flop is :



BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.

I raised, perhaps not large enough? , to 50 $

Button folded
BB now re raises to 100 total

Now what would you like to do? We have

What range do you put him on?

 

[WedgeRock]

Pot is $187 before your call and it's heads-up? You're not folding. You're ahead, so calling and letting him see another card is no.

All signs lead to

 

[raynmanas]

 

[upNdown]

What range do you put him on?

I’m curious why it matters.

 

[Frogzilla]

As I previously stated BB had led into us

Flop is :



BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.

I raised, perhaps not large enough? , to 50 $

Button folded
BB now re raises to 100 total

Now what would you like to do? We have

What range do you put him on?

3 bet sure smells like sets, nut flush draw, QJ (especially combo draw), and maybe KT sometimes. AA rarely

I don’t think you have to be too balanced against this sort of post flop line. 4bet the last $250

 

[raynmanas]

I’m curious why it matters.

exactly my thought. we are so far beyond ranges - get your money in there.

 

[Frogzilla]

It’s a fair question generally because if you’re up against too many bluffs, there is merit to keeping those in. And flop 4-bet is a very unusual strategy. Or if you know opponent is extremely draw heavy, always calling flop, always barreling turn, well you can see the turn before you commit money and make a hero fold

I still think jammity jam jam though

 

[raynmanas]

It’s a fair question generally because if you’re up against too many bluffs

what bluffs are continuing if they get called here?

 

[Shaggy]

We started this hand with $370 effective... I didn't walk back through all the action to see what the remaining stacks are at this point... but likely ~$150 after the $100 call.

@Frogzilla makes a good point above about the villain's bluff range... and @raynmanas counters with what I'm thinking.

If you just call... the next street bluff isn't effective because there is so little remaining. Additionally if his draw card doesn't come in on the turn, the price when you jam on the turn is about right to draw again.

Jam now.

 

[kirchhausen]

Shovel it in immediately

 

[kmccormick100]

As I previously stated BB had led into us

Flop is :



BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.

I raised, perhaps not large enough? , to 50 $

Button folded
BB now re raises to 100 total

Now what would you like to do? We have

What range do you put him on?

That is a super small raise. Were you trying to price in both the BB and the Button knowing you have them crushed? If your goal was to either push one of the players out of the pot or to setup a <pot sized shove on a clean turn you gotta be making it at least $80.

This is a best case scenario after you make it $50, he's giving you a second chance to get your stack in more easily, trivial jam at this point - his 3b pretty much indicates he's not going anywhere. I put his range on 66 TT, QJdd, sometimes J9dd and 89dd maybe the three combos of KT and the occasional 6Ts if he's a little splashy.

 

[Legend5555]

Villain is saying he has a hand he wants to go with. So go with it. You either have him set over setted, set over two pair, or set over a combo draw. None of those are folding. Jam.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

As I previously stated BB had led into us

Flop is :



BB leads 20$ into 37.
UTG folds.

I raised, perhaps not large enough? , to 50 $

Button folded
BB now re raises to 100 total

Now what would you like to do? We have

What range do you put him on?

Jam
Hard and fast